Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[JMBeaushrimp]

You're absolutely right. He has wasted taxpayer money over and over. Not to mention the waste of money for advertising materials for his charity. lol.

If he would just stop wasting everyone's time and admit that he is the biggest fraud in the history of sport, man, we could just stop this whole investigation (well not really, it involves more than just the One Balled Fraud), but still. He could plea out and look like a man instead of half a man. His kids would be able to be proud of their dad when they grow up instead of the inevitable therapy sessions they will need. lol

Dang. lol[/QUOTE]

Dude! Your legal posts are intelligent and I actually look forward to your imput on American legal matters, but you might want to step away from the line.

You are seriously on the verge of going Full *** on this one.

There's nothing I appreciate more than a good vendetta, or a well-picked fight, but your comments are getting dumber by the second.

 

[GreasyMonkey]

You gotta admit, that is completely true. Clearly reasonable people can agree on that, no?

Reasonable people, yes..... But Polish, Flicker, et al .......uhmmm??

 

[D-Queued]

Dude! Your legal posts are intelligent and I actually look forward to your imput on American legal matters, but you might want to step away from the line.

You are seriously on the verge of going Full *** on this one.

There's nothing I appreciate more than a good vendetta, or a well-picked fight, but your comments are getting dumber by the second.[/QUOTE]

I think they may have tweaked a nerve when they went after him personally. While that may constitute harrassment, he may not want to hone his legal skills pursuing that option.

Dave.

 

[Oldman]

The current AP story is tightening the Media impression of what LA and Co. will be legally exposed to. It sounds like the scope is intended to make an impression on similar frauds, illegal networks and front charities at once. This would be very ambitious and sounds like it won't be just a single legal action; rather several agencies coordinating the dominoes they trip over to make subsequent cases less difficult. If it works; great but the AP story appears to be fed from the Feds perspective. I'm sure Fabiani has a glossy explanation prepared and we'll hear it soon?

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycl...ong-federal-investigation_N.htm#uslPageReturn

The first thing that grabbed my attention on Race Radio's link was this bit from the article:

Undeterred by the slap on the wrist a jury gave Barry Bonds, U.S. investigators are forging ahead in a separate drug-related case against another superstar athlete — Lance Armstrong.

...which goes hand in hand with the following CN article that was just posted:
Armstrong investigation progressing, but case is 'solid'

A couple interesting things in the CN article:
1.

"This case isn't like Bonds and Clemens," a source familiar with the case said to AP – the latter facing trial for perjury following the alleged use of performance enhancing drugs. "Those were about lying. This is about corruption to the core."

2. So much time has passed I had begun thinking LA had slipped out of the noose. The article seems to indicate a few other reasons (besides involving the European agencies) why things are taking so long, such as the enormity of the case (with FBI and IRS doing there own investigations independent of Novitsky's), and the need for secrecy to prevent leaks that could otherwise compromise the investigations. Secrecy sounds like a simple thing, but it takes time to be thorough and controlled to eliminate the loopholes... as opposed to, let's say, hip-shooting.

 

[D-Queued]

The current AP story is tightening the Media impression of what LA and Co. will be legally exposed to. It sounds like the scope is intended to make an impression on similar frauds, illegal networks and front charities at once. This would be very ambitious and sounds like it won't be just a single legal action; rather several agencies coordinating the dominoes they trip over to make subsequent cases less difficult. If it works; great but the AP story appears to be fed from the Feds perspective. I'm sure Fabiani has a glossy explanation prepared and we'll hear it soon?

Something along the lines of "Lance never tested positive". Or was it, "most tested athlete."

Sure, it has been tried before. These "old, tired lies" were even promoted by Fabiani.

But, hope rides again.

Dave.

 

[flicker]

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2011-05-09-scooter-bike-sales-boom_n.htm

29% sale increase in road bikes. Directly attributable to Lance, Greg, mountain biking, and the racers in the usa from the 70s onward.

I call it Lance Armstrong's trickle down effect, bike sales, fitness, and green living.

 

[thehog]

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2011-05-09-scooter-bike-sales-boom_n.htm

29% sale increase in road bikes. Directly attributable to Lance, Greg, mountain biking, and the racers in the usa from the 70s onward.

I call it Lance Armstrong's trickle down effect, bike sales, fitness, and green living.

