Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[hrotha]

Not compared with other more worthy 22 somethings:

Merckx won his first Giro in 1968 at the age of 22 (also KOM and Points). At 23 his first TdF win.

TdF winners at 23 years of age - Anquetil (1957), Hinault (1978), Fignon (1983), Ullrich (1997)

Lance Edward Armstrong (nee Gunderson) was a ripe old age of near 28 when he found that being a cancer survivor was the secret to success.

You're preaching to the choir here. I didn't say he was world class, I said he was pretty good. Just because he's the Antichrist that doesn't mean he didn't have talent.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Yes, many people predicted Lance would not win the Tour.
And many predicted he would.

Some were wrong.
Some were right.

You are full of BS and lies up to your eyeballs. Not one person with anything resembling knowledge of bicycle racing, not even Armstrong pre and post-cancer, thought he was a future Tour winner. Armstrong has stated in one of his books (It's Not About the Bike, IIRC) that not even he believed he could win the Tour until Johan put the idea in his head at the start of the 1999 season.

The only talk, unless you can document otherwise, was that he would be a good classics rider and that he could be expected to win stages at the Tour. Note--Armstrong was NEVER touted as a potential Green Jersey winner at the Tour, either.

Your attempts at revisionist history writing are pathetic and appear to me to be purposeful lies on your part. I hope the moderators consider suspending you for a while until you learn what truth and fact checking are about.

 

[MarkvW]

You are full of BS and lies up to your eyeballs. Not one person with anything resembling knowledge of bicycle racing, not even Armstrong pre and post-cancer, thought he was a future Tour winner. Armstrong has stated in one of his books (It's Not About the Bike, IIRC) that not even he believed he could win the Tour until Johan put the idea in his head at the start of the 1999 season.

The only talk, unless you can document otherwise, was that he would be a good classics rider and that he could be expected to win stages at the Tour. Note--Armstrong was NEVER touted as a potential Green Jersey winner at the Tour, either.

Your attempts at revisionist history writing are pathetic and appear to me to be purposeful lies on your part. I hope the moderators consider suspending you for a while until you learn what truth and fact checking are about.

It is possible for you to forcefully make your points without personal attacks. Why don't you try it? The exercise will help refine the quality of your argument.

And what is the difference between a "purposeful lie" and a "lie," anyway?

 

[Cimacoppi49]

It is possible for you to forcefully make your points without personal attacks. Why don't you try it? The exercise will help refine the quality of your argument.

And what is the difference between a "purposeful lie" and a "lie," anyway?

We all make mistakes unintentionally in stating what we think are facts. That is not a problem, for me. However, when a poster consistently and repeatedly misstates facts, I have no choice but to conclude there is purposeful intent to the misstatements. IMO, there is no place for that behavior in a discussion setting and such actors should not be given access unless and until they demonstrate the ability and desire to in good faith check their factual assertions for accuracy. My opinion--yours may differ.

As to lies and purposeful lies, it is a difference noted by Sartre, and to an extent recognized in legal theory. It is a case of willing to will an act.

 

[davestoller]

Lance Armstrong thought Tommy D was the next Lance Armstrong. Goes to show WTF he knew, yea?

Anyway, Eddie B knows dope lol. Not riders.

Eddy was absolutely right about Lance.

It was purely political that Eddy and his team were shoved aside, for the ones that became the LA entourage.

No one who knows their stuff doubts that Eddy knew more about training, diet, physiology and adaptation in his day. Period.
( He was also waaaay ahead og his time in terms of diet, organic food, gluten many other things that have now caught on)
As Eddy always said: "You pay what you get for!"

 

[Race Radio]

Eddy was absolutely right about Lance.

You mean when he said Lance should not have been on the Olympic team because there were plenty of guys faster then him?

Eddie B became a lot more honest about Wonderboy when he was no longer his meal ticket

 

[Polish]

You are full of BS and lies up to your eyeballs. Not one person with anything resembling knowledge of bicycle racing, not even Armstrong pre and post-cancer, thought he was a future Tour winner. Armstrong has stated in one of his books (It's Not About the Bike, IIRC) that not even he believed he could win the Tour until Johan put the idea in his head at the start of the 1999 season.

The only talk, unless you can document otherwise, was that he would be a good classics rider and that he could be expected to win stages at the Tour. Note--Armstrong was NEVER touted as a potential Green Jersey winner at the Tour, either.

