Official "be nice" Lance Armstrong thread

[padyakpinoy]

interesting point- but resuming the entire situation, i'd say it this way: the "comebacks killed Astana" -not only Armstrong's but know with Vinokourov forcing his way back to the team. I really believe that JB lacked the leadership to prevent all this mess from the beginning, and now he's going to pay the price of Contador's departure

Vino back with Astana at Vuelta?
http://velonews.com/article/96153/andy-schleck-basso-headline-strong-vuelta-field

 

[Carboncrank]

I used to criticize bro deal and TFF for calling LA a cancer to the sport, but he has been a cancer to Astana, he has destroyed the best cycling team by just being himself, frankly he and JB are just plain dumb. Do you LA lovers still think that JB is a genius, because what he has done or is going to do, is make one of the dumbest management mistake in sport since Boston traded Babe Ruth to the Yankees, while I'm not calling Contador Babe Ruth, the fact is contador is 26 and can only get better and lance is 38 and can only get worse, Contador can win barring any unfortunate circumstance win at least 4 more grand tours and I doubt LA can win a pro tour stage race, so I'm not even going to mention a grand tour. I don't think that radio shack can last more than two years with the age of that team I probably fit in the average age of that team. Amsterhammer, If you're going to say you're not going to post in this thread at least try to last a day.

Oh yea, everything is Lances fault. The non payment of salaries? Lances fault.
The return of Vino? Lances fault.
Johan has said he will not manage a team with Vino on it. That puts him out of Astana. I doubt that AC wants to stay either.
Watch who goes with Johan, and who comes to Radio Shack if you want to see if people in the sport still think he's a great DS.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Foxxy - I should point out the 'ignorant' post you describe was full of sarcasm.

You may not have read the opening post here on this 'new' thread but an effort is being made to not insult other forum members.

You are right ,
but i didnt start the fire. I wasnt calling out "Contadonk". So it is my right to call someone who cheats biggest is the biggest cheater, it should be said and its certainly not AC You know who i mean

 

[Anonymous]

Oh yea, everything is Lances fault. The non payment of salaries? Lances fault.
The return of Vino? Lances fault.
Johan has said he will not manage a team with Vino on it. That puts him out of Astana. I doubt that AC wants to stay either.
Watch who goes with Johan, and who comes to Radio Shack if you want to see if people in the sport still think he's a great DS.

A half eaten corn muffin could win the Tour with the strongest rider on its team. You guys act like it is just brilliant tactical sense to have the strongest guy ride faster than everyone else.

 

[BYOP88]

A half eaten corn muffin could win the Tour with the strongest rider on its team. You guys act like it is just brilliant tactical sense to have the strongest guy ride faster than everyone else.

If the hog is the greatest DS ever!!!! Wouldn't he have directed Disco to the TdF win in 06?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Oh yea, everything is Lances fault. The non payment of salaries? Lances fault.
The return of Vino? Lances fault.
Johan has said he will not manage a team with Vino on it. That puts him out of Astana. I doubt that AC wants to stay either.
Watch who goes with Johan, and who comes to Radio Shack if you want to see if people in the sport still think he's a great DS.

When Johan took over the team he said he had a clause in his contract to not have to take certain riders - Vino, Kaskeshkin, and Andeas Kloden!!

The riders contracts are with JB's company Olympus SARL - not the Astana team! So if JB goes to RS than anyone with a valid contract through 2010 goes too.
Also Contador has a contract with JB through 2010 but....

 

[elapid]

I really believe that JB lacked the leadership to prevent all this mess from the beginning, and now he's going to pay the price of Contador's departure

+1. If Bruyneel had stated from the start who was the team leader then everyone else would have pulled their heads in. He didn't, it spiralled out of control, and, as you said, he has forever lost the best stage racer in the peloton at the moment.

 

[ggusta]

When Johan took over the team he said he had a clause in his contract to not have to take certain riders - Vino, Kaskeshkin, and Andeas Kloden!!

The riders contracts are with JB's company Olympus SARL - not the Astana team! So if JB goes to RS than anyone with a valid contract through 2010 goes too.
Also Contador has a contract with JB through 2010 but....

why not kloden?

 

[Cobber]

If the hog is the greatest DS ever!!!! Wouldn't he have directed Disco to the TdF win in 06?

True... you would also think, if he didn't win he would get somebody in the top 10!

 

[Dr. Maserati]

why not kloden?

Klodens links to the Freibrg University...... how can I put this - he was a part-time student there!

