Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[Just Some Dude]

Interesting....

A guy at work here (let's call him "The Other Park Workstand") who's always been a Lance supporter (used to spout "most tested," "French hate that he won their race," blah blah, blah) is now questioning his loyalty. The latest Ferrari bit made the difference. OPW is just one of many I'm sure.

 

[auscyclefan94]

The AP report states that the ongoing investigation found that Armstrong met with Ferrari "over the past several years, usually in St. Moritz, Switzerland, or Monte Carlo, Monaco".

When asked about the information, Ferarri said to AP, "When, last year? Look, right now I don't remember," he said, "but I haven't had a professional relationship with Mr. Armstrong for a long time."

Armstrong's spokesman Mark Fabiani responded, "Lance has not had a professional relationship with Dr. Ferrari since 2004, but he remains friends with the doctor's family and sees them every once in a while. Lance last saw Dr. Ferrari about a year ago

These guys are unbelievable. They choose their words well

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

i think the the physiological dimension (and i'm willing to concur that ferrari played a part) was secondary to the psychological calculation behind the comeback 2.0

in that sense texas was not delusional counting on crushing contador's will and self-confidence. after all, similar arrogant assaults in the past worked like a charm every time...

of course, as we've learned, it was the biggest mistake armstrong ever made - underestimating contador's will and willingness to fight back. he met his match...

to me, the way texas forced himself on the team with the existing structure, formed around the proven leader is and always will remain the ugliest episode in his career.

and i say this fully realizing there wre plenty of other ugly episodes - from chasing simeoni to abusing betsy to what not...

ferrari's reassurances were secondary to the unmeasurable arrogance and vanity of the immense ego this man always put ahead of everything else.

in a nut shell, this is the quintessential reason why i'm one of his most determined detractors.

NEVER have I been an LA fan, for various reasons, but the bolded above rings too true.

That move contavened pretty much every unwritten law in pro cycling. Arrogant, self-important, classless....

 

[D-Queued]

can somebody link the thread listing out all the Gunderson sociopathic traits with evidence apart from those 2 posted above.

Somewhere I did a full breakdown that ranged from lighting the house on fire with kerosene to the donut grease qualifier for the gals he prefers.

But, I cannot find that post right now. This abbreviated version will have to do instead:


Addictive Personality: "Most extreme athletes ply their trade for little money. The lure is the rush … " "I was better at triathlon than any kid in Plano, and any kid in the whole state, for that matter. I liked the feeling.
...I was discovering that if it was a matter of gritting my teeth, not caring how it looked, and outlasting everybody else, I won. ... I could beat anybody"

Record of Criminal Behavior: Ongoing trouble as a youth ... "Let me sum up my trubulent youth. When I was a boy, I invented a game called fireball, which entailed soaking a tennis ball in kerosene, lighting it on fire, and playing catch with it wearing a pair of garden gloves. ... Once, I threw the ball up onto the roof. Some shingles caught fire... Then there was the time a tennis ball landed squarely in the middle of the tray full of gas..."

Lack of Strong Role Models: "I never knew my so called father. He was a non factor
...
There was one thing that my mother gave me that I didn't particularly want -- a stepfather."

Suspicious Backstory: "I probably had too much rope. I was a hyper kid, and I could have done some harm to myself. There were a lot of wide boulevards and fields in Plano, an invitation to trouble for a teenager on a bike or behind the wheel of a car ... I used to ride in traffic for the challenge."

Suspicious Behavior: "I tried to be dependable. I'd climb up on our roof to put up the Christmas lights for her -- and if I mooned the cars on the avenue, well, that was a small, victimless crime

 

[MarkvW]

What?!

haha you're right. 'Delusional' as a side-effect from the PEDs...pumped up and seriously believing that he would win. What an ego...

Yeah, what an ego. How could he ever believe that he could get closer than 5'24" to another Tour de France victory?

