Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[MarkvW]

Ahh . . .

The Lance is Loved vs the Lance is Not Loved Debate, and

The Lance Should Be Loved vs The Lance Shouldn't Be Loved Debate

 

[thehog]

It's a stupid comment in regards to cricket. Because cricket before cycling had it's own problems with corruption and interplay between players, betting rings and organised crime.

Hansie Cronje the South African captain who was also a born again Christian accepted money from Indian bookmakers to change elements of international matches.

Shane Warne, Mark Waugh from Australia have also been involved along with countless ****stan players. The former ****stan coach was murdered due to not throwing a game.

Cricket has had it's problems, still does and is the focus of contestant investigation from local police to Interpol.

Lance thinks he's picked on and that cycling is singled out. It's not. All sports and it's sports people are not above the law.

From what Lance is telling us it ok to abscond with 5 million of SCAs money. He really is a stupid person.

Fun talk from Lance in Aspen:









http://www.aspentimes.com/article/20110729/NEWS/110729820/1077&ParentProfile=1058

 

[Polish]

If you want anecdotal circumstantial evidence why Motorola decided circa 1994, allegedly driven by team leader LA (according to sworn statements by Stephen Swart), to collectively join their competing teams in "preparing" for races look at this brief TT clip from the 1994 TdF - Indurain doing a quick catch and pass on LA, 1993 World RR champion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmR9k8UAohs&feature=related

Do some research Velodude.
That was an awesome TT by young Lance.
Check Lance's average speed that day.
Big Mig started that TT right behind Lance.
8th and 7th on GC at that point.
Young Lance's TT time compared very favorably to all the top tt'ers that day - except Big Mig.
He creamed everybody.

 

[davestoller]

"Getting to Aspen" has everything to do with being very rich. I guess this shows that just becaus you are rich, doesn't mean you are not a ******bag.

All the negative stereotypes about Aspen aside, though, everyone I’ve ever met there in the area has actually been really cool. These peeps were not rich, just locals working for a living trying to enjoy the lifestyle…. not even homeowners (which would explain the difference in their socio-economic status). I’ve climbed a 14-er there, snowboarded at all four ski-areas, and mountain biked and road biked there. Conversely, doing a road race near Grand Junction, the one guy from Aspen is our pack was a bossy *&^%$# telling us all how to ride (for his benefit) so we eventually dropped him.

My hypothesis: the types who would go to this talk in Aspen given by Lance are the rich types who want to be associated with a celebrity who is probably even richer than they are, they probably don’t pay attention to what he has done behind the scenes within cycling to perpetuate his image, and the people he has hurt. Maybe they are the types who wouldn’t care. I’ve never believed that you get to be rich in this world by being a nice person. There is something about Lance's "getting to Aspen" comment that rubs me the wrong way.... he bought his way in with money earned in dubious ways.

You've climbed fourteen thousand foot mountains, snowboarded all the 4 mnts, mnt biked and road biked there, and did a road race at Grand Junction-and dropped the local guy acclimated to living @ 8,000 feet. Wow!

We are impressed with our (fake) selves aren't we?

Despite this familiarity, you apparently have no clue what The Aspen Institute is or who goes there? It is not a bunch of locals, the rich folks you think. People fly there from all over the world to hear the speakers and participate. They may be rich but...

TO wit:
http://www.aspeninstitute.org/policy-work/homeland-security/security-forum

"Armstrong spoke before a standing-room crowd of more than 500 people at the Greenwald Pavilion during a conversation with Aspen Institute President and CEO Walter Isaacson. "

and: http://www.aspeninstitute.org/about
A non-profit values based institution...invites Lance...who raised $400 million dollars for cancer research...you can kinda see where this is going?

You may disagree...but there it is.

 

[Velodude]

Do some research Velodude.
That was an awesome TT by young Lance.
Check Lance's average speed that day.
Big Mig started that TT right behind Lance.
8th and 7th on GC at that point.
Young Lance's TT time compared very favorably to all the top tt'ers that day - except Big Mig.
He creamed everybody.

Young Lance's average speed must have not been exceptional in the 1994 ITT cos he came 13th - 6'.23" behind Big Mig.

He had to contract and survive cancer so as to become an exceptional GC competitive climber and time trialler from 1999. In 1994 he abandoned after Stage 14.

