Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[rhubroma]

I'm not hoodwinked by this. On this thread and board though, that's the direction the vitriol goes. It's over. Done and dusted. And the lead up to it was massive.

Did he make the dam break. Maybe. But if so why are the devout keeping up the fight?

The issue is not the agency's exposure of the ring, but their (apparent) indifference to pursuing (many) further cases.

I'm arguing against exceptionalism and universality as they bear down on this matter. Nothing more.

Unfortunately, no, he did not make the dam break. And it is for the same spectacular and monetary reasons you alluded to before. The show must go on…

Perhaps the only thing that will make anything change, would be the promise of individual extinction in a systemic context. In this sense, then, perhaps rugby will take over US football within our century. Money certainly won’t change anything.

 

[aphronesis]

I went more toward the butthole surfers jesus lizard side of things. I just "liked" the smiths because I liked getting laid...sorry to be so crass.

Well, the genre of Sister Double Happiness and the Gun Club, etc. definitely alleviated that kind of nonsense anyway. In this thread, I'd say these are about the least crass things discussed on a recurrent basis....

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

I'm unconvinced the pharmaceutical companies are opposed to the illegal usage of their drugs for performance enhancement.

Why would they be? Every time there is a mass shooting in the USA, in the weeks that follow, the sales of whatever guns were used skyrocket. As they say in Hollyweird, it doesn't matter what the press say about you, so long as they spell your (trade) name correctly.

 

[Briant_Gumble]

I think most of us here are familiar with the study of Kenyan runners, which showed as much as 5% better performance while on EPO, tapering to 3% four weeks after stopping doping. But obviously the pharmaceutical companies did not create this stuff for the benefit of athletes who want to dope. Everyone who I personally have known who was prescribed EPO either was fighting respiratory disease or kidney failure.

For my money, it's a shame you can't buy vitamins that contain the stuff.

I'm surprised it improved their performance by only 5%, was expecting more.

 

[Taxus4a]

5 % it is too much, maybe that is for some kind of riders, if you give EPO to Quintana he dont improve 5 %, maybe just 2 %.

 

[Oldman]

But they shipped the legal stuff in bulk to Mexican "pharmacies" just over the border. I remember some Cat 2's I knew in the 90's taking a road trip Juarez just prior to going to Italy to race...funny thing, they got CRUSHED in Italy anyway...they weren't taking it for "recovery" either...

There was also the Ensenada Training Camp excuse...It's like any advantage: useless without some expertise.

 

[thehog]

I'm surprised it improved their performance by only 5%, was expecting more.

Living at altitude. Need to bring them down to earth for the full effects.

Perfect candidates for transfusions though.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I'm surprised it improved their performance by only 5%, was expecting more.

As has been mentioned many, many times over, there are non-responders, responders, and super-responders. For example, JV considered himself a non-responder and while he had some results, not the grand tour results of admitted dopers "Der Kaiser" or Wonderboy. It turns out it's practically alchemy to get the transformation desired by dopers.

I know 5% sounds like a small number, but it's minutes on a steep hill and hours in a grand tour.

 

[High Octane]

For example, JV considered himself a non-responder and while he had some results, not the grand tour results of admitted dopers "Der Kaiser" or Wonderboy...

JV has never said he was a non responder. He had a number of problems - his haematocrit was too high to begin with, plus he had poor psychological depth perception. He admits Armstrong was in a different league.

I'm not sure what non responder means. In medical science it would mean the drug is not producing many more new blood cells. This would mean you either need more of the drug, a different drug that produced similar results, or you need a blood transfusion to bypass the problem.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I'm not sure what non responder means.

I meant, in a non-specific way, it didn't give JV the grand tour podium power/recovery for which they all aim.

Anecdotally, contrast JV's doping with Wonderboy's suffering at a hilly domestic stage race against non-WT riders and then transforming to grand tour glory in something like four short weeks??? It's a super-hero level tranformation that does not happen with every doper for whatever reasons. Some sure have it though... Armstrong, Chicken, and Froome being excellent examples.

No precision in that description, but hopefully differentiates responses to doping.

 

[MarkvW]

I meant, in a non-specific way, it didn't give JV the grand tour podium power/recovery for which they all aim.

Anecdotally, contrast JV's doping with Wonderboy's suffering at a hilly domestic stage race against non-WT riders and then transforming to grand tour glory in something like four short weeks??? It's a super-hero level tranformation that does not happen with every doper for whatever reasons. Some sure have it though... Armstrong, Chicken, and Froome being excellent examples.