Does the link include the 29% increase in sales of HemAssist by Lance when he sold it to other athletes?

 

[ChrisE]

Something along the lines of "Lance never tested positive". Or was it, "most tested athlete."

Sure, it has been tried before. These "old, tired lies" were even promoted by Fabiani.

But, hope rides again.

Dave.

Dave I'm not sure I discount the power in that statement with a jury of simpletons.

If a jury cannot convict melonhead Bonds on something simple and blatantly obvious, how can they muddle through a complex case involving famous athletes that have "never tested positive"? That is at the core and it will resonate...if LA did all of these things why didn't he test positive? The "the tests were flawed" argument may not have alot of traction. "If the glove doesn't fit, you must aquit" seems stupid but it works on the galactically stupid and naive. You, RR, etc. will not be sitting on that jury.

We've seen special treatment given to stars by juries before, but the totally stupid irrational decisions produced by the Bonds jury should not be dismissed.

 

[Hugh Januss]

That troll has been suspended multiple times. Like who you like but history speaks for itself.

Well, the turds circling the bowl have really distilled down to just three now.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Dave I'm not sure I discount the power in that statement with a jury of simpletons.

If a jury cannot convict melonhead Bonds on something simple and blatantly obvious, how can they muddle through a complex case involving famous athletes that have "never tested positive"? That is at the core and it will resonate...if LA did all of these things why didn't he test positive? The "the tests were flawed" argument may not have alot of traction. "If the glove doesn't fit, you must aquit" seems stupid but it works on the galactically stupid and naive. You, RR, etc. will not be sitting on that jury.

We've seen special treatment given to stars by juries before, but the totally stupid irrational decisions produced by the Bonds jury should not be dismissed.

Certainly something to cling to, if you really must continue to believe in the magic.

 

[ChrisE]

Certainly something to cling to, if you really must continue to believe in the magic.

I'm not a religious person and don't cling to anything for my sanctity. My post is laced with facts (irrational Bonds and OJ decisions) and a rational argument on the mindset of the average idiot that sits on juries, vs a punchline people use in here all the time (never tested positive). I interface with people every day who should be totally rational, yet they come to the most stupid and irrational conclusions about things that are black and white.

I think he is no more innocent than you do, but let's not let that little fact muddle the internet jousting of supposed in-denial fanboys vs the reality based community. If he skates on all of this I will enjoy watching the group aneurysm of the hate crowd. I would donate to his defense to see that. The fun part will be digging up old posts to jam in the face of the ever-so-confident in the jury system of the US, which is misplaced IMO. YMMV.

 

[python]

I think Python said it quite well.

you can clearly see , mew, that 'the -firmly sitting on the fence' lie is hurting some fanboys

Well, the turds circling the bowl have really distilled down to just three now.

+1
LMAO

 

[la.margna]

LIEstrong camp will try to destroy the case by trying to bribe people to leak inside information to the media or sabotage with formal/legal stuff etc. their last way out.

 

[Dallas_]

Hot grills

The hog hits Cali next week. Brave?

You thinking, maybe the black suits will shirt front Hog just like they did with Popo! Maybe put him under the grill?

Just a hunch, but I do not think so. Novi does not want the european agencies to leak too much case info and Hog is too close to target1.

My theory is, after the fireworks, Novi will provide a dosier of evidence to Interpol and let them coordinate legal action in Europe.
.

 

[JRTinMA]

I'm not a religious person and don't cling to anything for my sanctity. My post is laced with facts (irrational Bonds and OJ decisions) and a rational argument on the mindset of the average idiot that sits on juries, vs a punchline people use in here all the time (never tested positive). I interface with people every day who should be totally rational, yet they come to the most stupid and irrational conclusions about things that are black and white.

I think he is no more innocent than you do, but let's not let that little fact muddle the internet jousting of supposed in-denial fanboys vs the reality based community. If he skates on all of this I will enjoy watching the group aneurysm of the hate crowd. I would donate to his defense to see that. The fun part will be digging up old posts to jam in the face of the ever-so-confident in the jury system of the US, which is misplaced IMO. YMMV.

This is what I "cling" to, just a simple desire to see the group aneurysm. The problem is a guilty guy has to walk free for this to happen and I'm torn between whats right and my own entertainment value. Oh how I dread the tough decisions.

