Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

[BullsFan22]

Patrick genuinely thinks this is what we all want to see. He is continually talking about how great it is to see this and how everybody loves to see it.

This is literally the last thing most biathlon fans want to see. We want to see races.

Patrick is extremely biased and often times clueless. You should know this by now.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Patrick is extremely biased and often times clueless. You should know this by now.

I disagree wholeheartedly.

I think he's extremely clueless and often times biased.

 

[Mayomaniac]

At least the Swedish skis died after the first lap. France had ridiculous fast skis on the last lap. Don't mention fluor wax.

The Austrian commentators were openly talking about it being a huge advantage with those conditions and it's still not banned...

 

[Mayomaniac]

Right now the tracks around Toblach are really busy.
Most of the Swedish team, the Germans, the Italians and the Austrians are training here for the WC.

 

[Discgear]

The Austrian commentators were openly talking about it being a huge advantage with those conditions and it's still not banned...

Interesting, no one mentioned it in the Swedish broadcast. I thought it was a gentlemen's agreement between the leading nations not to use fluor wax, but maybe that was only in XC-skiing?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Interesting, no one mentioned it in the Swedish broadcast. I thought it was a gentlemen's agreement between the leading nations not to use fluor wax, but maybe that was only in XC-skiing?

Look at the Austrians going 19/20 and losing a load of positions. There might be something to it (and of course biathlon being entirely in freestyle means barring an anomalous situation like the Fischer disaster in Le Grand Bornand, the prep difference isn't quite as pronounced or immediately noticeable as in classic) or it might just be frustration because their guys got the ski prep completely wrong, like when the commentary started throwing shade on the Finns in Zhangjiakou. It's hard to tell from an isolated accusation without further data points or elaboration from those making those statements on exactly what they mean (which might be hard to do without opening themselves up to consequence, so may be hard to get).

 

[Erwin]

New, purified, and PFOA-free fluorinated waxes (so called C6 fluorides) are still completely legal in biathlon and cross-country skiing, and you can buy them from many brands (see e.g. https://rex.fi/en/topcoatings/future-fluor-top-coatings), whereas the old, impure waxes with longer fluoride chains (so called C8 fluorides) are banned in both sports. At least the Finnish XC skiing waxing team and Finnish waxing companies like Rex maintain that there is zero difference in performance between the old, impure fluorinated waxes and the new ones, so there is no reason to use the banned ones. Remains to be seen if that's the complete truth, but I don't think there is any systematic, wide-spread cheating with illegal fluoride waxes. The benefits seem too small (or non-existent) in comparison with the risks.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Look at the Austrians going 19/20 and losing a load of positions. There might be something to it (and of course biathlon being entirely in freestyle means barring an anomalous situation like the Fischer disaster in Le Grand Bornand, the prep difference isn't quite as pronounced or immediately noticeable as in classic) or it might just be frustration because their guys got the ski prep completely wrong, like when the commentary started throwing shade on the Finns in Zhangjiakou. It's hard to tell from an isolated accusation without further data points or elaboration from those making those statements on exactly what they mean (which might be hard to do without opening themselves up to consequence, so may be hard to get).

Nah, they said before the start of the women's race that fluo wax would be a huge advantage, so at that point there still wasn't any real frustration.
That said, it is kinda weird, LTH was skiing really well in the mixed relay (like the whole team) and the next 2 races her skiing speed is way down.

 

[BullsFan22]

German xc team was accused of the same last year at the Olympics, particularly with the success of the women’s relay and team sprint. Personally I doubt it. The Germans also had incredible skis in Seefeld, in 2019. And then for some reason had sub optimal skis on home snow two years later.

 

[Bavarianrider]

New, purified, and PFOA-free fluorinated waxes (so called C6 fluorides) are still completely legal in biathlon and cross-country skiing, and you can buy them from many brands (see e.g. https://rex.fi/en/topcoatings/future-fluor-top-coatings), whereas the old, impure waxes with longer fluoride chains (so called C8 fluorides) are banned in both sports. At least the Finnish XC skiing waxing team and Finnish waxing companies like Rex maintain that there is zero difference in performance between the old, impure fluorinated waxes and the new ones, so there is no reason to use the banned ones. Remains to be seen if that's the complete truth, but I don't think there is any systematic, wide-spread cheating with illegal fluoride waxes. The benefits seem too small (or non-existent) in comparison with the risks.

I highly, highly doubt there is no difference between fluor and non fluor waxes in wet conditions. From personal experience, it is a night and day difference. Of course, on the high end world cup level they have access to different things than us avergae Joes have . However, I still doubt that there`s no difference at all anymore.
The whole flur ban is just a nightmare for cross country skiing /biathlon. It will never ever be possible to control it probably.