If you need more info come to my sugery at The Clinic

 

[Hugh Januss]

Vino back with Astana at Vuelta?
http://velonews.com/article/96153/andy-schleck-basso-headline-strong-vuelta-field

So, if Vino beats all the other second tier GC guys, with one of the other Astana directors in the car and JB still on the payroll, will that count towards Johan's total as "Very Bestest Director of All Time"

 

[Dr. Maserati]

+1. If Bruyneel had stated from the start who was the team leader then everyone else would have pulled their heads in. He didn't, it spiralled out of control, and, as you said, he has forever lost the best stage racer in the peloton at the moment.

Finally - imo this whole AC v LA mess is the product of JB trying to hedge his bets before the Tour.
I have heard the statement that he is the best DS in the world - yes, I watch Versus. Now -one cannot fault his palmares and imo he has a pretty good eye for talent to build his team, appears to be a shrewd businessman - however he was just the General Manager of USP/Disco while LA was the CEO.

This year was the year we were to see his abilities - and he failed.
Remember LA's reaction when JB announced that AC was the team leader - La said it was news to him.

All along JB was hoping LA could pull it off but ultimately when AC went up the road - against the 'teams' plans it was time to finally admit what most objective people knew, that AC was the stronger rider.
This is nothing against LA- as 3 rd was still an exceptional performance.
He was not able to control his two star riders and he has now lost Contador.

 

[Nick C.]

I found it funny that in 2005 they were mocking T-Mobile for their multiple leaders, but now they talking about having multiple contenders as being a good thing.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Finally - imo this whole AC v LA mess is the product of JB trying to hedge his bets before the Tour.
I have heard the statement that he is the best DS in the world - yes, I watch Versus. Now -one cannot fault his palmares and imo he has a pretty good eye for talent to build his team, appears to be a shrewd businessman - however he was just the General Manager of USP/Disco while LA was the CEO.

This year was the year we were to see his abilities - and he failed.
Remember LA's reaction when JB announced that AC was the team leader - La said it was news to him.

All along JB was hoping LA could pull it off but ultimately when AC went up the road - against the 'teams' plans it was time to finally admit what most objective people knew, that AC was the stronger rider.
This is nothing against LA- as 3 rd was still an exceptional performance.
He was not able to control his two star riders and he has now lost Contador.

I don't think he was hedging his bets, I think he just couldn't say no to Armstrong. It was clear before the tour who had the best chance of winning. Not just within Astana, but overall. It was crystal clear by the time stage 1 was done.

 

[Publicus]

Finally - imo this whole AC v LA mess is the product of JB trying to hedge his bets before the Tour.
I have heard the statement that he is the best DS in the world - yes, I watch Versus. Now -one cannot fault his palmares and imo he has a pretty good eye for talent to build his team, appears to be a shrewd businessman - however he was just the General Manager of USP/Disco while LA was the CEO.

This year was the year we were to see his abilities - and he failed.
Remember LA's reaction when JB announced that AC was the team leader - La said it was news to him.

All along JB was hoping LA could pull it off but ultimately when AC went up the road - against the 'teams' plans it was time to finally admit what most objective people knew, that AC was the stronger rider.
This is nothing against LA- as 3 rd was still an exceptional performance.
He was not able to control his two star riders and he has now lost Contador.

I don't think he was hedging his bets, I think he just couldn't say no to Armstrong. It was clear before the tour who had the best chance of winning. Not just within Astana, but overall. It was crystal clear by the time stage 1 was done.

I agree with both of you. JB didn't have effective control over the team, but most notably Lance Armstrong. The fact that JB was appearing to hedge on the leadership issue was to me writing on the wall--since EVERYONE knew who the stronger rider was at the team presentations and if they didn't they definitely knew after Stage 1.

 

[fulcrum]

Did I say drop? Where did I say drop? I said "Don't attack!" So who said "Why didn't he (Lance)?" You! And now you're saying yes, he did. Dude, where do you get your facts? There's no point in arguing with you.

If Andy was really stronger, then what did he do on the ITT vs Lance? 25 vs 38? Wow, that makes Andy stronger?

Calm down son. Try to make some sense when you post. When you do, I will answer your questions.

 

[Hugh Januss]

If Andy was really stronger, then what did he do on the ITT vs Lance? 25 vs 38? Wow, that makes Andy stronger?

LOL Thats like saying if Armstrong is so good why can't he beat Cavendish.

 

[Frenchfried007]

Oh, jeez. Simmer down, I was poking fun while agreeing with you. I am sorry if it made you selfconscious.

Simmer down? Quite laughable. Did you see my LOL and my LMAO. Guess I really laugh a lot when I'm not "simmered down." Guess I just will sit here and stay "selfconscious" as we can't all rise to your level of forum fame.

