I wonder will Juliet Macur's book next month have anymore new info on this topic.
I seen a couple of days back Emma O'Reilly has one scheduled for the summer.
I seen a couple of days back Emma O'Reilly has one scheduled for the summer.
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andy1234 said:Then I, and the NY times, stand corrected.
D-Queued said:Hopefully we can finally put that to rest...
However, perhaps this can serve as a placeholder for the next time you try and pin Lance's doping on Betsy.
andy1234 said:Yeah, because that's what was happening.
Careful you don't take your eye out, with that knee jerk.
D-Queued said:However, if you were sticking to the subject, your sincerity wouldn't be in doubt.
Scott SoCal said:He's been served, to this point, extremely well by keeping his mouth shut. Either he's dumber than I think or something else is up.
MarkvW said:I'm not buying the 'Lance as an Evil Mastermind' theory. He's been boneheaded and stubborn ever since Floyd snitched. He's also tone-deaf to public opinion, and I think he ignored his expensive advisors.
I don't think Lance is teetering on the edge of insanity, either. Go back to 2010 and 2011 and you'll see the same 'Lance is Losing It' theme repeated by the same people, over and over on this forum.
I don't think George is lying to smear Frankie because he is following Lance's master public relations smear plan. Such a smear plan doesn't make any sense to Frankie, because he has too much to lose and zero to gain by it. It doesn't make any sense for Lance to be enlisting Frankie in a further SOL tolling coverup act on the eve of a trial--a trial that puts Lance`s bottom dollar in jeopardy.
It doesn't make sense for George to lie about Frankie, because in the near future he's going to have to either adopt that lie under oath, or admit he was lying to smear Frankie. That would be an idiotic thing for George to do.
Maybe George is just (right or wrong, true or false) saying what he believes to be true?
MarkvW said:Maybe George is just (right or wrong, true or false) saying what he believes to be true?
D-Queued said:You were distorting Betsy's actions. In a Lance thread. With a consistent sub-theme of trying to discredit everyone but Lance.
That was what was happening.
And, it has been going on for a very long time.
Given the long history, please excuse me if your self-correction can be interpreted as transparently insincere.
However, if you were sticking to the subject, your sincerity wouldn't be in doubt.
Dave.
But he did 'lose it'.MarkvW said:I'm not buying the 'Lance as an Evil Mastermind' theory. He's been boneheaded and stubborn ever since Floyd snitched. He's also tone-deaf to public opinion, and I think he ignored his expensive advisors.
I don't think Lance is teetering on the edge of insanity, either. Go back to 2010 and 2011 and you'll see the same 'Lance is Losing It' theme repeated by the same people, over and over on this forum.
MarkvW said:I don't think George is lying to smear Frankie because he is following Lance's master public relations smear plan. Such a smear plan doesn't make any sense to Frankie, because he has too much to lose and zero to gain by it. It doesn't make any sense for Lance to be enlisting Frankie in a further SOL tolling coverup act on the eve of a trial--a trial that puts Lance`s bottom dollar in jeopardy.
It doesn't make sense for George to lie about Frankie, because in the near future he's going to have to either adopt that lie under oath, or admit he was lying to smear Frankie. That would be an idiotic thing for George to do.
Maybe George is just (right or wrong, true or false) saying what he believes to be true?
Nor is LA an evil mastermind - he is again grasping for anything to retain some of his fortune and he has gone back to his default mode which is charm some and slam the rest.
I don't believe George is lying - the statements all seem consistent with the different affidavits (FA, GH, Swart), but it is a lot of spin if anyone is trying to suggest Frankie was the ringleader.
BroDeal said:Nah, could not be. Despite maintaining what he said in his affidavit, which was gold when it was used to convict Armstrong, it is all lies now.
