Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[thehog]

All true.... but;

He's been incredibly careful to avoid public comments regarding his doping. Now he's not. That's different.

Not so sure on that. He said the same in the Gibney movie in regards to Frankie and told a velonews he didn't want to testify against Lance but had to by way of law.

Armstrong has been complimentary of George saying he's one of the only ones to still speak with him from the world of cycling. Hincapie also told Lance about the 6 month deals Tygart jimmied up for the sake of appearance.

He has been there and consistent. But no ones noticed in all the Lance stuff to care.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Is it too far fetched to suggest Hincapie is fishing to see if Frankie or someone around there has more dirt not yet revealed? His actions could potentially be perceived as an effort to elicit retaliation. LA and Hincapie would be linked, undoubtedly.

Get Hincapie to cast the bait and see what pops up? Help LA prepare a defense against that dirt by giving him a heads up ahead of time?

 

[Hugh Januss]

It doesn't really matter what words Lance used, if everyone who made the Tour team took it as "you have to take EPO to make the Tour team" then it is pretty clear who was directing what. Semantics schemantics.

 

[Boeing]

All true.... but;

He's been incredibly careful to avoid public comments regarding his doping. Now he's not. That's different.

yea interesting

btw are you recovered and on the bike? are you doing Como and foodpark?

 

[mewmewmew13]

It doesn't really matter what words Lance used, if everyone who made the Tour team took it as "you have to take EPO to make the Tour team" then it is pretty clear who was directing what. Semantics schemantics.

Aw Hugh we missed ya around here.
The playground's been a little messy lately…

One thing I do believe for sure is that there is a reason for all of this surfacing and bubbling and RR is %100 correct when he says that many here are not totally aware of the investment of certain players.

The legal festivities that are looming over Armstrong's head atm are prolly a pretty good guess…
whoever said 'vultures' is astute and I would bet that is a good metaphor.
Armstrong is looking a bit older and worn lately…money can't make stress disappear.

 

[MarkvW]

If Lance invested some megabucks in Hincapie's business(s), would that be retrievable via the Qi Tam case or any other legal avenue?

Sure. That's what collection lawyers do.

 

[Kretch]

If Lance invested some megabucks in Hincapie's business(s), would that be retrievable via the Qi Tam case or any other legal avenue?

That's more like it Wiggo - use your sizeable intellect to add juice to the plot rather than arguing over word definitions. You're back on track

 

[ChewbaccaD]

That is because RR is the one driving the agenda. He is pulling stuff out of his @ss, like saying Hincapie claims Andreu was a drug pusher. The Hincapie content in the article is innocuous. It is simply Hincapie explaining a few of the things that led him to use EPO, how he and Andreu used to be friends, and how he did not understand how Andreu wanted to attack the sport and his friends. Nothing from Hincapie in that article was unreasonable. It is just his point of view. It is being portrayed as a sneaky and underhanded attack on the Andreu's by Armstrong.

My issue is this: The confluence of statements by Lance and Hincapie regarding this issue. Nothing in Armstrong's history suggests that a coincidence like that is an innocent event. Nothing.

 

[Cal_Joe]

For several months Lance has been trying to get the "Frankie the pusher" angle into the public domain.

Link please?

 

[mewmewmew13]

my issue is this: The confluence of statements by lance and hincapie regarding this issue. Nothing in armstrong's history suggests that a coincidence like that is an innocent event. Nothing.

exactly

+++++

 

[DirtyWorks]

Link please?

There aren't going to be links. The way most "stories" work is they are pitched to the editor. The editor says "yea" and assigns a writer. Or something like that.

So, Wonderboy has a PR hack contacting freelance writers and editors pitching his fantasies.

The fables of writers dredging up stories like "All the President's Men" is ancient history.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Link please?

4 1/2 months since your last post and this is what you've got? Azz ghat.

 

[Night Rider]

You didn't read the affidavit did you?

Yes I did. And unlike you I have no dog in the fight so I am not reading anymore or less into the affidavit than what is actually in black and white.

Here is the text again. Please read carefully.

23. In 1995 there appeared to me to be a major change in the peloton It was becoming very difficult to keep up, and I learned that the reason was the widespread use of erythropoietin (“EPO"), a banned blood oxygen booster for which there was. at the time, no effective doping test. As the speed of the peloton increased we seemed to be confronted with the choice of using EPO or not performing well in races.

24. At this point in time people in the peloton were talking about EPO quite openly.

25. I recall that around this time Dr. Michele Ferrari, an Italian physician working with cyclists was quoted as saying thai EPO was no more dangerous than orange juice.

