Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[Fausto's Schnauzer]

Agreed. Quoting articles from the Australian press will lead to tears.

Cadel knows. His time at Mapei served him well. But now. The final flame. I'd say he did it clean.

I remember him in Europe. Tough enough to say no. But he did dabble.

Dabbled eh? He die a bit of that dabbling back in his mountain bike World Cup days too.

 

[GreasyMonkey]

I've got nothing against Evans, but that article didn't reveal a lot. Actually, Martin sounds a lot like Carmichael, touting "tough mentality", "born winner", and "advanced training" as reasons for Evans' success.

Didn't quote it as an authoritive source or for it's "infomercial" value on Martin - simply as another data-point on the topic of high VO2Max values being discussed.

And Hog, my apologies for not quoting the Huffington Post, WSJ or SI..... I don't read any of them. Or pehaps you would consider the recently deceased News of the World as a better source.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

My wife was speaking with a colleague at work on Friday who does the Pan-Mass Challenge every year. The ride benefits the Dana Farber cancer center in Boston. She mentioned to him that she had read in the Globe that Armstrong would be riding the P-M this year. He responded by say that Armstrong has some major reputation rehabilitation to do and that he's heard some participants are not at all happy that he will be there. Some are apparently planning to confront him during the ride.

 

[Benotti69]

My wife was speaking with a colleague at work on Friday who does the Pan-Mass Challenge every year. The ride benefits the Dana Farber cancer center in Boston. She mentioned to him that she had read in the Globe that Armstrong would be riding the P-M this year. He responded by say that Armstrong has some major reputation rehabilitation to do and that he's heard some participants are not at all happy that he will be there. Some are apparently planning to confront him during the ride.

i hope someone records it for youtube.

 

[JRTinMA]

My wife was speaking with a colleague at work on Friday who does the Pan-Mass Challenge every year. The ride benefits the Dana Farber cancer center in Boston. She mentioned to him that she had read in the Globe that Armstrong would be riding the P-M this year. He responded by say that Armstrong has some major reputation rehabilitation to do and that he's heard some participants are not at all happy that he will be there. Some are apparently planning to confront him during the ride.

The Wally's that do the PMC will welcome him with open arms, they are the last stronghold of yellow rubber band wearing tools. They sure have one thing in common, both charities have some outrageous expenses per dollar earned before PMC became a part of the Jimmy Fund and oversight improved. Wonder how he got that huge house in Weston?

On another note, you and people you know have a lot of conversations about LA.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

The Wally's that do the PMC will welcome him with open arms, they are the last stronghold of yellow rubber band wearing tools. They sure have one thing in common, both charities have some outrageous expenses per dollar earned before PMC became a part of the Jimmy Fund and oversight improved. Wonder how he got that huge house in Weston?

A fair number of the folks who do the P-M are professionals who read. They are aware of what the Armstrong fraud is all about.

On another note, you and people you know have a lot of conversations about LA.

Yes, we do. However, it's a small percentage of our overall conversation. Conversations about Lance run about 2% behind our discussions of Goedel's Theorem, but ahead of quantum physics.

 

[JRTinMA]

Yes, we do. However, it's a small percentage of our overall conversation. Conversations about Lance run about 2% behind our discussions of Goedel's Theorem, but ahead of quantum physics.

Mhm, just not smart enough to give their money to a proper charity.

 

[Anonymous]

BPC is selling stuff on ebay. Check out the description: http://cgi.ebay.com/shimano-DURA-AC...parts_SR&hash=item3cba4d63fc&autorefresh=true

 

[Dr. Maserati]

BPC is selling stuff on ebay. Check out the description: http://cgi.ebay.com/shimano-DURA-AC...parts_SR&hash=item3cba4d63fc&autorefresh=true

"It is in this spirit that we at LIVE LIKE LANCE are hoping to tap in to."

They make it too easy.

 

[fatandfast]

I have a Lance technical question. On most machines I have Windows 7 and run Chrome. I have Malwarebytes and Trend micro and purge as often as possible How in the f-ck can all these Lance rides, in Philly and others keep popping up ? I look to see about cookies and I can't see how Lance's people keep getting into my computer and trying to get me to do charity rides

 

[AngusW]

Not compared with other more worthy 22 somethings:

Merckx won his first Giro in 1968 at the age of 22 (also KOM and Points). At 23 his first TdF win.

TdF winners at 23 years of age - Anquetil (1957), Hinault (1978), Fignon (1983), Ullrich (1997)

Lance Edward Armstrong (nee Gunderson) was a ripe old age of near 28 when he found that being a cancer survivor was the secret to success.