Adding to what MarkW posted, unlike Armstrong, Hincapie seems to have been good about following advice from lawyers and whoever else is giving him counsel. His statements to the press, like his "non-denial, working for a better future" statement that was released as things hotted up, have all been measured and reasonable. He was smart enough or took advice well enough to lay low for a year and a half. If he and his advisers feel it is now time, in the face of the Armstrong movie, Juliet Macur's upcoming book, and Betsy and Tygart's world media tour, to shade the story with a more complete picture of what it was like to make a decision to use EPO then so what? The truth about that works in Armstrong's favor. Are we going to condemn people for telling the truth because it puts Armstrong in a better light?
BroDeal said:I thought the subject was Armstrong, not George Hincapie talked to the press and said little.
When riders claim to have used EPO for just a race or two then everyone laughs at their chutzpah for telling such ludicrous stories unless it is Andreu, in which case the suggestion that he did more than dope for a few races during the six years before stopped, an opinion that has been expressed by many in this forum, is treated as a cunning plan by Armstrong to smear the Andreus.
Maybe all those here who have expressed doubts about the completeness of riders' doing histories given in their affidavits, when they started and when they stopped, are sleeper agents for Public Strategies. Holy crap! I might be a Public Strategies' Manchurian candidate and not even know it.
ChewbaccaD said:"I started doping because I saw EPO in Frankie's fridge"...I'm sorry you don't believe in unicorns.
Dr. Maserati said:But he did 'lose it'.
And it was because as you point out he was boneheaded, stubborn, tone deaf and ignored some of the advise he got.
Nor is LA an evil mastermind - he is again grasping for anything to retain some of his fortune and he has gone back to his default mode which is charm some and slam the rest.
I don't believe George is lying - the statements all seem consistent with the different affidavits (FA, GH, Swart), but it is a lot of spin if anyone is trying to suggest Frankie was the ringleader.
But he did 'lose it'.
And it was because as you point out he was boneheaded, stubborn, tone deaf and ignored some of the advise he got.
Nor is LA an evil mastermind - he is again grasping for anything to retain some of his fortune and he has gone back to his default mode which is charm some and slam the rest.
I don't believe George is lying - the statements all seem consistent with the different affidavits (FA, GH, Swart), but it is a lot of spin if anyone is trying to suggest Frankie was the ringleader
thehog said:I think the point being made is Armstrong's BS lasted a long time. Let's not now apply BS from the other end and speak of back room deals with the press to smear Frankie etc.
We are now at a point whereby the players involved can speak reasonably freely whereas before they could not.
Let's allow from some dialogue on the matter before jumping to ulterior explanations.
ChewbaccaD said:Rule of life: Everybody's got an agenda, including me.
Night Rider said:What is the motive for Lance? To beat the Qui Tam case? What is the motivation for George then?
I'm not giving him stick. It's just he has this habit of rewriting the facts to suit an agenda. I read it from him all the time and I felt the need to comment this time.
Except you've provided zero evidence of this claim.Race Radio said:This is what many here do not get. For several months Lance has been trying to get the "Frankie the pusher" angle into the public domain. This is the best he could do.
thehog said:I think the point being made is Armstrong's BS lasted a long time. Let's not now apply BS from the other end and speak of back room deals with the press to smear Frankie etc.
We are now at a point whereby the players involved can speak reasonably freely whereas before they could not.
Let's allow from some dialogue on the matter before jumping to ulterior explanations.
Dr. Maserati said:I don't believe George is lying - the statements all seem consistent with the different affidavits (FA, GH, Swart), but it is a lot of spin if anyone is trying to suggest Frankie was the ringleader.
BroDeal said:The only spin about Andreu being a ringleader is coming from RR. Hincapie just said that seeing his friend and mentor was using EPO had a strong impact on him. It is ridiculous to leap from that to, "Hincapie accused Andreu of being a ringleader."
skidmark said:I think the topic is Armstrong, not 'George Hincapie talked to the press and said little', but I certainly feel like 'George Hincapie talked to the press about doping for the first time I can remember since his sorta-confession', combined with his friendship with Armstrong, combined with Armstrong's long history of trying to extend his reach through other people and the media to control the narrative, combined with his redemption trail and how that narrative would be served by any story about how it 'wasn't just him', makes this worth a long look. Why do you think differently?