Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[Race Radio]

Lance is in serious trouble
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...ong-federal-lawsuit-future-millions/12758739/

 

[the sceptic]

so us postal got no value out of the sponsorship? and how do we know they didnt know about the doping?

 

[Race Radio]

Some key points of Brent's article

ominous message from a federal judge who recently ruled against him in U.S. District Court.

"This judge has laid it out in rather stark terms, with facts that are not pretty at all for Armstrong,"

Judge Robert Wilkins dealt Armstrong a stinging defeat — an 81-page ruling that denied his request to dismiss the government's case. This rejection wasn't surprising, but buried inside the ruling, Wilkins indicated the government has a strong argument.

Wilkins determined that doping by Armstrong's cycling team would have been a "total breach" of their sponsorship contracts with the Postal Service, which paid $40 million to sponsor the team from 1998 to 2004.

He also wrote, "As such, the Postal Service clearly could have sought restitution — repayment of the sponsorship fees — as a remedy … The Court holds that the plaintiffs have sufficiently pled that the defendants owed an obligation to pay money to the government due to the alleged breach of the sponsorship agreements as a result of the riders' doping."

Independent analysts who reviewed the ruling told USA TODAY Sports that if the government can prove its case — that Armstrong and his teammates doped and lied about it — then it stands a pretty good chance of winning. And because Armstrong and his teammates already have publicly admitted to both allegations, it might not even require a trial. A judge instead could rule in a summary judgment.

"I would think the government here would say Armstrong has admitted he doped, that he admitted he lied about it, why do we need a trial?"

With reverse false claims, the government has a "way of showing quite clearly that Armstrong and the company he worked for did breach the agreements," said Anikeeff, a False Claims Act expert for the firm Williams Mullen. "Now you've got a judge saying that (doping) goes to the core of the (sponsorship) agreement and that it constitutes a False Claims Act violation."

a recent court filing indicated more could be at stake for Armstrong besides money.

"Opposing counsel (for SCA Promotions) passed along a threat he attributed directly to the government, that the slightest misstatement by Armstrong during his deposition could lead to criminal proceedings," according to a filing this week from Armstrong's attorneys.

The government subpoenaed the transcript of that deposition days after it was conducted, the filing states.

"The government's questions are just going to pound him that he misrepresented the facts on this date and on this date and on this date over and over and over again," Anikeeff said. "It's pretty hard to say the other side should have known to the degree that they should have been investigating it."

"If the facts don't go well for Armstrong, he's got both the False Claims Act and a possible $100 million judgment, and he's got the arbitration in Texas for umpteen millions more," Anikeeff said. "At some point you run out of resources."

 

[thehook]

It is a total joke! Does cycling feel that they can expose and belittle Armstrong for a future gain? To give the public a view of how anti doping it is? If that is the case. How about these so called high and mighty who claim the moral high ground. Lead by example! Lets get some independent accounting. How about we get the book$. Lets say pre-Lance 99 Tour. How about we find out all the profit$ made in those 7 years. And lets give it all to charity??? Then come and tell me about about high moral authority!

Never going to happen! You made MILLONS! Yet you chastise the man who lined your pockets.

Was Lance a Bad Dude? NO DOUBT! DOES HE DESERVE HIS BAN? YUP!

But don't tell me after HE gets stripped. All things cycling are correct!

Guy WON TOURS. Take away Indurains, Fignon, go down the list tell me they are all clean???? Try to do it with a straight face?

That is BS.

 

[ChrisE]

Yeah, but as the article states the contract was between USPS and Tailwind. Did the contract between the riders and Tailwind have liability to the govt. as well if they doped?

Has it been established he was an owner in Tailwind? We had this discussion a few years ago on the forum and I don't believe it was conclusive he was an owner during the sponsorship, or at least during the whole period.

