Official lance armstrong thread, part 2 (from september 2012)

[Checkov]

An old link, but in case someone hasn't seen it yet. (link) It's really the comments that are relevant, I've always thought wired.com would attract more intelligent people, but half of them literally behave like they were bought and paid for by Armstrong.

 

[MarkvW]

The Sunday Times:
Report makes tough reading for cycling’s rulers



bless David Walsh!

hopefully, somebody (RR?), will have this up so I don't have to wait until Monday when my news' agent is open.

Walsh's report appears to be BS. He's trying to convey the impression that he's actually read the report without saying that he's actually read the report.

I see enough of that on this forum. Jeez.

Edit: I was wrong. Apparently there was a lot more behind the Rupert Murdoch firewall.

 

[thirteen]

Looks like Kristin gets a drubbing as she was handing out the drugs for Lance.

so i've heard from the chatter!

and we thought her keeping silent was just to protect her alimony...

 

[doolols]

Walsh's report appears to be BS. He's trying to convey the impression that he's actually read the report without saying that he's actually read the report.

No. He's not read the report. But he's spoken to someone who *has* read the report, or was instrumental in creating the report.

Tick, tick, tick ...

 

[DirtyWorks]

No. He's not read the report. But he's spoken to someone who *has* read the report, or was instrumental in creating the report.

Tick, tick, tick ...

C'mon Lance don't let the WADA beat you!!!! Show up at Hog's hearing and make stuff up to preserve the legend. I thought you were a champion??!!

 

[Page Mill Masochist]

An old link, but in case someone hasn't seen it yet. (link) It's really the comments that are relevant, I've always thought wired.com would attract more intelligent people, but half of them literally behave like they were bought and paid for by Armstrong.

Wired has a Brave New World edge to it. There have been many Wired stories about the promises of hacking the human body and brain -- with smart drugs, PEDs, nanobots, and so on.

The line in sports -- at least WADA governed sports -- is clear. But broader society will have to wrestle with these human PED issues, too. Example: Suppose some new "smart drugs" come along that can do for one's SAT test performance what Edgar does for one's time up Alpe d'Huez -- offer instant 10%+ improvement. Should such drugs be legal? Will this be the abortion debate of the 21st century -- the right to hack one's body?

The Wired crowd rather likes these tech-driven human enhancements. So it's not surprising that some would think of Armstrong as a human hacking explorer. Add such commenters to the usual gang of feckless tri geeks, Livestrong interns and cult thugs who comprise Armstrong's online fan base, and it's no surprise you see lot of pro Armstrong comments.

 

[Checkov]

Wired has a Brave New World edge to it. There have been many Wired stories about the promises of hacking the human body and brain -- with smart drugs, PEDs, nanobots, and so on.

The line in sports -- at least WADA governed sports -- is clear. But broader society will have to wrestle with these human PED issues, too. Example: Suppose some new "smart drugs" come along that can do for one's SAT test performance what Edgar does for one's time up Alpe d'Huez -- offer instant 10%+ improvement. Should such drugs be legal? Will this be the abortion debate of the 21st century -- the right to hack one's body?

The Wired crowd rather likes these tech-driven human enhancements. So it's not surprising that some would think of Armstrong as a human hacking explorer. Add such commenters to the usual gang of feckless tri geeks, Livestrong interns and cult thugs who comprise Armstrong's online fan base, and it's no surprise you see lot of pro Armstrong comments.

It worries me a lot. If, hypothetically, Armstrong's guilt would have been less evident and he had slightly more political support, I could easily see Tygart having to pay for his insolence in persecuting Lance the American hero. I've seen too many cases in the news of people being fired for seemingly political purposes and then I usually shrug and figure they probably had it coming for asking too many nosy questions. But now that I've seen firsthand how a push for such a thing works, it's really sickening. If you believe some of the comment sections, Tygart is worse than McCarthy, is utterly corrupt and has gone mad with power. (and he must be some sort of evil genius for coercing a dozen witnesses into false testimonies)

It's a bit strange, Lance's case is a lot like that of your typical corrupt business executive: flaunt the rules to win at all costs and make friends in high places. Yet believing wired he is just another victim in the War On Drugs, which is so bizarre I don't even understand it. (it must be what you said)

 

[Page Mill Masochist]

Yet believing wired he is just another victim in the War On Drugs...