 

[BigCoward]

Has anyone ever been as hot a favourite for a relay as the Norwegian men currently in biathlon history? (Looking at you Libertine seguros).

 

[Erwin]

I highly, highly doubt there is no difference between fluor and non fluor waxes in wet conditions. From personal experience, it is a night and day difference. Of course, on the high end world cup level they have access to different things than us avergae Joes have . However, I still doubt that there`s no difference at all anymore.
The whole flur ban is just a nightmare for cross country skiing /biathlon. It will never ever be possible to control it probably.

Did you read and understand my post? Of course there is a difference between fluor and non fluor waxes (in pretty much all conditions, but especially in wet ones), but that's not the question at all. The question is old, banned long-chained "C8" fluor waxes vs new, completely legal short-chained "C6" fluor waxes that are allowed by FIS and IBU and everybody uses until a complete ban on fluoride waxes is implemented, see e.g:
https://www.biathlonworld.com/news/fluor-wax-ban-most-postponed/16TTqBr6jxVtskQrl4ACVN and https://www.fis-ski.com/en/internat...ostpones-full-implementation-of-fluor-wax-ban

 

[BigCoward]

Including relays JTB has won 18 of his last 20 races (11 in a row). Other than more individual races what else can be done to impact his dominance? He's only 29, I can't watch this for the next 3 or 4 years.
He's already won 14 individual races this year, 2 more than his brother has won in his whole career.

 

[YavorD]

Has anyone ever been as hot a favourite for a relay as the Norwegian men currently in biathlon history? (Looking at you Libertine seguros).

I'm too young to have watched this but maybe some of the German teams in the 90s with Ricco Gross, Frank Luck, Sven Fischer and Peter Sendel/Mark Kirchner.
But back in the day depth was probably bigger than today with Russia and Belarus besides Norway having really strong teams, so not sure if Germany has been such a big favorite.


As for this year, it's scary to think that Dale, being 6th in the WC overall, while doing a strong world championship won't even be in that relay. Norway could legitimately build probably 2 or 3 teams and each of them would have a decent chance for the win.

 

[BigCoward]

Biathlon Hall of fame, first 4 nominees were OEB, Wilhelm, Henkel and Fischer.

Maybe Fourcade got overlooked due to recently retiring, but other than OEB they don't feel like they should have been the 4 inaugural entries.

 

[BigCoward]

Since its the world championships I've been looking back at past events from before I got into biathlon on wiki.
Maybe this should be in the bizarre sports results thread, but in 2005 Kristiansen missed 3 in the final shoot in the mass start and still won, how far ahead was she?

 

[BigCoward]

As for this year, it's scary to think that Dale, being 6th in the WC overall, while doing a strong world championship won't even be in that relay. Norway could legitimately build probably 2 or 3 teams and each of them would have a decent chance for the win.

Boe, Boe, Anderson, Stroemsheim
Laegreid, Christiansen, Dale, Bjoentegaard

 

[Mayomaniac]

I looked at the laps in Planica and they look good. The individual start races are interesting. 2 different laps, the women will do 1 on the first and 1 on the second, the men an additional one on the 2nd. So at least for the women's race nobody will benefit from skiing behind anyone and even in the men's race it's gonna be hard for the favourites to get lucky.
The 7.15km lap for the 50km race also looks hard, really long uphill sections, but never absurdly steep. Looks perfect for Iivo (knocks on wood).

Edit:
1,088m of altitude gain for the men's skiathlon (half of it for the women), 1,869m for the 50km men's race, 590m for the 15km race, 385m for the 10km race and 1,088m for the 30km women's race. Even the sprint course features 49m of altitude gain and a longer climb with am altitude gain of 32m, they all look hard.

 

[BigCoward]

He missed one on shoot 2, there's a chance. Though he is only 8 seconds down on QFM at 8.6 despite him shooting 0,0.
Laeigreid is clear through shoot 2 but still only has 19 seconds on Boe.

Boe has 2 misses after 3 shoots. So probably screwed now, if Samuelsson and/or Laegreid can go clear.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

He almost missed another two there, but the gold is still in reach if QFM and Samuelsson or others mess up.

 

[Norbea]

JTB is just flying

 

[KZD]

Loool Johannes Bø just caught Fillon Maillet that started 2:30 minutes ahead

 

[search]

Loool Johannes Bø just caught Fillon Maillet that started 2:30 minutes ahead

he was first to finish the race even. With start number 11

 

[BigCoward]

He might as well win the mass start now. I'd rather someone else had won today. But nobody has ever won the 4 individual races so at least we would be seeing greatness. They should leave him out of the relay though, for the lols.

 

[BigCoward]

He should go to the XC champs and get a couple of extra medals.