 

[MacRoadie]

and: http://www.aspeninstitute.org/about
A non-profit values based institution...invites Lance...who raised $400 million dollars for cancer research...you can kinda see where this is going?

Yeah, it's going the way of the "1,000 tests" and "most tested athlete ever".

How much, exactly, has been raised (by Armstrong personally, or LAF/LiveStrong) for research?

How much has actually been injected back into the cancer community? What percentage is consumed by operating costs and overhead and how does that stack up with other not-for-profit organizations?

How does their fund rasing efforts re: research stack up with those of say, The American Cancer Society, The American Lung Association, or Susan G. Koman for the Cure?

 

[hrotha]

Young Lance's average speed must have not been exceptional in the 1994 ITT cos he came 13th - 6'.23" behind Big Mig.

He had to contract and survive cancer so as to become an exceptional GC competitive climber and time trialler from 1999. In 1994 he abandoned after Stage 14.

I'd say 13th is a good result for a 22-year-old. Pre-Ferrari (was that also pre-EPO?) Armstrong was a pretty solid time-trialist.

 

[Berzin]

Armstrong doesn't seem all that worried about the investigation.

It doesn't seem as if he's losing it all. In fact, he appears to be going forth with business as usual.

Just using the investigation as a platform for those he charges speaking engagement fees to feel sorry for him or to see him as a martyr.

What I would like to know is what Interpol is getting or has gotten out of the good doctor Michele Ferrari.

That to me would be more interesting than whatever Lance has to say at this point.

 

[Polish]

Young Lance's average speed must have not been exceptional in the 1994 ITT cos he came 13th - 6'.23" behind Big Mig.

He had to contract and survive cancer so as to become an exceptional GC competitive climber and time trialler from 1999. In 1994 he abandoned after Stage 14.

Young Lance's time WAS exceptional.

TT Specialist extrordinaire 94 World TT Champ Chris Boardman finished 5 and a half minutes behind Big Mig that day btw.
Again, Big Mig creamed everybody.

Even back then, and before as a matter of fact - Lance was tipped to WIN the TdF someday.
Easy call.

 

[Iker_Baqueiro]

Armstrong doesn't seem all that worried about the investigation.

It doesn't seem as if he's losing it all. In fact, he appears to be going forth with business as usual.

Just using the investigation as a platform for those he charges speaking engagement fees to feel sorry for him or to see him as a martyr.

What I would like to know is what Interpol is getting or has gotten out of the good doctor Michele Ferrari.

That to me would be more interesting than whatever Lance has to say at this point.

Remember what Machiavelli had to say about this:

"When you're weak, fake you are strong".

 

[l.Harm]

Remember what Machiavelli had to say about this:

"When you're weak, fake you are strong".

I hate this kind of arguments lol.

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah, it's going the way of the "1,000 tests" and "most tested athlete ever".

How much, exactly, has been raised (by Armstrong personally, or LAF/LiveStrong) for research?

How much has actually been injected back into the cancer community? What percentage is consumed by operating costs and overhead and how does that stack up with other not-for-profit organizations?

How does their fund rasing efforts re: research stack up with those of say, The American Cancer Society, The American Lung Association, or Susan G. Koman for the Cure?

He didn't get the memo. It was money for "cancer awareness," not "research." Because before Lance, people were not aware of cancer.

 

[Anonymous]

Young Lance's time WAS exceptional.

TT Specialist extrordinaire 94 World TT Champ Chris Boardman finished 5 and a half minutes behind Big Mig that day btw.
Again, Big Mig creamed everybody.

Even back then, and before as a matter of fact - Lance was tipped to WIN the TdF someday.
Easy call.

No they didn't. I remember when he won San Sebastian, the headline was "Like a Buffalo." That type of headline is for fat guys who climb too well. Nobody thought he would win the TdF. He was tipped as a classics guy only. Then he got cancer and it did for him what it has never done for anyone else in the history of mankind...no wait, that was Ferrari.

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

Remember what Machiavelli had to say about this:

"When you're weak, fake you are strong".

Yup. I often say this. I have to because I often suck.

 

[Berzin]

No they didn't. I remember when he won San Sebastian, the headline was "Like a Buffalo." That type of headline is for fat guys who climb too well. Nobody thought he would win the TdF. He was tipped as a classics guy only. Then he got cancer and it did for him what it has never done for anyone else in the history of mankind...no wait, that was Ferrari.