Merckx was 24 when he won the Tour in 1969 (turned 24 in June '69).

Fignon was 22 when he won the Tour in 1983 (turned 23 in August '83).

BTW: Felice Gimondi won the Tour at 22 years old.

 

[AngusW]

Fun talk from Lance in Aspen:

“This race will be unlike anything we do. In Europe, you literally race at zero or a thousand or two thousand feet,” Armstrong said. “How these guys respond to 12,000 feet is anybody's guess. … I'm glad I'm going to be watching it on TV.”

http://www.aspentimes.com/article/20110729/NEWS/110729820/1077&ParentProfile=1058

I really hate it when journalists misquote Mr Armstrong. He would know better than most people (with his attention to detail and laser-like focus) that the Col Agnel is 9000ft, not 1000 or 2000 feet. Misquotes like this make him sound either ignorant, stupid or trying to belittle those cyclists who did the Tour de France while he was retired.

Shame on you, Scott Condon!

 

[Velodude]

Merckx was 24 when he won the Tour in 1969 (turned 24 in June '69).

Fignon was 22 when he won the Tour in 1983 (turned 23 in August '83).

BTW: Felice Gimondi won the Tour at 22 years old.

I really hate it when journalists misquote Mr Armstrong. He would know better than most people (with his attention to detail and laser-like focus) that the Col Agnel is 9000ft, not 1000 or 2000 feet. Misquotes like this make him sound either ignorant, stupid or trying to belittle those cyclists who did the Tour de France while he was retired.

Shame on you, Scott Condon!

Mr. AngusW, do you consider your irrelevant nit picking served to discredit the thrust of either of those posts?

It is misleading to quote a passage as being a journalistic error as forming part a reference in the Aspen Times by the forum poster when it was not included in the post.

I notice some of your previous posts on Armstrong are in agreement with Polish and you were an apologist for Flicker. Time to come out of the cupboard? err... I mean closet.

 

[AngusW]

Hi Velodude

Mr. AngusW, do you consider your irrelevant nit picking served to discredit the thrust of either of those posts?

You say irrelevant nitpicking, I say correction for accuracy. If you're going to quote various riders' ages at the time they won their first Tour, at least get it right. And no, it was not intended to discredit the thrust of either of those posts. I added Gimondi because he was 22 years old, which is the same age as Armstrong when he did the time trial in question.

It is misleading to quote a passage as being a journalistic error as forming part a reference in the Aspen Times by the forum poster when it was not included in the post.

As for the quote from the Aspen article, I should have put a tongue in cheek icon. I have no reason to believe that Scott Condon misquoted Armstrong; maybe Armstrong doesn't know the difference between feet and metres or more likely he's trying to make Colorado's mountain roads seem much more impressive than those in France. My apologies for the confusion.

I notice some of your previous posts on Armstrong are in agreement with Polish and you were an apologist for Flicker.

Yes, sometimes I agree with Polish. Sometimes he does post facts. It doesn't mean I share his opinion of Armstrong. As for Flicker, sometimes somebody has to apologise for him - he just can't help himself...

Time to come out of the cupboard? err... I mean closet.

Not sure why you'd want to know this? Could you elaborate?

 

[Cal_Joe]

I notice some of your previous posts on Armstrong are in agreement with Polish and you were an apologist for Flicker. Time to come out of the cupboard? err... I mean closet.

And without those posts this thread would die. Don't forget the the main purpose of this thread is wash, rinse, repeat, so discouraging posts would hasten the death.

Or, paraphrasing the MIA mod Francois, the purpose of this thread is to corral "the same posters repeating the same arguments, over and over and over".

Also, forum guidelines request that you respond to a post, not a poster. So think about your post.

 

[ChrisE]

Lol Angus thinks velodude wants to know about his sexual orientation.

 

[davestoller]

It was record breaking for that particular institute (Cooper Aerobics) - a business operated as a health, wellness and fat reduction farm not an elite sports institute!

I suspect that LAF (Livestrong) interns are monitoring this forum and feeding Polish and DaveStoller their responses!

BTW, other TdF winners whose VO2max are superior to LA are Miguel Indurain, allegedly Alberto Contador (by calculation) and Cadel Evans.

Who invented the word, concept, and idea of "aerobics"?
Ken Cooper

What did Cooper Aerobics look like in the 80s? I know, you dont.

Had Cooper always done physiologic testing with inhaled O2 and exhaled CO2 during treadmill tests? Yes. Of elite athletes? Yes. Are the records posted on their walls? Yes.

