Nibali at the same level as Froome/Contador?

[whittashau]

Do you think Froome would have avoided the crash that Nibali did on stage one?

 

[BlurryVII]

Do you think Froome would have avoided the crash that Nibali did on stage one?

Cavendish's one? I don't know, Froome still avoided it and finished 6th on that stage, just like AC and VN.
Scenario: VN is right next to Cav, in the spot of Gerrans, would he have avoided the crash? Certainly not. It is bad luck dude, I don't know what else to say. I wouldn't have said Nibali is bad at bike handling if he crashed, I wouldn't claim AC & CF don't know how to ride their bikes ...

Edit: If you are so sure of yourself, would you bet on Nibali not crashing until he retires?

 

[whittashau]

Crashes are often bad luck, but being an excellent bike handler will allow you to avoid crashes. Nibali has crashed and will crash again, but one has to be rather ignorant to ignore his superior bike handling skills to CF and AC. AC is a good bike handler, I'm not so sure about Froome. I feel he would have struggled immensely on the cobbles even without his prior crashes. He looks very awkward on a bike. That's not difficult to see

 

[giamakr1]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVzNFnOx-RA

 

[Carols]

I really don't see why everybody still into comparing different races, different targets, he gained 3'', he lost 5'', he is better, he has more watts, he has more panache and blablabla...can't you simply enjoy the race? I thought cycling was more that simple speculation and watching numbers. I thought it was more about dreaming big, working hard to achieve that, and respect who win but who's second (or last) too. I thought it was something like this...

Can we stop the woulda coulda shoulda with no place in reality and enjoy some great racing? Can we?

Nah they will keep on arguing for a year or so LOL!!! Plus Pretending there was No Competition. Gee the competition started I saw them!, they just didn't finish. Same with the Giro. Wiggins did start; descended like a girl and dropped out. So claims of no competition. Man can only beat those that Manage to Stay in the Race because he has already beaten those who started but didn't finish! Oh yeah and then there was the fact that he attacked the first week and was already in Yellow. We'll never know if those who left could have made up the time. It probably would have been a battle royale but we will never know because they Started but didn't Finish. Simples, but this will go on and on and on. I'll just stop following the thread

Like you I choose to enjoy the race. There were some great parcours, interesting battles for KOM, podium, daily stage wins. Good stuff, I enjoyed it!

But then I actually enjoy bike racing. Sometimes I wonder if many folks here actually do with all the whining that goes on

 

[Netserk]

I think those who cannot bear speculation are free to abandon the thread

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Lars Boom was the only one to actually drop Nibali in a direct battle this Tour.

Lars Boom will win all GT soon

 

[Netserk]

Lars Boom was the only one to actually drop Nibali in a direct battle this Tour.

Lars Boom will win all GT soon

Pinot and Contador as well.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

How exactly was Armstrong in 2004 more dominant than Nibali this year?

I don't know what I have been looking at, but I got into my head that Armstrong won by 9 minutes in 2004.

We have to go back to 1999 to find a more dominant win then.

 

[Netserk]

I don't know what I have been looking at, but I got into my head that Armstrong won by 9 minutes in 2004.

We have to go back to 1999 to find a more dominant win then.

More dominant? Same distance to 2nd place (only because Nibs, like Froome last year, lost time in the last stage) in 1999 and 2014.

Measured by cq-points, he is the most dominant since Hinault '81.

 

[Afrank]

I'm not saying he is a bad bike handler, but nothing shows he is better than a Quintana or Contador for instance.
It is an insignificant argument to use for comparisons and irrelevant quality in a GT. And Bike handling is NOT related to crashes whatsoever, you know, things like "Nibali is much better bike handler, he did beat AC & CF, they didn't even finish the race, it's part of being the most complete GT rider" are ridiculous, and don't make any sense to me. I call this bull****.
Look at Sagan, the guy handles his bike like nobody else in the peloton, he still crashed towards the end of the Tour. And already crashed in his career.
So stop already with your false assumptions, a crash is almost everytime a matter of BAD LUCK. That's it, end of story. Contador didn't crash more than Nibali in his career, so stop with the bullcrap.

Call me when Contador and Quintana do this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuGzA_o0HBc
Just looking at this one instance, it takes a enormous amount of confidence to do a bunny hop on a descent heading into a corner. And a large part of being a good bike handler is confidence.

Re bolded, completely untrue. Another video that shows good bike handling can save you a crash http://youtu.be/nLvTzk72vk4?t=4m45s

 

[Hugo Koblet]

More dominant? Same distance to 2nd place (only because Nibs, like Froome last year, lost time in the last stage) in 1999 and 2014.

Measured by cq-points, he is the most dominant since Hinault '81.

Measured in time between 1st and 2nd and time between 1st and 10th. Probably total time gained on the rest of the top 10 as well. How is the cq-stuff calculated?

 

[cineteq]

Call me when Contador and Quintana do this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuGzA_o0HBc
Just looking at this one instance, it takes a enormous amount of confidence to do a bunny hop on a descent heading into a corner. And a large part of being a good bike handler is confidence.

If you thought Nibali wasn't going to perform well in the cobbles, you just needed to watch this video.

 

[IndianCyclist]

If you thought Nibali wasn't going to perform well in the cobbles, you just needed to watch this video.