 

[Race Radio]

If Lance has so much "influence" that he can derail a criminal investigation, then why doesn't that influence derail the civil lawsuit that probably threatens him with bankruptcy?

http://www.mainjustice.com/2013/02/06/report-lance-armstrong-may-face-federal-prosecution-after-all/

Today, a high level source told ABC News, "Birotte does not speak for the federal government as a whole."

"Agents are actively investigating Armstrong for obstruction, witness tampering and intimidation."

 

[Race Radio]

Whats not logical is picking and choosing who to investigate in the last 50 years. If we are going to vacate Armstrong then lets be fair and get delgado, big mig, contador, merck, schleck. I am in favor of investigating them all rather then picking one era and I am pretty far from a fan boy

I understand that some here have no interest in due process but there are rules. Big Mig, Delgado, Merckx, never signed the WADA code. There is no way to go after them. Lance, Jan, Mayo, Heras, Scarponi, Basso, Vino, Valverde, Contador, all were caught based on the rules.

 

[DirtyWorks]

...and how do we know they didnt know about the doping?

I don't think I'm posting anything controversial when I state that we'll never know the answer to that question.

USPS will officially convey shock, just like Captain Renault in Casablanca, when they discovered USPS was doping.

What actually happened? Smart people at USPS wouldn't ask and wouldn't want to know.

 

[Race Radio]

I don't think I'm posting anything controversial when I state that we'll never know the answer to that question.

USPS will officially convey shock, just like Captain Renault in Casablanca, when they discovered USPS was doping.

What actually happened? Smart people at USPS wouldn't ask and wouldn't want to know.

To be fair to the folks at USPS. I met several of them back in the early 00's......Completely clueless groupies who chugged the yellow cool-aide like I drink bourbon.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

If Lance has so much "influence" that he can derail a criminal investigation, then why doesn't that influence derail the civil lawsuit that probably threatens him with bankruptcy?

The simplest answer is usually the best: Legal considerations drive both.

You've been playing this line of crap since it happened...only you buy it.

But your identity is still safe...Birotte doesn't know who you are, so make sure you don't say something bad about him...he might hunt you down.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Who is a winner, if Lance isn't? Pereiro? Menchov? Heras? I can't sort it out. The whole thing is a big mess.

Ah yes, the fanboy in you just cannot stay hidden...

 

[ChewbaccaD]

If money is the measure of success, then I'm compelled to agree with you. If we're talking about "winning" in the sporting sense, though, Floyd is just another cheater. If we're talking about winning in the professional cycling sense, Floyd is a champion!

Hey, why not drag out the "Frankie helped Lance dope" line too

 

[ChewbaccaD]

I watched those Tours and knew he was cheating. He never "won" them in my mind. Knew....he....was....cheating. It's that simple.

This...........

 

[mewmewmew13]

This...........

Double this!
He cheated to 'win' the fecking jerseys in the first place..I don't think any of the jerseys should go to any cheater. It was his hubris and idiocy that led to the loss of them...why the heck should he get them back?

 

[sittingbison]

gentle(wo)men,
lay off the personal insults please.

Post not poster

cheers
bison

 

[Puckfiend]

By the time the feds get thru with Lance, you might be able to buy those "yellow johnnys" on Ebay.

 

[Race Radio]

Gonna say it, Lance's legal team is bleeding him dry. They can't be so stupid to not realize what huge trouble he is in. They are likely just sick of dealing with him and want to take as much money as possible.

 

[MarkvW]

You've been playing this line of crap since it happened...only you buy it.

But your identity is still safe...Birotte doesn't know who you are, so make sure you don't say something bad about him...he might hunt you down.

You are so unfair. I've been ordered to cease and desist by Berzin, so I can't respond.

 

[PosterBill]

I understand that some here have no interest in due process but there are rules. Big Mig, Delgado, Merckx, never signed the WADA code. There is no way to go after them. Lance, Jan, Mayo, Heras, Scarponi, Basso, Vino, Valverde, Contador, all were caught based on the rules.