Your attempts at revisionist history writing are pathetic and appear to me to be purposeful lies on your part. I hope the moderators consider suspending you for a while until you learn what truth and fact checking are about.

Can't handle the truth it seems like.
"Please mods, please make him stop waawaa"
lol.

C'mon Cimacoppi49, when so many were saying that Lance would be the next Greg Lemond, what do you think they were talking about?

Not the Green Jersey - the Yellow Jersey.
Not a one day classics rider like Greg - but a TdF Victory.

If there were interweb forums back then, there would have been threads:
"Lance will win the Tour someday".

Sure, having pundits saying Lance will win the Tour someday is one thing.
But having Experts like Eddie B predict it is quite another.

Lance will win the tour someday

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2009/feb/21/1s21lance233434-legend-lance/

And this nice summary of those early years by Outside Magazine:

No need to take on the Tour de France and the legacy of Greg LeMond. Not at age 22.

But the thinking is that Armstrong will get there, just as LeMond did, winning the Tour on his third try, at 25. His time-trialing and climbing capabilites will develop over years. He'll utimately lose a few pounds in his upper body to make it easier to attack mountain stage after mountain stage. This year he'll probably stay in the race through the Pyrenees but won't be around for the last punishing week in the Alps. "Anybody who says Lance Armstrong doesn't have the capability to win the Tour someday is either stupid or jealous," says Carmichael.

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoo...--I-m-the-First-Lance-Armstrong--.html?page=6

I will guess you are just jealous Cimacoppi49

 

[ChrisE]

You mean when he said Lance should not have been on the Olympic team because there were plenty of guys faster then him?

Eddie B became a lot more honest about Wonderboy when he was no longer his meal ticket

BS. This is where you lose credibility and your hate screws your brain.

If he did say that he is an idiot, as well as you for believing it.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

BS. This is where you lose credibility and your hate screws your brain.

If he did say that he is an idiot, as well as you for believing it.

Eddie B. has always had problems with consistency and truth telling. He has a long standing habit of telling people what they want to hear. I do recall another national team rider dressing him down about Armstrong's capabilities--at a race in NYC in the early 1990s. Note to Polish--I witnessed that first hand.

 

[ChrisE]

Eddie B. has always had problems with consistency and truth telling. He has a long standing habit of telling people what they want to hear. I do recall another national team rider dressing him down about Armstrong's capabilities--at a race in NYC in the early 1990s. Note to Polish--I witnessed that first hand.

I don't follow. Another rider was dressing EB down, after EB was trashing LA, or the opposite??

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Can't handle the truth it seems like.
"Please mods, please make him stop waawaa"
lol.

C'mon Cimacoppi49, when so many were saying that Lance would be the next Greg Lemond, what do you think they were talking about?

So many??!! You've come up with two. One who told people whatever they wanted to hear and the other a fellow doper and business partner of Armstrong's. Give us some independent, cycling journalists/experts who predicted Armstrong would be a Tour winner one day.

Not the Green Jersey - the Yellow Jersey.
Not a one day classics rider like Greg - but a TdF Victory.

My point was to preempt you from claiming there was talk about his ever winning the Green Jersey.

If there were interweb forums back then, there would have been threads:
"Lance will win the Tour someday".

I was on the only true cycling forum back then, rec.bicycles.racing, from 1994 on and I can tell you nobody was of the opinion that Armstrong would one day win the Tour. Where were you back then, Polish?

Sure, having pundits saying Lance will win the Tour someday is one thing.
But having Experts like Eddie B predict it is quite another.


http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2009/feb/21/1s21lance233434-legend-lance/
See my prior post commenting on Eddie B in this thread above.
And this nice summary of those early years by Outside Magazine:


http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoo...--I-m-the-First-Lance-Armstrong--.html?page=6

I will guess you are just jealous Cimacoppi49

You're a poser, Polish. Nothing more. A poser who can't speak with factual accuracy worth a s**t.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

I don't follow. Another rider was dressing EB down, after EB was trashing LA, or the opposite??

The opposite. Eddie was touting Armstrong. My memory is vague, but I think this was 1990 or 1991.

 

[Race Radio]

Eddie B. has always had problems with consistency and truth telling. He has a long standing habit of telling people what they want to hear. I do recall another national team rider dressing him down about Armstrong's capabilities--at a race in NYC in the early 1990s. Note to Polish--I witnessed that first hand.