 

[MD FACG FACP]

Yeah, what an ego. How could he ever believe that he could get closer than 5'24" to another Tour de France victory?

Yep that was great watching the first place rider dial it back a few notches so he wouldn't blow apart hit teammate. Not sure how many times that's happened in recent history. Good point Mark.

 

[red_flanders]

French Minster for Sports Jouanno says Armstrong used banned substances, should admit it

I like her.

 

[Benotti69]

Really? What about (and I'm paraphrasing here) "I never gave the UCI any money." Then "I gave the UCI some money." and finally "I gave the UCI a $#!+load of money." ?

what about the 99 TdF when he was asked "has he ever taken steroids "and he said "no" and then when asked about testing positive for it, he replied "ohh that,well apart from that"

edit see below

 

[Digger]

what about the 99 TdF when he was asked "has he ever taken steroids "and he said "no" and then when asked about testing positive for it, he replied "ohh that,well apart from that"

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/345599/lance-armstrong-exclusive-interview.html

Q:What is your Vo2?
A: I don't know

Q: what is the highest your Haematocrit has measured?
A: I don't know. (followed by a series of numbers that range from 39 to 48)

Q: Have you ever had a TUE?
A: No, Never
Q: Not even for the Cortisone?
A: Well, obviously there was the Cortisone

 

[sniper]

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/345599/lance-armstrong-exclusive-interview.html

Q:What is your Vo2?
A: I don't know

Q: what is the highest your Haematocrit has measured?
A: I don't know. (followed by a series of numbers that range from 39 to 48)

Q: Have you ever had a TUE?
A: No, Never
Q: Not even for the Cortisone?
A: Well, obviously there was the Cortisone

From that same interview:

Q: Would you open up your health book?
LA: In the year 2001, there were two riders without any notes in their health books – me and Erik Dekker.

 

[hrotha]

Maybe it'd be better to take the talk about Armstrong-sans-Ferrari to the Armstrong thread.

 

[Cobblestoned]

I like her.

Like I said earlier, no surprise that people here love her
I don't.
She could have chosen any other rider who admitted.
But no - she had to choose a dead rider from her country!, a rider that is not even dead for a year!, and she had to bring in cancer!.

Great style - matching the clinic style 100 %. Style run in a perfect manner.
final arguments - Totschlagargumente

 

[wattage]

I was wondering what do ppl think about Armstrongs last year TdF, as for doping wise. I mean he did look decent on the prologue finishing at 4th. And that's what wonders me, he did have some power in those old legs. Was he going in to the Tour with some serious Ferrari medical program, but after the disaster at the cobbles and at Morzine-Avoriaz, did he just ditch whatever plan they had?

 

[Granville57]

...after the disaster at the cobbles and at Morzine-Avoriaz, did he just ditch whatever plan they had?

I'd say so.
http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/07/news/lance-armstrong-this-tour-is-finished-for-me_128132

This Tour is finished for me. -Armstrong

 

[Big Doopie]

Was he going in to the Tour with some serious Ferrari medical program?

most definitely. he had very poor results pre-tour. only a month before the tour he was eighth or so at a time trial at gila for chrissakes. then a few weeks later --at age 39 -- he finishes fourth in the prologue. ridiculous. threatening to make a farce out of pro cycling once again. remember that the tour started outside of france so i'm sure we will find out that armstrong met with ferrari just before the start. his prologue form dissipated over the first week (cobbles), he would have been under much greater (police/afld) scrutiny once in france and the tour (unusually) hit the first mountain weekend without a day off (bloodbag day) -- very important...after that he probably thought doing the usual was too risky.

 

[Cobblestoned]

I was wondering what do ppl think about Armstrongs last year TdF, as for doping wise. I mean he did look decent on the prologue finishing at 4th. And that's what wonders me, he did have some power in those old legs. Was he going in to the Tour with some serious Ferrari medical program, but after the disaster at the cobbles and at Morzine-Avoriaz, did he just ditch whatever plan they had?

