NovitzkyÂ’s European vacation

[python]

I'm sorry, forgive me, but what do you THINK he'll be doing there? Each step of the way, you ask for the purpose or what he expects to find. Yesterday you pondered why an FDA investigator is conducting such an investigation. Each time someone explains it fully, you just come up with a few more questions. How about you first acknowledge some understanding about the purpose of the investigation and then we'll talk about AFLD, ok?

I'm no troll, but I can smell the bait in your pocket.

if you have nothing to add or dont have a clue about a question asked it's better that you keep out.

the way you perverted, distorted and twisted a simple question - what else in addition to what has been known can be expected - tells me you are a troll. if your nose smells something, it's the odor of your own making.

 

[BotanyBay]

so, we have this novi trip becoming a reality but what exactly will he be doing there ?

He'll be asking questions about doping

we already discussed the 99 samples to death, what other evidence do the french have ?

I'd imagine that's why he's going there. To ask them what evidence they might have.

everything else will require the uci cooperation and we know it's not coming.

You have no idea what kind of cooperation they'll give. And you have no idea if they'll even be asked to offer any. Actually, since Interpol is involved, it might be a better sign for them if they ARE invited to come answer some questions. That whole musical chairs game can be tough to survive. And did you ever consider that he might be going to France to share things that he has learned? The world does not always revolve around the USA.

 

[BotanyBay]

the way you perverted, distorted and twisted a simple question - what else in addition to what has been known can be expected - tells me you are a troll. if your nose smells something, it's the odor of your own making.

I think you intentionally ask stupid questions instead of being direct and stating your real opinion about matters. You use passive-aggressive techniques via suggestion and innuendo so that you don't actually have to stand behind a potentially bold statement.

So if you think Novitzky's trip to France is a waste, why not come right out and say that? You already know the answers to the idiotic questions you pose, so why (really) do you ask? Let's skip the theatrics and just reveal your real intentions, ok?

 

[python]

He'll be asking questions about doping

thanks, it take a genius to deduce that... or a clueless or a troll

I'd imagine that's why he's going there. To ask them what evidence they might have.

and this is even more brilliant than the above.

You have no idea what kind of cooperation they'll give.

i never pretended to know. that's why i asked a specific question. you in your brilliance (or carelessness) totally missed.

And you have no idea if they'll even be asked to offer any.

and i never asked that. you have no idea what's been asked though it was a simple question. troll.

so once again, if you have no clue or an answer just keep out and don't destroy threads.

i asked, for people to entertain any specific information novi might get in addition the already known and listed by me in an earlier post: the 99 samples, oclaesp investigation into medical waste etc.

your contributions are a waste.

 

[Anonymous]

now lance armstrong is in the same league as saddam hussein?

wow...

what's next? hitler moral equivalence?

No, a Hitler testicular equivalence...

 

[Race Radio]

so, we have this novi trip becoming a reality but what exactly will he be doing there ?

we already discussed the 99 samples to death, what other evidence do the french have ?

off the top of my head i can think of just few more things

- showergate leftover samples including texas hair
- 2009 tour oclaesp investigation into medical waste
- other leads that were part of the target testing intelligence in 2010 tour
?????????
everything else will require the uci cooperation and we know it's not coming.

Yes to all.

OCLAESP has been communicating with Novitzky for close to 6 months. They have held off on announcing charges on the transfusion kits as they want to see how the Federal case develops as this may allow them to expand the scope of each of their cases.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes to all.

OCLAESP has been communicating with Novitzky for close to 6 months. They have held off on announcing charges on the transfusion kits as they want to see how the Federal case develops as this may allow them to expand the scope of each of their cases.

The terrifying part is going to be, if there are charges that warrant a trial, the discovery phase. That will take years from the way things appear now. You won't see anything resolve in this for quite a long time unless big Tex cops a plea.

 

[BotanyBay]

i asked, for people to entertain any specific information novi might get in addition....

blah blah blah

Look, people aren't as stupid as you assume they are. We all know this investigation is about Lance, and we all know that AFLD has offered to provide his samples. You do too. So, please give us the basic respect afforded to most human beings and quit splitting hairs and hiding behind your passive aggressive questions. I see your Avatar, so when you ask such a dumb question, I already know your angle. You're not the slightest bit interested in anyone's answer. Not that any answer is required, because we all know why he's in France and we all know why he wants to meet with AFLD. You do too. Few others know what else they might give him, because if they did, we'd all know it by now too.

You ask lots of passive-aggressive questions, but offer few unsolicited opinions of your own. So how about it, buddy?