Where do you think the nickname "Wonderboy" came from? I didn't make it up.

Eddie B was trying to save his job and was promoting that he had the "Next Greg LeMond" the others on the team knew this was BS so they started calling him Wonderboy

 

[Race Radio]

BS. This is where you lose credibility and your hate screws your brain.

If he did say that he is an idiot, as well as you for believing it.

Calling me an idiot makes you lose your creditably

Tyler Hamilton "deserved to be on the Olympic team,"

"there's 10 much faster guys, minimum, than Lance (Armstrong),"

http://www.ltolman.org/93arch/70796.htm

 

[Polish]

snip

10 guys stronger than Lance

Tyler Hamilton

snip
http://www.ltolman.org/93arch/70796.htm

10 guys stronger in a SPRINT.

Not 10 stronger riders.

Certainly not 10 guys stronger in a Grand Tour.
Eddie B said that Lance would win the TdF as you know.
Not the Green Jersey.
Many people predicted that Lance would win the TdF.

 

[ChrisE]

Calling me an idiot makes you lose your creditably

RR, I am not disputing he said it. I am critical of you holding the same opinion.

Yeah, he didn't deserve to be on the Olympic team, after the azz he kicked up to that point, winning the US amateur in 1991, and he finished 2nd in San Sebastian a couple of months later.

Are you on crack?

 

[Anonymous]

Can't handle the truth it seems like.
"Please mods, please make him stop waawaa"
lol.

C'mon Cimacoppi49, when so many were saying that Lance would be the next Greg Lemond, what do you think they were talking about?

Not the Green Jersey - the Yellow Jersey.
Not a one day classics rider like Greg - but a TdF Victory.

If there were interweb forums back then, there would have been threads:
"Lance will win the Tour someday".

Sure, having pundits saying Lance will win the Tour someday is one thing.
But having Experts like Eddie B predict it is quite another.


http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2009/feb/21/1s21lance233434-legend-lance/

And this nice summary of those early years by Outside Magazine:


http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoo...--I-m-the-First-Lance-Armstrong--.html?page=6

I will guess you are just jealous Cimacoppi49

Yea, one of the guys who knew most about Lances junkie doping habits tipped him to transform into a climber capable of winning the TdF...insider knowledge rules, just ask dudes from Wall St. lol.

But it was cancer, the miracle cure for sub-par physiology that really did the trick, right?? lol.

Cancer won the Tour 7 times!!!

...but Cancer couldn't win it 8 lol.

 

[davestoller]

Where do you think the nickname "Wonderboy" came from? I didn't make it up.

Eddie B was trying to save his job and was promoting that he had the "Next Greg LeMond" the others on the team knew this was BS so they started calling him Wonderboy

Wrong. Wrong. and Wrong.

Everyone in the cycling community in the U.S. had heard about LA in triathlon and his early cycling feats. Before there was any reason to think of him as a meal ticket, to take sides or anything.
So, the story goes, the word on the street was "there was some beast" down in Texas and did EddyB, Carmichael, Fraysee or whomever or someone want to go have a look.
Lance went out to California, Eddy said he was one of if not the hugest talent he had ever seen, but needed a lot or work, discipline, training whatever.
THe rest of the story is people then trying to co-opt LA to their group, get him out of triathlon, and the rest is history.

SO what if you saw some envious, disgruntled hack on the National Team ranting about Lance and Eddy B promoting him? Don't you think this doesnt happen on every team when some new kid shows up who is suddenly by far the biggest talent and displaces everyone else? Just proves the point. Where is that disgruntled hack now? Where is Lance now?

And don't forget, Lance's record breaking VO2Max at Cooper Aerobics in Dallas was done way before he had gone into cycling. Way before any possible PED enhancement. Before EPO. This was late 80s. He was a teenager. The people who administer the tests are some of the best experts in the world. This was part of the growing pre-legend that made EddyB take a look at him to begin with.
"There's word that there is some beast down in Texas..." funny

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Wrong. Wrong. and Wrong.


And don't forget, Lance's record breaking VO2Max at Cooper Aerobics in Dallas was done way before he had gone into cycling. Way before any possible PED enhancement. Before EPO. This was late 80s. He was a teenager. The people who administer the tests are some of the best experts in the world. This was part of the growing pre-legend that made EddyB take a look at him to begin with.
"There's word that there is some beast down in Texas..." funny

Tell me about that "record breaking" VO2Max. Where, when and by whom was it measured?
As far as I know, according to Armstrong's web site, his VO2Max was never higher than 83. I recall that Lemond's was measured at 93. Kindly clarify your assertion with facts to back it up.