Has Cooper served as consultant to the military, SEALS, Rangers, Olympic athletes all over the world? Yes.

The point in mentioning this VO2Max, was to point out that lots of poeple were aware of LA. Eddy B had Lance do certain specific efforts, cloaely observed. He predicted LA would be a hugely succesful rider. He wS correct.

As to aspersions about thw regrettable 84 Olympics, ita the same as what Floyd Landis said to the author who asked about Ferrari and Carmichael. He told the guy- well you met them both. who would you liaten to?

Gotta love Floyd T times.
So yez, met and know Eddy B. So what?!?!

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Who invented the word, concept, and idea of "aerobics"?
Ken Cooper

What did Cooper Aerobics look like in the 80s? I know, you dont.

Had Cooper always done physiologic testing with inhaled O2 and exhaled CO2 during treadmill tests? Yes. Of elite athletes? Yes. Are the records posted on their walls? Yes.

Has Cooper served as consultant to the military, SEALS, Rangers, Olympic athletes all over the world? Yes.

The point in mentioning this VO2Max, was to point out that lots of poeple were aware of LA. Eddy B had Lance do certain specific efforts, cloaely observed. He predicted LA would be a hugely succesful rider. He wS correct.

As to aspersions about thw regrettable 84 Olympics, ita the same as what Floyd Landis said to the author who asked about Ferrari and Carmichael. He told the guy- well you met them both. who would you liaten to?

Gotta love Floyd T times.
So yez, met and know Eddy B. So what?!?!

You got caught with your hand in the cookie jar, Dave. Cooper's comment made no mention of Armstrong's specific, extrapolated VO2Max. Contrary to Dr. Cooper's assertion, Armstrong is really quite average for an elite athlete. His measured VO2Max of 82 is nothing to brag about. Try another truth bender, Dave. We're ready for you and whatever the Fabiani pit crew comes up with.

 

[thehog]

My wife was speaking with a colleague at work on Friday who does the Pan-Mass Challenge every year. The ride benefits the Dana Farber cancer center in Boston. She mentioned to him that she had read in the Globe that Armstrong would be riding the P-M this year. He responded by say that Armstrong has some major reputation rehabilitation to do and that he's heard some participants are not at all happy that he will be there. Some are apparently planning to confront him during the ride.

I much prefer to donate to Stillerstrong.

Btw/ Ben Stiller thought Lance would win the Tour. Ben knows his cycling.

 

[Cal_Joe]

I much prefer to donate to Stillerstrong.

Btw/ Ben Stiller thought Lance would win the Tour. Ben knows his cycling.

Please don't tease us with more of your exclusive insider knowledge. Can you tell us when Mr. Stiller will be -

Indicted

Extradited from France

Fail to show up at the start of a TDF

Be featured in Peephole magazine

Transfer to another team on September..... (hah!)

Inquiring minds want to know.

Last note - exactly what date should we expect another Drumroll !!!! post?

 

[thehog]

Remember when Lance was touting Hincapie as a Tour winner. I think that says it all really. Thankfully we didn't have to watch that alien invasion eventuate.

 

[Velodude]

Who invented the word, concept, and idea of "aerobics"?
Ken Cooper

What did Cooper Aerobics look like in the 80s? I know, you dont.

Read his book. Was for the masses not elite sports

Had Cooper always done physiologic testing with inhaled O2 and exhaled CO2 during treadmill tests? Yes. Of elite athletes? Yes. Are the records posted on their walls? Yes.

Has Cooper served as consultant to the military, SEALS, Rangers, Olympic athletes all over the world? Yes.

Not according to the Cooper Institute website , Dave, where LA was tested as a 16 year old.

In 1987, when he was sixteen-years-old, he was invited to the Cooper Institute in Dallas, Texas. The Cooper Institute was a leader in fitness and aerobic conditioning research. Armstrong was given a VO2 Max test to measure the amount of oxygen his lungs consumed during exercise. His levels were the highest ever recorded at the clinic. (Bold being my emphasis)
http://slumb3r.edublogs.org/2007/02/07/the-story-of-lance-armstrong/

The Cooper Institute on its website makes the following listing of its functions and services and seems to omit your claims about elite/Olympic athlete (testing?) and elite military forces training per se. Slanted towards health improvement of all ages. LA would have no problem with his 82 score of being the highest V02max recorded at that wellness clinic.