About this whole "splitting hairs" thing on your questions... I don't dislike you, I pity you.

 

[python]

Yes to all.

OCLAESP has been communicating with Novitzky for close to 6 months. They have held off on announcing charges on the transfusion kits as they want to see how the Federal case develops as this may allow them to expand the scope of each of their cases.

thank for a a constructive contribution that goes to the heart of my attempts to entertain a substantive discussion.

as was mentioned in another article (and is now the subject of a separate thread), later this weak oclaesp police officials are scheduled to meet with novi and his crew. it must be about the transfusion kits etc.

i also believe that armstrong's urine samples (other than '99) stored in lndd can be identified without the uci cooperation. i would not be surprised if this is another subject novi will attempt to cover.

 

[python]

blah blah blah
Look, people aren't as stupid as you assume they are.

i don't have to assume anything about you. you have exposed yourself and still are wasteing the bandwidth and trying to hijack the topic. are you not learning after having 2 of your troll threads shut down ? troll.

even after the substantive discussion is starting to take shape. reported.

 

[python]

thank for a a constructive contribution that goes to the heart of my attempts to entertain a substantive discussion.

as was mentioned in another article (and is now the subject of a separate thread), later this weak oclaesp police officials are scheduled to meet with novi and his crew. it must be about the transfusion kits etc.

i also believe that armstrong's urine samples (other than '99) stored in lndd can be identified without the uci cooperation. i would not be surprised if this is another subject novi will attempt to cover.

moved to continue constructive discussion.

 

[lean mean &green]

Amgen's motives

I can't remember their names, but oddly enough, SEVERAL current or former professional (or top amateur) cyclists have risen through the ranks at Amgen.

Not only do they sponsor a race, but a top masters team with perhaps the highest win-ratio of any current team worldwide (amateur or pro).

Amgen's interest in placing itself next to cycling is tough to figure out. It's not like one goes to their oncologist and requests their favorite brand of blood cell booster. My guess is that they're trying to make themselves visible to the docs who follow cycling.

conspiracy theory alert!

is amgen, in an indirect way, pushing EPO for off label use via these sponsorships? possibly as an anti-aging medicine for aging athletes, wannabes, or people seeking a little better energy level in the coming years similar to the way testo is becoming an accepted treatment for low T (which used to be called getting old) ...the pharmaceutical industry has a lot to gain by closing down the black-market and simultaneoulsy opening the door for off label use. A LOT to gain.

 

[sniper]

moved to continue constructive discussion.

Just something I was wondering (not sure if it fits this thread): who thinks that Novitzky's investigations will at some point converge with, or somehow be an incentive to re-open, the Fuentes/operacion Puerto-case?

 

[BotanyBay]

conspiracy theory alert!

is amgen, in an indirect way, pushing EPO for off label use via these sponsorships? possibly as an anti-aging medicine for aging athletes, wannabes, or people seeking a little better energy level in the coming years similar to the way testo is becoming an accepted treatment for low T (which used to be called getting old) ...the pharmaceutical industry has a lot to gain by closing down the black-market and simultaneoulsy opening the door for off label use. A LOT to gain.

I'm not willing to call a conspiracy here. Not even close. But I will admit to being perplexed as to why Amgen chooses this method of PR. Their execs either have a sick fascination with the doping controversy, oddly don't mind associating with it or are completely oblivious to it (which I doubt).

Amgen is a respected pharma company. My spouse has worked in pharma marketing and the last thing a company like this wants is a situation where off-label use is encouraged. Because if a breakdown in the custody chain is later found to exist at Amgen, their entire business would be at risk.

I think they are targeting the legitimate docs who happen to be cycling fans. Pharma companies are no longer giving docs the free vacations in Hawaii and box seats at the Lakers anymore, so they have to find new ways to reach those who write scripts.

 

[BotanyBay]

Just something I was wondering (not sure if it fits this thread): who thinks that Novitzky's investigations will at some point converge with, or somehow be an incentive to re-open, the Fuentes/operacion Puerto-case?

Not me. Not a chance that will happen.

 

[python]

Just something I was wondering (not sure if it fits this thread): who thinks that Novitzky's investigations will at some point converge with, or somehow be an incentive to re-open, the Fuentes/operacion Puerto-case?

i's a good question but personally, i don't see the novitzky investigation kicking he op back. the connection is via the riders who were both the fuentes clients and the discovery/usps riders. at this minute i can only think of hamilton and he's been cooked already. another hurdle is spanish law not being applicable retroactively.