Even an old Lance has more power than some young guys, and you need more than just doping to do that. Training for example, and takes some time after such a long break to come back as good a s possible.
Would have wondered if it hadn't been like that.

What you presume was more a combination of both, crash, injured hip + not doing the full package that was planned in case if everything went "fine". I don't really care if it was Ferrari or someone else.

But I am sure the riders up high in classification, did the full refills and package, because it was worth it.

 

[Cobblestoned]

most definitely. he had very poor results pre-tour. only a month before the tour he was eighth or so at a time trial at gila for chrissakes. then a few weeks later --at age 39 -- he finishes fourth in the prologue. ridiculous. threatening to make a farce out of pro cycling once again. remember that the tour started outside of france so i'm sure we will find out that armstrong met with ferrari just before the start. his prologue form dissipated over the first week (cobbles), he would have been under much greater (police/afld) scrutiny once in france and the tour (unusually) hit the first mountain weekend without a day off (bloodbag day) -- very important...after that he probably thought doing the usual was too risky.

some good thoughts, but I disagree with your

"had very poor results pre-tour. only a month before the tour he was eighth or so at a time trial at gila for chrissakes. then a few weeks later --at age 39 -- he finishes fourth in the prologue. ridiculous. threatening to make a farce out of pro cycling once again."

** edited by mod **

What you call "very poor results", was that perhaps a good building-up the form by an old man ?
Did you watch Flandres ?
Did you watch TdL ?
Did you watch TdS ?

Talking about "very poor results pre tour" is ridicoulus and without any respect, and it is farce make such a drama about him finishing 4th at a Prologue. A drama like if he had beaten Cancellara by a minute.

We are talking about da man here, man. And he is old, but still strong.

Go figure !

 

[Polish]

I would guess the meeting between Lance and the good doctor had more to do with the Investigation than anything else. Talk about things that you might not want to discuss over the phone or through emails or twitter lol.

Although I am sure that before Lance left, Dr F injected Lance with the latest Super PED that will not be detectable for another 10 years.

Thats 2 years after the Lance Trial btw....

 

[fatandfast]

I would guess the meeting between Lance and the good doctor had more to do with the Investigation than anything else. Talk about things that you might not want to discuss over the phone or through emails or twitter lol.

Although I am sure that before Lance left, Dr F injected Lance with the latest Super PED that will not be detectable for another 10 years.

Thats 2 years after the Lance Trial btw....

as is written here and everywhere, Lance is in demand, opening buildings in Australia, fund raisers all over the world, wives and girlfriends sprinkled about, a full litter of children and enough frozen sperm to plump any model or actress if he feels like . Why would he meet with Ferari? Strong smell of fish blowing in from Austin and Aspen. The forensic schedule is going to look good, Lance said he couldn't do our 10k or event at the Boy's and Girl's club, who was he with instead

 

[pedaling squares]

I would guess the meeting between Lance and the good doctor had more to do with the Investigation than anything else.

Good one!

Armstrong has never struck me as an idiot, but how dumb would he have to be to respond to this serious allegation by meeting with a highly controversial subject whom he had said was no longer in his life just to discuss the investigation? There is only one reason to meet with Ferrari that would have any benefit for Armstrong, and he seems like a very calculating person who would think of the risk/benefits before making such a move.

 

[Granville57]

Latest AP report

We should be seeing several incarnations of this article as it gets passed around the various news rooms.
With Bonds done, should Armstrong be next?
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hp5RAb8FEFZuuPw3zWekUXJn1fkw?docId=1ade958a84ad40d38b24bf3d43e389f2

Somewhat incriminating, but what is so typical with many of these reports is also seen here. The author seems to admit a degree of ignorance on the subject but then has no problem passing judgement on the validity of the details.

It would appear that going after Bonds was OK, because this reporter has an understanding of the sport and the implication of the transgressions.
Cycling however...?