Would the rules prevent an investigation and a subsequent asterisk key beside the winner's name? If you can't strip them of the titles then why not do the next best thing? Surely a sporting govt that was once ran like a banana republic can amend/change a rule...

 

[Merckx index]

Gonna say it, Lance's legal team is bleeding him dry. They can't be so stupid to not realize what huge trouble he is in. They are likely just sick of dealing with him and want to take as much money as possible.

What are your estimates of a possible settlement? How likely and how much? Supposedly the government wanted, I keep forgetting what was reported, something like $13 million? You said you knew someone who reported some offer to you. Seems at this point $20-30 million would be a bargain for LA, assuming the government would take it. But maybe he can't even afford that, particularly if he's going to lose a lot to SCA.

 

[Race Radio]

What are your estimates of a possible settlement? How likely and how much? Supposedly the government wanted, I keep forgetting what was reported, something like $13 million? You said you knew someone who reported some offer to you. Seems at this point $20-30 million would be a bargain for LA, assuming the government would take it. But maybe he can't even afford that, particularly if he's going to lose a lot to SCA.

I can't image he could settle at this point for under $40 million, $50M is more likely.

He is not going to settle. He is all in for the long haul. It will be a mess

 

[Alpe73]

So was Ben Johnson

Spot on!

That's exactly how it happened; Ben won that race.

 

[thehog]

No, 86TDF is. He’s the one claiming that LA’s connections are all that are preventing him from being put away from life now. Actually, 86TDF said LA was “much worse” than Madoff, so I guess he thinks LA deserves the death penalty, since that is the only sentence worth than life imprisonment. Except that now 86TDF has been called out, he says he was being factious, i.e., intentionally trying to create divisions, which is a pretty good definition of trolling, though to be fair I think he meant facetious.

So if I understand the new, revised 86TDF correctly, he thinks LA deserves the same life imprisonment as Madoff, not anything worse, because he ripped off the foundation, though the foundation itself has not filed any charges, and neither as far as I know have any cancer patients. Except that he was being factious, or probably facetious, so doesn't really mean it. So I guess he doesn't think LA should be in jail for life, even though he also says LA would have been without connections.



Psst, I’m a cancer researcher, and I know they’re an awareness foundation. That does not rise to the crime of a Madoff. In fact, it’s not a crime at all that I’m aware of.

To be fair on Bernie he did have a lot people invest with him of their own accord. A lot of them were fairly thick not to realise that his year on year gains defied all known logic. He was not culpable alone. Along with the fact that every investment bank in town knew he was a shiester along with the SEC jumping into to bed with him along with the government.

 

[MarkvW]

I still think that there is a large possibility that Lance Armstrong went under oath in the criminal investigation, just like all the other Posties. That would explain the pucker factor involved.

If I was an uncorrupt, uninfluenced United States Attorney wanting to dump an iffy old criminal doping / fraud case, I'd want to get Lance under oath just so the civil US Attorneys would have Lance pinned down to the paraffin. I'd also warn sorry old Lance, that he'd better not ever stray too far from the truth in the future, or we would meet again in a heightened adversarial setting.

But that's just my fantasy. This scenario is completely impossible, contrary to Clinic dogma, completely wrongheaded.

 

[thehog]

I still think that there is a large possibility that Lance Armstrong went under oath in the criminal investigation, just like all the other Posties. That would explain the pucker factor involved.

If I was an uncorrupt, uninfluenced United States Attorney wanting to dump an iffy old criminal doping case, I'd want to get Lance under oath just so the civil US Attorneys would have Lance pinned down to the paraffin. I'd also warn sorry old Lance, that he'd better not ever stray too far from the truth in the future, or we would meet again in a heightened adversarial setting.

But that's just my fantasy. This scenario is completely impossible, contrary to Clinic dogma, completely wrongheaded.

What is absurd is the notion that his lawyers are bleeding him dry. What alternative does he have? To represent as a layperson? Of course he has to appoint representation. By not doing so would be absurd.