No precision in that description, but hopefully differentiates responses to doping.

I think that surprisingly bad results followed by surprisingly good results can indicate the withdrawal and later replacement of some very good blood.

 

[86TDFWinner]

Here's a Wonderboy book I'd definitely be interested in reading:


http://www.amazon.com/Cycle-Lies-Fa...=UTF8&qid=1385276035&sr=1-8&keywords=wheelmen

 

[blackcat]

I'm surprised it improved their performance by only 5%, was expecting more.

cycling is not weight supporting.

oxygen's potential exhaustion by the aerobic system, will be limited by the aerobic system's restriction by the running action weight supporting demands.

 

[blackcat]

I think that surprisingly bad results followed by surprisingly good results can indicate the withdrawal and later replacement of some very good blood.

ask 131313 about Armstrong going backwards on climbs at Tour de Gila.

must have had blood out in Austin before flying to New Mexico

 

[sideshadow]

I'm not sure what non responder means. In medical science it would mean the drug is not producing many more new blood cells. This would mean you either need more of the drug, a different drug that produced similar results, or you need a blood transfusion to bypass the problem.

I think in this context we can assume that it means the drug will give less benefit to certain athletes, the non responders. Not because it doesn't do it's purpose but because of mainly the 50% Hct ruling of the time. Two guys with different hematocrits (40 vs 46) can have exactly the same threshold d.t. peripheral/ muscular adaptations. When they both dope however they need to stay below 50% so the one gains 8 Hct points and the other 2 points, making him a 'non responder'.

Lance's values that he released in '09 showed Hct values of as low as 39. During the time of the 50% rule, that's a 'BIG' number. Lots of room to tweak the engine.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

I think in this context we can assume that it means the drug will give less benefit to certain athletes, the non responders. Not because it doesn't do it's purpose but because of mainly the 50% Hct ruling of the time. Two guys with different hematocrits (40 vs 46) can have exactly the same threshold d.t. peripheral/ muscular adaptations. When they both dope however they need to stay below 50% so the one gains 8 Hct points and the other 2 points, making him a 'non responder'.

Lance's values that he released in '09 showed Hct values of as low as 39. During the time of the 50% rule, that's a 'BIG' number. Lots of room to tweak the engine.

Exactly.

Remember in the 90s teams releasing roster health status, and entire squads were 48 - 49? You'd have a better chance winning the lottery every day for a year, than getting 16+ people together with 'crits that close.

 

[proffate]

Exactly.

Remember in the 90s teams releasing roster health status, and entire squads were 48 - 49? You'd have a better chance winning the lottery every day for a year, than getting 16+ people together with 'crits that close.

but these aren't 16 randoms off the street, there's quite a selection bias. I bet the whole team was under 8% body fat, which also has zilch chance of occurring among 16 randomly chosen Americans.

 

[Benotti69]

but these aren't 16 randoms off the street, there's quite a selection bias. I bet the whole team was under 8% body fat, which also has zilch chance of occurring among 16 randomly chosen Americans.

HcTs are naturally occurring in the body. Few have high Hcts and it is not predominate amongst athletes.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Apparently neither will transfusions, EPO, Testosterone or HGH.

 

[D-Queued]

Apparently neither will transfusions, EPO, Testosterone or HGH.

That's funny.

You had to be pretty naive to include that quote, of course.

Dave.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Apparently neither will transfusions, EPO, Testosterone or HGH.

...or being one of the biggest pr!cks to ever throw a leg over a bike.

 

[Archibald]

Apparently neither will transfusions, EPO, Testosterone or HGH.

considering that's from a "school agenda", that's effectively telling students that none of their hard work [and study] will show up in your exams, no?

 

[MarkvW]

Betsy Andreu is sharing with the world the shocking revelation that Lance is a liar whose personality is never going to change:


http://crankpunk.com/2013/12/03/tell-me-lies-lance-sweet-little-lies/

 

[webvan]

Sobering...that guy's going back to the gutter.

 

[42x16ss]

Chris McCormack has given Lance an opportunity to follow through with his pre-suspension smack talk with an unaffiliated one on one race and Lance is considering!

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-03/lance-armstrong-considering-race-against-chris-mccormack/5132808

Kick his **** Macca!!!