I remember Contador doing a bunny hop to the pavement from the road in 2010 cobbled stage. It was rain that proved his undoing.

 

[Escarabajo]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/another-tour-of-absences-tour-de-france-1973

There you have it. The Tour of Absences.

 

[cineteq]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/another-tour-of-absences-tour-de-france-1973

There you have it. The Tour of Absences.

This is so weak.

"In 1973 after four straight Tour wins, all time cycling great Eddy Merckx opted not to race - preferring to for a Giro d'Italia-Vuelta a España double - whilst two top Italians, reigning World Champion Marino Basso and Felice Gimondi, did not take part either, allegedly because their teams wished to retaliate because the French had not sent any top riders to the Giro in May"

FACT: Contador and Froome started 2014 TdF, need to say anything more?

 

[Jspear]

This is so weak.

"In 1973 after four straight Tour wins, all time cycling great Eddy Merckx opted not to race - preferring to for a Giro d'Italia-Vuelta a España double - whilst two top Italians, reigning World Champion Marino Basso and Felice Gimondi, did not take part either, allegedly because their teams wished to retaliate because the French had not sent any top riders to the Giro in May"

FACT: Contador and Froome started 2014 TdF, need to say anything more?

Let me say just so I don't get raked over the coals by VN fans: Nibali is the winner and he totally deserves his win. He was the strongest who stayed upright. Nibali did show two things at this Tour. He showed that he is better at the cobbles and that he is a better bike handler.

That being said - That is all he showed. He did not show that he can compete with them in the mountains because he did not. In fact he showed that AC could drop him on a climb that wasn't very long (however small the difference.) He did not show that he was a better TTist because he did not compete with them in this area.

The question being asked in this thread is not, "did Nibali beat AC and CF." We all know that he did. The question is, "is he at the same level." That's a very different question. You can be at a lower level than someone and beat them if they crash out (and remember crashing is not just about poor bike handling skills. There is bad luck involved. Seems like sometimes people forget that Nibali has crashed before. ) It is speculative....both sides should agree to this atleast. They didn't compete against each other for 3 weeks, so we actually don't know yet if Nibali is at their level.

 

[Netserk]

Measured in time between 1st and 2nd and time between 1st and 10th. Probably total time gained on the rest of the top 10 as well. How is the cq-stuff calculated?

Just like cq does. Days in yellow, stage placings, KOM and Green, and finally GC.

Add these numbers and you have his cq-score for the race.

 

[Miburo]

I hate that people use the second stage as an example that nibali was on par or better than Froome/Contador

You don't know anything of cycling if you think that stage says anything. First of all the stage isn't a MT stage and it's very suited for nibali.

Second of all, nibali rode away (on the flat) when they were looking at each other. Froome and contador were marking each other.

 

[Rollthedice]

I hate that people use the second stage as an example that nibali was on par or better than Froome/Contador

You don't know anything of cycling if you think that stage says anything. First of all the stage isn't a MT stage and it's very suited for nibali.

Second of all, nibali rode away (on the flat) when they were looking at each other. Froome and contador were marking each other.

Who used the second stage as an example? Why it was suited to Nibali, aren't other riders in the peloton more suited to win that kind of stage? Froome and Contador can watch each other for a week, they will never be able to win a stage like Sheffield. Nibali just did. It was a beautiful statement but it doesn't prove anything in this debate "who's better" so why use it? He wasn't even concerned to gain more seconds in the end. It was just a huge boost in morale. That being said I hope one day he can win a monument.

 

[Miburo]

Who used the second stage as an example? Why it was suited to Nibali, aren't other riders in the peloton more suited to win that kind of stage? Froome and Contador can watch each other for a week, they will never be able to win a stage like Sheffield. Nibali just did. It was a beautiful statement but it doesn't prove anything in this debate "who's better" so why use it? He wasn't even concerned to gain more seconds in the end. It was just a huge boost in morale. That being said I hope one day he can win a monument.

It was on a comment in a cyclingnews article and thumbed up by like 20 people, hence the reason i used it.

Nibali would have already won a monument if he was a bit smarter.

 

[cineteq]

Nibali would have already won a monument if he was a bit smarter.

OMG! Smarter? The only way to suceed is tryng and learning. By losing he wins => 2014 TdF winner

 

[icefire]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/another-tour-of-absences-tour-de-france-1973

There you have it. The Tour of Absences.

I didn't know that Nibali had thrashed everyone 2 years ago leading the race with 7 minutes before abandoning after falling from his bike.

 

[pigoonse]

Nibali would have already won a monument if he was a bit smarter.

What? This thread is about Nibali being at the same level as Froome/Contador, right? Did either AC or CF win a monument yet? Have a look at their palmares and compare. So far it appears Nibali is as smart or smarter than Froome. Hard to tell really because the all three are still active and have not finished their careers. My guess is that Nibali is smart enough to keep up with their levels of smartness.

 

[Afrank]

What? This thread is about Nibali being at the same level as Froome/Contador, right? Did either AC or CF win a monument yet? Have a look at their palmares and compare. So far it appears Nibali is as smart or smarter than Froome. Hard to tell really because the all three are still active and have not finished their careers. My guess is that Nibali is smart enough to keep up with their levels of smartness.

I agree, tactics wise, I would consider Nibali the best of the 3.