26. I also recall talking with my teammate Stephen Swart who said everybody was
taking EPO.

27. Around this time we got crushed in the Milan-San Remo race and coming home from the race Lance Armstrong was very upset. As we drove home Lance said, in substance, that, “this is bull ****, people are using stuff" and “we are getting killed." He said, in substance, that be did not want to get crushed any more and something needed to be done. I understood that he meant the team needed to get on EPO.

28. In 1995 and 1996 I lived in Como. Italy with Rider-4, Kevin Livingston, and Frankie Andreu.

29. Lance also lived in Como at the time but on his own and not with the three of us.

30. Eventually, I came to understand that Frankie Andreu had experimented with EPO, and he told me how I could obtain it in Switzerland, Kevin, Rider-4 and I discussed using EPO at this time and my understanding was that we all began using it around this time.

Page 4 of 16

And here again is your post I responded to. You have applied your own context and additional interpretation. Remember, Hincapie's affidavit didn't get challenged or questioned as Lance rolled over on all charges. There is no additional interpretation or information to add and the affidavit stands on it's own.

Hincapie is very clear in his USADA affidavit about the various influences that led to him taking EPO.

In Chronological order

Farrari says EPO is not dangerous
Swart says everyone is doing it
Armstrong gets angry after Milan San Remo and says the team needs to start using EPO
Frankie says you can buy EPO in Switzerland
George, Kevin, and Bobby talk about the need to start using EPO and all start at the same time

He is very clear in his affidavit that it was lance who first demanded they start using EPO......now he tries to paint Frankie is a pusher/junkie? Things change fast

Back to your reply to my post.

Swart says the same thing. The day after telling George the team needed to get on EPO he went on a ride with Swart and "Lance Armstrong was leading the conversation and strongly stated that the riders who were in line to ride the Tour de France that year needed to be on an EPO program"

I'm well aware of what Swart said and it's not at all relevant in this discussion, I'm responding to comments you made about Hincapie's affidavit, I didn't respond to Swart's affidavit as Hincapie is neither bound to it or facing charges relating to it. I'm curious to know as a separate discussion though whether Frankie also gave the Switzerland hook up to Swart? [paragraph 8 - Swart Affidavit]

The guy pushing the team to get on EPO was lance, not Frankie.

Yet you choose to ignore paragraph 30? At the point of Paragraph 30 Hincapie had not used EPO, Frankie had and gave him the hook up. Isn't that what he is stating in the article?

 

[andy1234]

Interesting that people dislike the revisionism going on from LA (a dislike I share), but if a similar revisionism is revealed here, and subsequently questioned, attempts are made to shut it down, insult it, etc.

Seems hypocritical.

This is what the argument is all about.
RR is pushing his agenda, and expects everyone to swallow it.
Anyone reading the thread can see that some of the claims he are stating as fact, are at best, his interpretation.

Given the PR BS, the Armstrong camp throws around, it's understandable to use the same tactics, but he shouldn't stick his fingers in his ears when his hypocrisy gets pointed out.

When you are unable to accept that your corner are not whiter than white, there really is nowhere to go.

 

[BradCantona]

Armstrong's tactics are so blatant it's insulting our intelligence

It's a clear smear attempt, conducted with his 'gentleman' friend, with an obvious motive

I just can't see why RR is getting so much stick here, I think I'm missing something?

 

[Night Rider]

Armstrong's tactics are so blatant it's insulting our intelligence

It's a clear smear attempt, conducted with his 'gentleman' friend, with an obvious motive

What is the motive for Lance? To beat the Qui Tam case? What is the motivation for George then?

I just can't see why RR is getting so much stick here, I think I'm missing something?

I'm not giving him stick. It's just he has this habit of rewriting the facts to suit an agenda. I read it from him all the time and I felt the need to comment this time.

 

[BroDeal]

Armstrong's tactics are so blatant it's insulting our intelligence

It's a clear smear attempt, conducted with his 'gentleman' friend, with an obvious motive

So this plot is to have Hincapie reiterate what he said in his affidavit so the Andreus and their supporters will be outraged over their misinterpretation of what he is quoted as saying?

This kerfuffle is about nothing. As Knight Rider posted, Hincapie's recent statements match his affidavit. Hincapie's message to Andreu a decade ago (posted above) matches Hincapie's recent statements about not understanding why the Andreus were attacking the sport.

As for the additional information about how Hincapie felt about learning that Andreu was using EPO, so what? The affidavits cannot be treated as transcripts of interviews with USADA, but that is what some people are doing. They were carefully drawn to support the case against Armstrong. Unfortunately, all sorts of juicy extraneous information was left out because it was not relevant.

 

[BroDeal]

My issue is this: The confluence of statements by Lance and Hincapie regarding this issue. Nothing in Armstrong's history suggests that a coincidence like that is an innocent event. Nothing.