• Clinical studies on the management of chronic conditions including obesity, hypertension and diabetes.
• Research on physical activity and its effects on morbidity and mortality as well as chronic disease prevention.
• Collaborative research initiatives with major medical institutions that include preventive medicine research in genetics, nutrition, cardiovascular disease, mental function and healthy brain aging, and cancer.
• Customized training and courses for health and fitness leaders, including law enforcement, military, and firefighters, and a nationally accredited personal trainer certification exam.
• Educational products and a donor-funded outreach web site for all to disseminate healthy living information at http://www.StandUpandEat.org.
• Our Kids’ Health initiative works to reduce childhood obesity and improve the health of youth through legislative efforts, programs and community outreach. FITNESSGRAM® is a physical fitness assessment tool used in 50 states, 12 countries and over 85,000 schools.
• The Institute’s Oak Cliff Center serves the communities south of the Trinity River and assists community and church leaders in their efforts to improve the health and wellness of their populations.

The point in mentioning this VO2Max, was to point out that lots of poeple were aware of LA. Eddy B had Lance do certain specific efforts, cloaely observed. He predicted LA would be a hugely succesful rider. He wS correct.

So was Eddy B the coach of LA in 1987 when Lance had his one and only VO2max test (which he cannot precisely recall)?

As to aspersions about thw regrettable 84 Olympics, ita the same as what Floyd Landis said to the author who asked about Ferrari and Carmichael. He told the guy- well you met them both. who would you liaten to?

Gotta love Floyd T times.
So yez, met and know Eddy B. So what?!?!

The author was Daniel Coyle and the book was Lance Armstrong's War
(ISBN-10: 0060734973) and Coyle was with LA and the USPS team preparing for and during the 2004 TdF. Coyle sought the opinion of many of the riders about the Ferrari/LA relationship. Collectively they debunked the myth originated by LA that Ferrari was only a data collector and Carmichael was the coach.

The contents of that book will haunt LA as it discloses in detail that he was totally in management freaking control and not just an employee of the USPS team. He was the master and the others mere servants.

The book required LA's approval before publication.

 

[Nick777]

Indurain was tested at 88 and Lemond at 93. I've seen references to Evans having tested at 92.

The best result Evans got at the AIS was 87, which was an AIS record at the time. Since then, Brad McGee recorded 89, and Will Walker 94 (http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/features/?id=2003/ais_juniors_get_ready), which is the highest I have ever heard from a cyclist. Will's career was cut short in his early 20's due to a heart defect.
http://www.sbs.com.au/cyclingcentral/news/8982/what-happened-to-william-walker-

All of Evans test results were higher than Armstrong, relative to mass.
Max aerobic output
Evans: 455W / 7.3w/kg (87 VO2)
Armstrong: 510 / 6.8w/kg (81 VO2)
Threshold
Evans: 370W / 6w/kg
Armstrong: 425 / 5.7w/kg

If Cadels threshold wattage looks a little low, his weight back then was around 62kgs, whereas these days it is more like 67. Armstrong was 75kgs when he produced those results.

 

[python]

snip....
All of Evans test results were higher than Armstrong, relative to mass.
Max aerobic output
Evans: 455W / 7.3w/kg (87 VO2)
Armstrong: 510 / 6.8w/kg (81 VO2)
Threshold
Evans: 370W / 6w/kg
Armstrong: 425 / 5.7w/kg

If Cadels threshold wattage looks a little low, his weight back then was around 62kgs, whereas these days it is more like 67. Armstrong was 75kgs when he produced those results.

all interesting data and references, nick.

i'd be however careful with the 'threshold' data for armstrong.

firstly, there are multiple definitions and methods of measuring the 'threashold'...though roughly corelated, a direct comparison between the 2 athletes would require at least (among other factors) the same methodology.

iirc, armstrong's data is from the infamous (and only) ed coyle study where he defined lt as VO2 at which blood lactate increased 1 mM above baseline.

to my recollection he did not publish watts at lt but watts at 5 liters of oxygen

not trying to nitpick, but we'd need to know more about how evans was measured.

 

[DirtyWorks]

What did Cooper Aerobics look like in the 80s? I know, you dont.

Had Cooper always done physiologic testing with inhaled O2 and exhaled CO2 during treadmill tests? Yes. Of elite athletes? Yes. Are the records posted on their walls? Yes.

Has Cooper served as consultant to the military, SEALS, Rangers, Olympic athletes all over the world? Yes.

This is a bunch of posturing and adds no weight to any argument you are trying to support. It's best to quit now and make up another persona to try spinning the narrative, again. The wheels are starting to come off your wagon.

As for the Coyle references, the entire Wonderboy study is awful science. It is just awful work if you have even a rudimentary handle on the scientific process. Why Coyle is used as a legitimate reference still amazes me.