You might want to read your first post to me and decide who needs to "simmer down." You might want to also see how many posts are here from me versus yourself. Then again a person with your level of forum fame has to keep up a rep. So please continue to let me know how my life is going. We've entered grammer and now therapy all in a drivel of a forum. Wow, simmer down, really. I guess I was really out there. You really have me laughing now. Please continue on with your fame here. I sure you have established a high level of respect. Can't wait to here the next quoted reply.

 

[ggusta]

Can't wait to here the next quoted reply.

Gosh this thread is dull when I'm not posting.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Simmer down? Quite laughable. Did you see my LOL and my LMAO. Guess I really laugh a lot when I'm not "simmered down." Guess I just will sit here and stay "selfconscious" as we can't all rise to your level of forum fame.

You might want to read your first post to me and decide who needs to "simmer down." You might want to also see how many posts are here from me versus yourself. Then again a person with your level of forum fame has to keep up a rep. So please continue to let me know how my life is going. We've entered grammer and now therapy all in a drivel of a forum. Wow, simmer down, really. I guess I was really out there. You really have me laughing now. Please continue on with your fame here. I sure you have established a high level of respect. Can't wait to here the next quoted reply.

So, would that be "apology accepted" or not?

 

[Carboncrank]

Finally - imo this whole AC v LA mess is the product of JB trying to hedge his bets before the Tour.
I have heard the statement that he is the best DS in the world - yes, I watch Versus. Now -one cannot fault his palmares and imo he has a pretty good eye for talent to build his team, appears to be a shrewd businessman - however he was just the General Manager of USP/Disco while LA was the CEO.

This year was the year we were to see his abilities - and he failed.
Remember LA's reaction when JB announced that AC was the team leader - La said it was news to him.

All along JB was hoping LA could pull it off but ultimately when AC went up the road - against the 'teams' plans it was time to finally admit what most objective people knew, that AC was the stronger rider.
This is nothing against LA- as 3 rd was still an exceptional performance.
He was not able to control his two star riders and he has now lost Contador.

If you are Johan and Lance wants to come back I don't think you can fault him for saying yes even though it would complicate things. I think Johan was getting bored and wanted to complicate things. He's almost said as much.

He failed? 1st and 3rd and his team in complete control from start to finish, taking home over 1/3 of the total prize money, and he failed?!!! Silly, silly thing to say.

Regardless of this tour, if Vino was coming back, Johan was going to leave. He made that clear. I'm sure that when Astana quit paying people, and do not forget that happened, Lance and Johan knew they be off on a new team together. They may have even known it before that. I doubt he had any illusions that AC and Lance on the same team was going to work long term. .

 

[Carboncrank]

LOL Thats like saying if Armstrong is so good why can't he beat Cavendish.

Actually a great climber can become a very good time trialist with training and focus. It wouldn't be the first time and if he does Andy becomes scary good.

Much different that becoming a sprinter. Body type, fast twitch vs slow twitch and all that.

A problem he may have is that he's so tall. Makes more frontal area.
It also makes it harder to keep your weight down as you get older.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

If you are Johan and Lance wants to come back I don't think you can fault him for saying yes even though it would complicate things. I think Johan was getting bored and wanted to complicate things. He's almost said as much.

He failed? 1st and 3rd and his team in complete control from start to finish, taking home over 1/3 of the total prize money, and he failed?!!! Silly, silly thing to say.

Regardless of this tour, if Vino was coming back, Johan was going to leave. He made that clear. I'm sure that when Astana quit paying people, and do not forget that happened, Lance and Johan knew they be off on a new team together. They may have even known it before that. I doubt he had any illusions that AC and Lance on the same team was going to work long term. .

Yes - he failed, please take the time to read my post, as I clearly said that it was to do with how he controlled his two stars.
I have no idea of your cycling knowledge but it is fair to say that if you and I took over as DS's of Astana Contador would still have won!

 

[Carboncrank]

Yes - he failed, please take the time to read my post, as I clearly said that it was to do with how he controlled his two stars.
I have no idea of your cycling knowledge but it is fair to say that if you and I took over as DS's of Astana Contador would still have won!

The only meaningful measure of his supposed failure would be the result of the race.

If you want to deny that the 9 time winner of the Tour de France knows what he's doing you do so at the risk of your own credibility.

 

[ggusta]

The only meaningful measure of his supposed failure would be the result of the race.

If you want to deny that the 9 time winner of the Tour de France knows what he's doing you do so at the risk of your own credibility.

What's better, a thread that overheats with emotions and spins out of control or one that dies of ennui?