The San Francisco-Silicon Valley culture which produced the personal computer in the 1970s was a mix of hippies and rebel geeks. Wired still embodies that culture. They hate the war on drugs and they hate anything that stops people from exploring their inner or outer world. They are for technology and personal autonomy. These beliefs, absent the facts about Armstrong, set them in Armstrong's direction.

Most Wired readers haven't been exposed to the truth of Armstrong's cheating and bullying and spying and political manipulations. That fuller picture will come and it will change a lot of people's minds -- even Wired fans.

 

[Ferminal]

https://twitter.com/nyvelocity/status/252240300574142464

 

[Ferminal]

Another rider recalls a telephone call from George Hincapie, a teammate of Armstrong’s in all seven Tour wins, saying he had been stopped by US Customs while returning from Europe and that EPO had been found in his luggage. He lied that it was prescribed medication and they accepted this story.

lolwut...?

 

[mewmewmew13]

https://twitter.com/nyvelocity/status/252240300574142464

Thank you fermi!

 

[thehog]

Wowza! Good times!

What will alarm UCI is the detail contained in multiple recollections of Armstrong’s teammates. One rider tells a story from the 1998 world championship at Valkenburg in Holland when cortisone pills, wrapped in tin foil, were given to the Postal riders on the US national team for the road race. According to the rider’s affidavit, the pills were wrapped in the foil and handed out by Kristin Armstrong, the champion’s former wife. “Kristin is rolling the joints,” one rider joked at the time.

 

[Berzin]

And we thought her [Kristen Armstrong] keeping silent was just to protect her alimony...

Her alimony has nothing to do with her testimony, which she was forced into after other riders had implicated her.

She had no choice but to come clean or be named as a co-conspirator in the USADA's charging letter.

Kristen, another enabling a-hole.

Lance Armstrong did treat her like crap, but there's a saying that goes "show me who you associate with and I'll show you who you are".

 

[MarkvW]

Her alimony has nothing to do with her testimony, which she was forced into after other riders had implicated her.

She had no choice but to come clean or be named as a co-conspirator in the USADA's charging letter.

Kristen, another enabling a-hole.

Lance Armstrong did treat her like crap, but there's a saying that goes "show me who you associate with and I'll show you who you are".

That doesn't make very much sense. Why would Kristin Armstrong care one way or the other whether or not she's named in USADA's charging letter? She's not an athlete. She's not filth like Pepe Marti, a person who's going to help other scumbag dopers cheat in the future. . . .

 

[thehog]

That doesn't make very much sense. Why would Kristin Armstrong care one way or the other whether or not she's named in USADA's charging letter? She's not an athlete. She's not filth like Pepe Marti, a person who's going to help other scumbag dopers cheat in the future. . . .

You know very little.

This is probably one of the reasons: http://milemarkers.runnersworld.com/

 

[python]

as usual, walsh is well informed and has done his home work.

the key to the veracity of usada's case against armstrong is in this quote:

...Tygart might have been referring to the presence of US Justice Department official Mike Pugliese at USADA’s interviews with witnesses.

During the interviews, Pugliese sat silently but with transcripts of interviews these witnesses had given before a Grand Jury or to federal officers in the case against the team that was dropped in February. “As you gave an answer to a question,” one witness said, “you were very conscious of this guy checking it against the answer you had given to the Feds, so you really wanted to make sure you got it right.”

some new details are also devastating to the uci.