 

[lean mean &green]

I'm not willing to call a conspiracy here. Not even close. But I will admit to being perplexed as to why Amgen chooses this method of PR. Their execs either have a sick fascination with the doping controversy, oddly don't mind associating with it or are completely oblivious to it (which I doubt).

Amgen is a respected pharma company. My spouse has worked in pharma marketing and the last thing a company like this wants is a situation where off-label use is encouraged. Because if a breakdown in the custody chain is later found to exist at Amgen, their entire business would be at risk.

I think they are targeting the legitimate docs who happen to be cycling fans. Pharma companies are no longer giving docs the free vacations in Hawaii and box seats at the Lakers anymore, so they have to find new ways to reach those who write scripts.

by off-label use i mean prescribed by licensed professionals but for different uses than it was approved for. ie amgen still makes their money with the proper chain of custody without having to spend the money for research/trials/approval of other uses. but to confirm some of what your "expert" has said, i just got off the phone with a very close friend who is a drug rep. he says promoting off-label use is a bigger no-no than i would have thought. of course a company like amgen can promote any community or athletic event they want, it's hard not to feel conflicted about their choice however. i still think that their's potential for EPO or similar RBC boosters to become an accepted component of an anti-aging regimen tho (they would just have to go ahead and spend the money for the research/trials/approval of this type of use).

EDIT: testo might boost red blood a little all by itself. i'm gonna have to think about this one a little more. to be continued...

 

[BotanyBay]

just got off the phone with a very close friend who is a drug rep. he says promoting off-label use is a bigger no-no than i would have thought. i still think that their's potential for EPO or similar RBC boosters to become an accepted component of an anti-aging regimen tho (they would just have to go ahead and spend the money for the research/trials/approval of this type of use).

What is rarely mentioned in forums like these, is that... OK, we have the chain of custody, which is tightly controlled, but in America (and I imagine in many other nations), doctors are given WIDE latitude to prescribe medications for uses outside of their intended indications. Almost any way they see fit so long as they are following medical rules. Unless they're using it in a contraindicatory way, and so long as they're not violating the standard of care, they're free to use it.

I actually have no idea what's considered "legal" in terms of a doctor working with a patient and using such medications. One place that we need to work to squash this problem is with the docs themselves. We need to get rid of the doping docs and take their licenses away.

 

[python]

What is rarely mentioned in forums like these, is that... OK, we have the chain of custody, which is tightly controlled

are you confused again ? what the chain of urine/blood sample custody got to do with the corrupt doping doctors ?

but in America (and I imagine in many other nations), doctors are given WIDE latitude to prescribe medications for uses outside of their intended indications. Almost any way they see fit so long as they are following medical rules. Unless they're using it in a contraindicatory way, and so long as they're not violating the standard of care, they're free to use it.

again can anyone point out what's news in that tirade. s doping doc is a doping doc b/c he is ready to misuse his profession, genius.

 

[ferryman]

so, we have this novi trip becoming a reality but what exactly will he be doing there ?

we already discussed the 99 samples to death, what other evidence do the french have ?

off the top of my head i can think of just few more things

- showergate leftover samples including texas hair
- 2009 tour oclaesp investigation into medical waste
- other leads that were part of the target testing intelligence in 2010 tour
?????????
everything else will require the uci cooperation and we know it's not coming.

I can't add anything to your list but I wonder about the UCI thing here.

Surely Novitzky will be interested in the alleged UCI cover up of LA's Tour De Suisse 2001 EPO positive. AND subsequent monetary gifts.

 

[flicker]

Does Mr. Smudgy have something to do with Lances alleged doping? Is that why Novitzky is on duty in the land of napoleon. Perhaps wee-man has info in the red zone.

 

[Oldman]

Does Mr. Smudgy have something to do with Lances alleged doping? Is that why Novitzky is on duty in the land of napoleon. Perhaps wee-man has info in the red zone.

I'm having a problem translating all of that. I'm the obtuse one this time...

 

[flicker]

Sorry I , I wanted to know if Mr. Novizky has interviewed Mr. Hanky in Paris and if Mr. Hanky will be tetifying at the trial. Mr. Smudgy was a faux pas on my part as Mr. Smudgy is only a fraction of the full Monty of Mr. Hanky.

 

[flicker]

I do not know if Mr. Novizky is a foot soldier but why has he not been asked to investigate the Bof A here in the states for Mortgage irregularities. I am not trying to take the heat off of Mr. Tex it is just that it looks like many here have lost their homes unnescesserily. Highly irregular forclosures, I am sure that it has happened right in San Mateo County California.

 

[tubularglue]

I am thinking Italy next then Switzerland

Is bruyneel back from vacation yet?