Every now and then we get a great piece of insightful writing that puts everything into perspective. The underlined sentence is one of those moments.

(Mind if I use it on my blog?)

Polish, you are walking a tightrope without a tightrope. It's always one lie after another with you. No one in their right mind would have ever predicted Armstrong would become a Tour winner back then. NO ONE. And that's because he wasn't. And still is not. Those seven Tours were all frauds, like it or not.

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

Polish, you are walking a tightrope without a tightrope. It's always one lie after another with you. I remember in his first book Armstrong was supposedly told by Eddy Merckx that he had all the attributes to win the Tour.

I don't believe this happened until he won his first Tour, which is when Eddy probably felt it was time to jump on the bandwagon. It sounds like a backdated quote like that TUE from the '99 Tour.

I remember distinctly in the early to mid-90s it being reported that Merckx said that Armstrong could never win the Tour. There has definitely been some revision going on.

 

[Polish]

I remember distinctly in the early to mid-90s it being reported that Merckx said that Armstrong could never win the Tour. There has definitely been some revision going on.

Well it turns out Eddy was wrong huh?
He IS the King, but not infallible lol.

C'mon guys, it is time to stop gulping the HaterAide.
It tastes terrible. You know it does. Can't deny it. Yuk.

Come on - If you were watching and paying attention during Lance's early awesome exploits, you would have heard many comparisions to Greg LeMond.
"Lance is the next Greg LeMond".

And not just as a Great One Day Rider.
But a Tour Champ.
It used to rile Lance a bit. Did not like the comparision. Greg was awesomer.
Back then.

Sure, most people predicting Lance winning the Tour were not super cycling experts. That is true. Winning the Tour takes a lot of WORK.

Except for one person.
He WAS a super cycling expert.
Eddie B.
"Nostradamski"
Greg's mentor and Coach.

Armstrong has pedaled the popular inland North County cycling roads often, dating to the early 1990s when a teenaged Armstrong trained with the Subaru-Montgomery team, coached by Eddie Borysewicz, aka Eddie B.

Riding in a support car as the cyclists logged miles in rural Escondido, Babbitt asked Borysewicz his impressions of Armstrong.

In his thick Polish accent, Eddie B. said: “Lance has diamond legs. Lance is next Greg LeMond. Lance will win Tour de France.”

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2009/feb/21/1s21lance233434-legend-lance/

 

[Velodude]

...<snip>.....Polish, you are walking a tightrope without a tightrope. It's always one lie after another with you. No one in their right mind would have ever predicted Armstrong would become a Tour winner back then. NO ONE. And that's because he wasn't. And still is not. Those seven Tours were all frauds, like it or not.

Berzin, you beat me to discrediting Polish's fanciful claims about her hero pre 1999 re being touted as a prospective GT winner.

I dug out some past researched comments referring to books that had been written about wonderboy's future prospects of winning a high level multi stage race.

David Walsh's "Inside the TDF" about the TDF was published and in it he interviews LA - see NeoPro chapter.
LA explain to DW that "I never realised just how far the step was from triathlon to professional cycling. Cycling is the toughest sport there is"
"I train like I have never trained before"
"I try to so hard that I sometimes think I can't train any harder"

Cycle Sport 1995 : Dr.Max Testa doctor to Motorola Cycling team
"Lance is a great athlete, albeit a one day cyclist. The tests show that he is
not at Indurain's, Rominger's or Jalabert's level.
This is why he cannot perform in stage races.
I would say that Indurain and Pantani and the others are at a level above Lance"
Asked about LA's prospects Dr Testa says "Overall stage race contention is
not a target at present. His recovery level is excellent and he has a great turn of speed, but he cannot generate the power of an Indurain or Pantani"

Graham Fifes "Inside the Peloton" - "after winning the 1993 stage to Verdun, Lance Armstrong was physically exhausted - so much so that he was incapable of speaking, never mind getting out of bed.
His fellow Motorola colleagues had to persuade him to continue to try to race "
(he dropped out of the TDF a stage later).