Like most people who spend time thinking about these things, I have never been able to figure out how Lance Armstrong was able to win seven straight Tour de France races while riding clean at a time when many of his competitors were doping.

So now they're after Armstrong, and who knows what they will find.

Just what charges could be brought against Armstrong are also unclear since doping in a bike race in France is not a prosecutable crime in the United States.

I am, however, a little confused about the Armstrong investigation.

He's not selling blood doping kits on the Internet, and he poses no threat to the youth of America.
If French authorities have a problem with him, fine, they're welcome to go after him. But for federal investigators to spend time and money chasing after Armstrong for things that allegedly happened years ago in France seems like a colossal waste of resources.

It's amusing to see one advertise their ignorance so openly.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Good one!

Armstrong has never struck me as an idiot, but how dumb would he have to be to respond to this serious allegation by meeting with a highly controversial subject whom he had said was no longer in his life just to discuss the investigation? There is only one reason to meet with Ferrari that would have any benefit for Armstrong, and he seems like a very calculating person who would think of the risk/benefits before making such a move.

..nail on head

 

[veganrob]

I was wondering what do ppl think about Armstrongs last year TdF, as for doping wise. I mean he did look decent on the prologue finishing at 4th. And that's what wonders me, he did have some power in those old legs. Was he going in to the Tour with some serious Ferrari medical program, but after the disaster at the cobbles and at Morzine-Avoriaz, did he just ditch whatever plan they had?

Yeah. Remember, he was riding for Little Levi then to prove what a class act and great teammate he was

 

[Race Radio]

Good one!

Armstrong has never struck me as an idiot, but how dumb would he have to be to respond to this serious allegation by meeting with a highly controversial subject whom he had said was no longer in his life just to discuss the investigation? There is only one reason to meet with Ferrari that would have any benefit for Armstrong, and he seems like a very calculating person who would think of the risk/benefits before making such a move.

One thing that Wonderboy consistently did was take huge risks. As more comes out about his actions over the last 20 years people will be shocked at the level of risk he was willing to take in all areas of life

 

[D-Queued]

One thing that Wonderboy consistently did was take huge risks. As more comes out about his actions over the last 20 years people will be shocked at the level of risk he was willing to take in all areas of life

Ok, getting some of this information into the 'right' thread:

3. NEED FOR STIMULATION or PRONENESS TO BOREDOM -- an excessive need for novel, thrilling, and exciting stimulation; taking chances and doing things that are risky. Sociopaths often have low self-discipline in carrying tasks through to completion because they get bored easily. They fail to work at the same job for any length of time, for example, or to finish tasks that they consider dull or routine.

Examples: ...kerosene tennis balls...return of hope...use of PEDs...

Also related to risky behavior is the lack of behavioral control

10. POOR BEHAVIORAL CONTROLS -- expressions of irritability, annoyance, impatience, threats, aggression, and verbal abuse; inadequate control of anger and temper; acting hastily

Examples: ...VandeVelde, Landis, Simeoni, Betsy, Novitzky, Dick Pound, The French...

And, also related are:

11. PROMISCUOUS SEXUAL BEHAVIOR -- a variety of brief, superficial relations, numerous affairs, and an indiscriminate selection of sexual partners; the maintenance of several relationships at the same time; a history of attempts to sexually coerce others into sexual activity or taking great pride at discussing sexual exploits or conquests.

Examples: hello Donut Grease... hello Yellow Rose... hello Haven...

12. EARLY BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS -- a variety of behaviors prior to age 13, including lying, theft, cheating, vandalism, bullying, sexual activity, fire-setting, glue-sniffing, alcohol use, and running away from home.

Examples: Did I mention the kerosene, and lighting the roof on fire?

Bottom-line, why would we be surprised by his risk taking in all areas of his life? Hasn't he exhibited and even boasted about a long history of impulsive behavior that frequently strayed beyond ethical norms?

Dave.