In this case, so what? Tygart and Betsy have been on a world media tour for the last year and a half. Hincapie lays low then gives a single interview to a newspaper, does not say much beyond what is in his affidavit, and people start buggin'. I don't get it.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

In this case, so what? Tygart and Betsy have been on a world media tour for the last year and a half. Hincapie lays low then gives a single interview to a newspaper, does not say much beyond what is in his affidavit, and people start buggin'. I don't get it.

Armstrong has been on a media tour for 16 fu*king years.

If you guys want to carry his water, go ahead and drop back to the team car. George carried enough of it, maybe he needs the help?

 

[andy1234]

Armstrong has been on a media tour for 16 fu*king years.

If you guys want to carry his water, go ahead and drop back to the team car. George carried enough of it, maybe he needs the help?

I personally, don't want to help any of them. It's their own personal sh*t storm, and despite the picture RR wants to paint, none of them should be given a pass.

If Frankie was instrumental in introducing EPO to the team, then let it be known. If Betsy turned a blind eye to her husbands EPO use in the 99 tour, let it be known. If Armstrong forced riders to take EPO, let it be known......

They are all fair game to scrutiny.

 

[Race Radio]

Yet you choose to ignore paragraph 30?

Reading is not your thing is it?

In Chronological order

Farrari says EPO is not dangerous
Swart says everyone is doing it
Armstrong gets angry after Milan San Remo and says the team needs to start using EPO
Frankie says you can buy EPO in Switzerland
George, Kevin, and Bobby talk about the need to start using EPO and all start at the same time

How is that "ignoring" Paragraph 30?

You guys are looking desperate

 

[ChewbaccaD]

I personally, don't want to help any of them. It's their own personal sh*t storm, and despite the picture RR wants to paint, none of them should be given a pass.

If Frankie was instrumental in introducing EPO to the team, then let it be known. If Betsy turned a blind eye to her husbands EPO use in the 99 tour, let it be known. If Armstrong forced riders to take EPO, let it be known......

They are all fair game to scrutiny.

I'd agree if Frankie hadn't had to pay for his "disloyalty" to Armstrong already. If you don't believe the stories of Frankie's difficulties securing jobs in the industry, you are being far too skeptical.

 

[gooner]

I personally, don't want to help any of them. It's their own personal sh*t storm, and despite the picture RR wants to paint, none of them should be given a pass.

If Frankie was instrumental in introducing EPO to the team, then let it be known. If Betsy turned a blind eye to her husbands EPO use in the 99 tour, let it be known. If Armstrong forced riders to take EPO, let it be known......

They are all fair game to scrutiny.

Armstrong is just guessing in his comment that Betsy knew about Frankie. His comments aren't based about being in the know on it when he makes this claim.

 

[Race Radio]

I personally, don't want to help any of them. It's their own personal sh*t storm, and despite the picture RR wants to paint, none of them should be given a pass.

If Frankie was instrumental in introducing EPO to the team, then let it be known. If Betsy turned a blind eye to her husbands EPO use in the 99 tour, let it be known. If Armstrong forced riders to take EPO, let it be known......

They are all fair game to scrutiny.

Rrrrright. 99% of your posts focus on heckling anyone who questions your hero. Nothing has changed.

It does appear Lance's nonsense has worked for some......do you really think Betsy turned a blind eye? Really?

Betsy watched the telecast of the tour from their Dearborn home, and says she was devastated to see Frankie climb through the mountains in Sestriere, Italy.

“He had no business climbing,” she says. “A red flag went up; something was wrong here.”

After watching her husband perform in races for five years, and knowing his strengths and weaknesses on a bicycle, Betsy was sure that Frankie had broken his promise to her. He’d used performance-enhancing drugs.

“I knew it without having proof because he’s not a climber,” she says.

“I called him after that, and he was really tired and said he didn’t want to talk,” Betsy says. “I was really angry and I kept pressing. ... I waited till I got there, and we just got into a huge brawl. I mean, you know, a really, really big fight.

“He promised me he wouldn’t use it anymore. But he was kind of like, ‘Betsy, you do realize I’m going to be off the team.’

What does Tyler think?

"I can't speak for everyone on the team, but it was my impression that most of the riders had the same full-disclosure policy when it came to their wives and girlfriends. There was only one notable exception: Frankie Andreu"

 

[Scott SoCal]

In this case, so what? Tygart and Betsy have been on a world media tour for the last year and a half. Hincapie lays low then gives a single interview to a newspaper, does not say much beyond what is in his affidavit, and people start buggin'. I don't get it.

I don't get it either.

Why get into the public arena now? If GH is gonna put his story out there and deal with all that goes with it (incredibly stupid move) why this rag and two-bit reporter?