LA sycophant Graham Watson "Lance Armstrong Portrait of a Champion" published June 2004.
Miguel Indurain "when Lance came to the peloton first, we knew he was a good rider. I never thought he was capable of winning a TDF - never mind 5 T's DF.
He has won 5 T'sDF (at the time of writing) but he cannot take my title away from me - I was first to win 5 consecutive T'sDF"
Eddy Merckx "I never thought he could win a TDF..."

 

[MacRoadie]

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2009/feb/21/1s21lance233434-legend-lance/

Eddie B. and Subaru/Montgomery

Chris Carmichael

Michele Ferrari


Do you really want to go down THAT road?

 

[Polish]

Berzin, you beat me to discrediting Polish's fanciful claims about her hero pre 1999 re being touted as a prospective GT winner.

I dug out some past researched comments referring to books that had been written about wonderboy's future prospects of winning a high level multi stage race.

Yes, many people predicted Lance would not win the Tour.
And many predicted he would.

Some were wrong.
Some were right.

Its ok to be wrong you know.
And Its ok to be right too.

Sometimes it is hard to admit you are wrong.
And Sometimes it is hard not to gloat when you are right.
But it is ALWAYS hard to win the TdF.
One Two Three Four Five Six Seven

 

[Velodude]

I'd say 13th is a good result for a 22-year-old. Pre-Ferrari (was that also pre-EPO?) Armstrong was a pretty solid time-trialist.

Not compared with other more worthy 22 somethings:

Merckx won his first Giro in 1968 at the age of 22 (also KOM and Points). At 23 his first TdF win.

TdF winners at 23 years of age - Anquetil (1957), Hinault (1978), Fignon (1983), Ullrich (1997)

Lance Edward Armstrong (nee Gunderson) was a ripe old age of near 28 when he found that being a cancer survivor was the secret to success.

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

Check this out. Armstrong is a huge d-bag.

In addition to Wednesday's lay-off, I had other news, which I chose to Tweet, using my Twitter account for the first time in six months or so:

@Charles_Pelkey
A bit nervous. On top of everything, cancer surgery on Tuesday. All I ask, though, just please don't buy me a @#$%ing yellow rubberband

Apparently that raised the ire of a Twitterer (Twit?) with more than a Bazzillion followers and he felt compelled to respond with

@lancearmstrong
@Charles_Pelkey wow. stay classy charles.

Cool. Now what can a guy say, but

@Charles_Pelkey
@lancearmstrong I will. I promise. Can you make the same commitment?

Weird. Never thought I would get into a ****ing match with the world's greatest anti-cancer crusader on the eve of cancer surgery.

http://forums.competitor.com/topic/8683/page/2

 

[Anonymous]

Every now and then we get a great piece of insightful writing that puts everything into perspective. The underlined sentence is one of those moments.

(Mind if I use it on my blog?)

Polish, you are walking a tightrope without a tightrope. It's always one lie after another with you. No one in their right mind would have ever predicted Armstrong would become a Tour winner back then. NO ONE. And that's because he wasn't. And still is not. Those seven Tours were all frauds, like it or not.

You don't even have to credit me.

 

[Anonymous]

Well it turns out Eddy was wrong huh?
He IS the King, but not infallible lol.

C'mon guys, it is time to stop gulping the HaterAide.
It tastes terrible. You know it does. Can't deny it. Yuk.

Come on - If you were watching and paying attention during Lance's early awesome exploits, you would have heard many comparisions to Greg LeMond.
"Lance is the next Greg LeMond".

And not just as a Great One Day Rider.
But a Tour Champ.
It used to rile Lance a bit. Did not like the comparision. Greg was awesomer.
Back then.

Sure, most people predicting Lance winning the Tour were not super cycling experts. That is true. Winning the Tour takes a lot of WORK.

Except for one person.
He WAS a super cycling expert.
Eddie B.
"Nostradamski"
Greg's mentor and Coach.



http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2009/feb/21/1s21lance233434-legend-lance/

Lance Armstrong thought Tommy D was the next Lance Armstrong. Goes to show WTF he knew, yea?

Anyway, Eddie B knows dope lol. Not riders.

 

[GreasyMonkey]

Losing influence....

Looks like Pharma-wonder-boy will lose another person of influence soon.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-new...-facing-a-leadership-coup-20110730-1i5kg.html

Maybe there will be an un-ravelling of the South Australian government's LA love-in