Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[Zweistein]

You think Levi Leipheimer isn't regretting what transpired?.

Apparently, you missed Levi's TED talk.

 

[blackcat]

What are you saying?

Bolt is about to get diagnosed with Cancer, and then will take up cycling?

Dave.

i was saying Armstrong was the head of the monster, but essentially he is a non-entity cypher.

it goes without saying, Armstrong the person may well be (is) a monster also. You take out a doper, you put in a Froome and Wiggins. They may treat others with respect, but they are still doping.

Hincapie et al made Faustian pacts and sucked from the teat. Only a few bit players, did not succumb to the lure. The Andreaus, OReilly... only a few, which paints their actions in stark relief because they were unique exceptions.

 

[wansteadimp]

What are you saying?

Bolt is about to get diagnosed with Cancer, and then will take up cycling?

Dave.

Don't be ridiculous, he'll go after El Guerrouj's 1500m record.

 

[MarkvW]

Nd

Replace the bit players and nothing changes. They, with the exception of George Hincapie, were unable to enrich themselves the way the top dogs did.

You think Levi Leipheimer isn't regretting what transpired? Does he have enough money to retire on a bed of cash like Hincapie? Don't think so.

Donestiques and masseurs matter very little in this story. It is what took place from the top down that is at the heart of the scandal. Replace them with anyone else and nothing changes. Replace Armstrong, Bruyneel or Ferrari and you'll have a very different story.

You can waste your time twisting it into a pretzel for the sake of being a contrarian, but your logic is flawed.

Yes. Poor domestique Floyd Landis. He "matter very little in this story." And all the other people who saw the wrong and contributed to it "matter very little in this story."

It's not a matter of logic; it's a matter of perspective. Some people are interested in the interpersonal dynamics that allow organized doping. Others are not. Your reasoning is hampered by your inability to see that what might be highly illogical from your perspective might also be quite logical from another person's perspective.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Not saying Armstrong did nothing wrong, hell, he even got himself cancer probably, but making him the BIG BAD @SS of cycling is so laughable. Maybe for the US scene he is though.

This notion that Armstrong was some lone doper needs to stop.

You are missing the simple fact both the leaders of his national federation, and the leaders of the international federation were co-conspirators to creating the myth. The organizations (plural) that are supposed to be enforcing the rules had no rules when it came to their sports fraud scheme.

Worry why guys like Gianni Bugno still have a prominent say in pro - cycling, you know, Conconi project numero uno. Even Indurain has the decency to stay away.

Which is really the core of the problem. Same sports fraud infrastructure enhanced over time to "grow the sport."

It's a great sports-simulated show-business model. Better and much bigger than entertainment wrestling could ever be. They move the fraud scheme from country to country now with relative ease now that Thom Wiesel showed them how to do it. It's not a lone athlete doping problem. Is that clear now?

 

[Berzin]

Yes. Poor domestique Floyd Landis. He "matter very little in this story." And all the other people who saw the wrong and contributed to it "matter very little in this story."

It's not a matter of logic; it's a matter of perspective. Some people are interested in the interpersonal dynamics that allow organized doping. Others are not. Your reasoning is hampered by your inability to see that what might be highly illogical from your perspective might also be quite logical from another person's perspective.

Sematics and strawman arguments is all you're left with. A tiresome hand to be showing at this stage of the game.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Are you really still a mod?

 

[Bannockburn]

Nooo. Dumb as a brick. Unrepentant and unchanged at this point in time. The legal tactics haven't changed either.

Except now, he doesn't have Tailwind/USAC doing all the work of setting him up for his "I'm sorry that you don't believe" B.S.

Yes and no.

Unrepentant? Yes. Unchanged? Yes. Firmly believes he has been treated unfairly? Of course.

But that doesn't change the fact he's a calculated guy who doesn't tend to act without reason. Always correctly calculated? No. Which was my point re: following what seems to be horrible legal advice over the past 11 months.

Don't get me wrong, the guy is/was horrible for the sport and probably worse for general humanity. But I assure you he is not a stupid individual. In fact, the fact he isn't is exactly what allowed him to create this mess in the first place.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Yes and no.