 

[Race Radio]

That doesn't make very much sense. Why would Kristin Armstrong care one way or the other whether or not she's named in USADA's charging letter? She's not an athlete. She's not filth like Pepe Marti, a person who's going to help other scumbag dopers cheat in the future. . . .

I do not think Kristen was much help to USADA

 

[MarkvW]

You know very little.

This is probably one of the reasons: http://milemarkers.runnersworld.com/

What are you talking about?

 

[workingclasshero]

What are you talking about?

kristen makes her money out of sport too, not just by being a former champion's former ***bucket, but she also publishes books + writes for magazines like Runner's World (which also is where thehog's link leads), where I once read an article by her which was something along the lines of "Anyone who runs a marathon in 5hrs should be proud of it, I am"

 

[Jack Aubrey]

'Two riders are believed to have given affidavits that Armstrong told them he had a positive test swept under the carpet at the 2001 Tour of Switzerland and another has sworn that Armstrong told him he could use his influence with UCI to circumvent cycling’s anti-doping laws'

Why bother repeating this old story over and over? This has been deemed meaningless as hearsay with regards to any investigation or hearing. If USADA puts that in their report, they just guarantee that UCI will contest it.

 

[Jack Aubrey]

The supposed retested EPO samples from '99 are also an old story and a non-starter. USADA better have much more than that in their evidence. Some credible riders , not Floyd and Tyler, need to have supported the conspiracy story in their testimony.

 

[Benotti69]

'Two riders are believed to have given affidavits that Armstrong told them he had a positive test swept under the carpet at the 2001 Tour of Switzerland and another has sworn that Armstrong told him he could use his influence with UCI to circumvent cycling’s anti-doping laws'

Why bother repeating this old story over and over? This has been deemed meaningless as hearsay with regards to any investigation or hearing. If USADA puts that in their report, they just guarantee that UCI will contest it.

If USADA has put it in their report, I bet that it is no longer hearsay as Mr Saugy has talked to USADA.

USADA are not dealing in hearsay, if they were Armstrong would've contested USADA's findings.

USADA's evidence will bury any idea that Armstrong was clean and it will destroy UCI as corrupt.

 

[trailrunner]

kristen makes her money out of sport too, not just by being a former champion's former ***bucket, but she also publishes books + writes for magazines like Runner's World (which also is where thehog's link leads), where I once read an article by her which was something along the lines of "Anyone who runs a marathon in 5hrs should be proud of it, I am"

I used to read RW. Kristen Armstrong started writing her column after her divorce from LA. Her column was no better or worse than the bland, overly introspective cr@p that's in RW, but I couldn't figure out why she was allowed to publish the column since he had no credentials. She wasn't a life-long runner. She hadn't built a following of BOPers, like the Penguin (John Bingham) had done. She was just LA's ex-wife. The only thing I could figure is that she appealed to the middle age women runners, which is a big running demographic. Otherwise, her column bored me more than the other boring columns and after trying to read one of her columns, I never read another one.

However, if her clean-girl image is tarnished, it will be interesting to see if RW drops her from the magazine.

 

[Benotti69]

The supposed retested EPO samples from '99 are also an old story and a non-starter. USADA better have much more than that in their evidence. Some credible riders , not Floyd and Tyler, need to have supported the conspiracy story in their testimony.

Sorry, but you really have not been paying attention.

This has already been dissected and those samples are not out of the water.

They are lined up along with all the other yellow ducks in a nice line of evidence.

Trying to question the evidence is so year 2009, just like the black and yellow 28 t-shirt you are wearing.

 

[Jack Aubrey]

Sorry, but you really have not been paying attention.

This has already been dissected and those samples are not out of the water.

They are lined up along with all the other yellow ducks in a nice line of evidence.

Trying to question the evidence is so year 2009, just like the black and yellow 28 t-shirt you are wearing.

I'll bet your wrong and that UCI will dispute any samples from 99 used to determine or contribute to determining non-analytical positive. Let's wait and see...