I assume you refer to the 12 min running Cooper Test that has a rough correlation to VO2Max. What was his result according to Cooper?

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Yea, one of the guys who knew most about Lances junkie doping habits tipped him to transform into a climber capable of winning the TdF...insider knowledge rules, just ask dudes from Wall St. lol.

But it was cancer, the miracle cure for sub-par physiology that really did the trick, right?? lol.

Cancer won the Tour 7 times!!!

...but Cancer couldn't win it 8 lol.

Cancer and greater muscle efficiency according to Eddie Coyle and his amazingly flawed "study" that got him reprimanded at his University for conducting shoddy research.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Wrong. Wrong. and Wrong.

Everyone in the cycling community in the U.S. had heard about LA in triathlon and his early cycling feats. Before there was any reason to think of him as a meal ticket, to take sides or anything.
So, the story goes, the word on the street was "there was some beast" down in Texas and did EddyB, Carmichael, Fraysee or whomever or someone want to go have a look.
Lance went out to California, Eddy said he was one of if not the hugest talent he had ever seen, but needed a lot or work, discipline, training whatever.
THe rest of the story is people then trying to co-opt LA to their group, get him out of triathlon, and the rest is history.

SO what if you saw some envious, disgruntled hack on the National Team ranting about Lance and Eddy B promoting him? Don't you think this doesnt happen on every team when some new kid shows up who is suddenly by far the biggest talent and displaces everyone else? Just proves the point. Where is that disgruntled hack now? Where is Lance now?

And don't forget, Lance's record breaking VO2Max at Cooper Aerobics in Dallas was done way before he had gone into cycling. Way before any possible PED enhancement. Before EPO. This was late 80s. He was a teenager. The people who administer the tests are some of the best experts in the world. This was part of the growing pre-legend that made EddyB take a look at him to begin with.
"There's word that there is some beast down in Texas..." funny

And nowhere in your post does anyone suggest that this "beast" was going to be a Tour winner.

When he arrived in Europe there was certainly a lot of attention and expectation on him, he was a strong rider who could finish well.
There was a lot of interest but few predictions on how he would do in his first Tour, however as he quit after the second mountain stage after finishing half an hour down it was evident that he was not a natural climber or Tour contender.

As for his Vo2 max - it is so record breaking in Texas that Lance cannot remember it:

What’s your VO2 Max?
Today? I’ve no idea.

What was it?
I don’t know.

You don’t know?
I did some tests back when I was 16.

You don’t know your VO2 Max?
I haven’t done a test in a long time.

What was it?
The best I can remember, the low 80s.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

And nowhere in your post does anyone suggest that this "beast" was going to be a Tour winner.

When he arrived in Europe there was certainly a lot of attention and expectation on him, he was a strong rider who could finish well.
There was a lot of interest but few predictions on how he would do in his first Tour, however as he quit after the second mountain stage after finishing half an hour down it was evident that he was not a natural climber or Tour contender.

As for his Vo2 max - it is so record breaking in Texas that Lance cannot remember it:

82 which over time inflated to 83 on his web site. A true Pegasus in the making.

 

[Velodude]

Tell me about that "record breaking" VO2Max. Where, when and by whom was it measured?
As far as I know, according to Armstrong's web site, his VO2Max was never higher than 83. I recall that Lemond's was measured at 93. Kindly clarify your assertion with facts to back it up.

It was record breaking for that particular institute (Cooper Aerobics) - a business operated as a health, wellness and fat reduction farm not an elite sports institute!

I suspect that LAF (Livestrong) interns are monitoring this forum and feeding Polish and DaveStoller their responses!

BTW, other TdF winners whose VO2max are superior to LA are Miguel Indurain, allegedly Alberto Contador (by calculation) and Cadel Evans.

 

[Race Radio]

10 guys stronger in a SPRINT.

Like that legendary sprinter Tyler Hamilton?

Eddie B was famous for promoting any rider he was connected to as the "next big thing". Wonderboy was the lucky recipient of that irrational exuberance. Everyone on the team knew he had the potential to a be a good one day race but could not climb or TT.....perhaps due to his less then record breaking Vo2?

 

[Race Radio]

babble

You forgot the part about the unicorns. Every good myth needs unicorns