Unrepentant? Yes. Unchanged? Yes. Firmly believes he has been treated unfairly? Of course.

But that doesn't change the fact he's a calculated guy who doesn't tend to act without reason. Always correctly calculated? No. Which was my point re: following what seems to be horrible legal advice over the past 11 months.

Don't get me wrong, the guy is/was horrible for the sport and probably worse for general humanity. But I assure you he is not a stupid individual. In fact, the fact he isn't is exactly what allowed him to create this mess in the first place.

I read your earlier post wrong then. We agree.

IMHO, with Wiesel out of the picture, he's a comedy of errors.

 

[Race Radio]

Judge ruled Lance has to go under oath in the Acceptance insurance case. Nov 21st......the truth, and nothing but the truth.

 

[gooner]

Neal Karlinksy just tweeted a picture of this.

 

[darwin553]

Judge ruled Lance has to go under oath in the Acceptance insurance case. Nov 21st......the truth, and nothing but the truth.

Looking forward to it

 

[mewmewmew13]

I really like the use of that word 'ORDERED'

NO Weiseling out of that

 

[DirtyWorks]

Judge ruled Lance has to go under oath in the Acceptance insurance case. Nov 21st......the truth, and nothing but the truth.

The big question is does he know the truth from lies?

 

[wirral]

Does the Acceptance Insurance case relate to the bonus for his first 3 Tour de France victories? Sorry for my ignorance (and laziness to plough through 272 pages of bickering to find the answer).

I am sure a little Lance 101 will help the other LA ignoramuses out there too.

 

[MarkvW]

Does the Acceptance Insurance case relate to the bonus for his first 3 Tour de France victories? Sorry for my ignorance (and laziness to plough through 272 pages of bickering to find the answer).

I am sure a little Lance 101 will help the other LA ignoramuses out there too.

It's for the TdF wins before SCA bet against Lance.

 

[MarkvW]

The big question is does he know the truth from lies?

If Lance doesn't know what the feds know, he won't be able to fashion a plausible lie.

 

[wirral]

It's for the TdF wins before SCA bet against Lance.

Thanks, yes, that was what I thought it was.

 

[Benotti69]

The big question is does he know the truth from lies?

This will be interesting.

Is it true Armstrong has since this all came crashing down on his head fallen out with Weisel and Stapleton, 2 people who definitely know the truth?

 

[D-Queued]

The big question is does he know the truth from lies?

No.

As such, not really his concern. He is not concerned with such matters, and has little grasp of the truth.

That being the case, his counsel should be going crazy over this lest they be ultimately liable for malpractice when Lance is finally caught up in his great web of lies, or one big lie, or many small lies, or whatever he thinks it might be.

Hence the original motion.

Dave.

 

[MarkvW]

No.

As such, not really his concern. He is not concerned with such matters, and has little grasp of the truth.

That being the case, his counsel should be going crazy over this lest they be ultimately liable for malpractice when Lance is finally caught up in his great web of lies, or one big lie, or many small lies, or whatever he thinks it might be.

Hence the original motion.

Dave.

Two problems with this analysis:

If Lance alleges malpractice, then he waives the attorney client privilege, and his lawyers will be able to talk publicly about everything. Lance might not want that.

The lawyers are not responsible in malpractice for Lance's lies. If they're caught up in his deceitful conduct, they might have trouble with the State Bar.

 

[D-Queued]

Two problems with this analysis:

If Lance alleges malpractice, then he waives the attorney client privilege, and his lawyers will be able to talk publicly about everything. Lance might not want that.

The lawyers are not responsible in malpractice for Lance's lies. If they're caught up in his deceitful conduct, they might have trouble with the State Bar.

I'm holding out hope for the latter, with bonus points for criminal proceedings.

Dave.

 

[thrawn]

Can he plead the 5th?

 

[D-Queued]

Can he plead the 5th?

Our legal experts advised that he cannot. But, I am always interested in hearing why that is all over again.

Dave.

 

[Race Radio]

the idiots who threaten Travis? Guilty

http://www.nydailynews.com/men-threatened-anti-doping-official-plead-guilty-article-1.1472789#bmb=1

I remember a bunch of groupies saying "ahhh, it is not that bad" Guess that defense does not work so well in court