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

This is what I "cling" to, just a simple desire to see the group aneurysm.'...'

Is that because you routinely take pleasure in knowing other people are upset, or because you believe this particular group of people deserves to be upset?

 

[ChrisE]

[/B]

This is what I "cling" to, just a simple desire to see the group aneurysm. The problem is a guilty guy has to walk free for this to happen and I'm torn between whats right and my own entertainment value. Oh how I dread the tough decisions.

I can sympathize with that and I cannot defend my feelings on those terms. I guess since nobody is really a direct "victim" here in his alleged crimes it desensitizes that emotion. It's not like he is being accused of murder, for example, which obviously would evoke a different take from me and you assume you.

No, my pleasure in him walking is not bound by moral parameters. I try to rationalize it away by saying him walking would be a necessary side effect for fun Clinic sport, kinda like catching vd from Megan Fox.

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

I can sympathize with that and I cannot defend my feelings on those terms. I guess since nobody is really a direct "victim" here in his alleged crimes it desensitizes that emotion. It's not like he is being accused of murder, for example, which obviously would evoke a different take from me and you assume you.

No, my pleasure in him walking is not bound by moral parameters. I try to rationalize it away by saying him walking would be a necessary side effect for fun Clinic sport, kinda like catching vd from Megan Fox.

Until we know the exact charges we can't say who the "victims" might be, and in what way their interests have been damaged. Tax evasion etc are not actually victimless crimes, especially during an era of spending cutbacks.

And if you think giving money to the Balkan mafia for knockoff drugs doesn't harm anyone in any way you're pretty naive about organised crime.

 

[Anonymous]

I have to say, I appreciate the honesty displayed by JRT and ChrisE. I don't respect your positions, but I appreciate that you have both showed the reason behind your posts. The end of the trial (if there is one) will be a long day for a lot of people. If he is convicted of something, there will be much rejoicing in Mudville followed in a few days by an absence of things to talk about. If The Uniballer wins (or the Grand Jury does not indict) you gloating and shoving of things in the face will be a great day for the two of you (and many others). That will make you happy for a couple of days, and then it will begin to fade.

To you, this is a p!ssing contest or a fratboy game to see who has to stand on the table at the end and sing the "I'm a loser" song. For all of my vitriol and denouncement of people who support Fraud Ball, all I truly want to see is a man who is punished for his crimes. ChrisE, you say that there was nobody hurt by Armstrong, and therefore you can suspend any sense of justice you may have in favor of your desire to spike the ball in the end zone. I disagree. There have been people hurt, and that has always motivated my desire to see him punished.

In the end, most of us never get what we deserve, and in my case, that is a very good thing. Ole Tex probably will not be punished for his crimes to the extent he deserves. Heck, he may, as you both say, skate free. He obviously believes he has a guardian angel somewhere based on his attitude about all of this. He is in a position to know if he has an ace in the hole somewhere, and if this case has to be run all the way to the top of the flagpole, there could very well be a person somewhere just waiting to kill it. Who knows? Either way, on that fateful day, I am guessing that if the verdict is against Tex, we will not hear from you much. if he prevails, have fun with your shoving it in the face celebration. It will be a great day, and I suggest you both buy pinatas for the occasion. Nothing like having a physical manifestation of your electronic party. Fun will be had by all.

I will go back to watching races, and commenting on cycling as my desire to see Tex pay isn't the only thing I write about here, not that I enjoy about the sport. Good luck guys!

EDIT: I might also add that most of the people here still defending Tex or antagonizing people who want to see him brought to justice probably have the same motivation as do you, so I really do appreciate the honesty.

 

[Anonymous]

Until we know the exact charges we can't say who the "victims" might be, and in what way their interests have been damaged. Tax evasion etc are not actually victimless crimes, especially during an era of spending cutbacks.

And if you think giving money to the Balkan mafia for knockoff drugs doesn't harm anyone in any way you're pretty naive about organised crime.

But this isn't really about this for him. This is about winning a contest that is vitally important to his vision of who he is. He has a personal stake in this, so any real victims are just collateral damage in his quest to make sure he gets to say "I told you so."

 

[MD FACG FACP]

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2011-05-09-scooter-bike-sales-boom_n.htm

29% sale increase in road bikes. Directly attributable to Lance, Greg, mountain biking, and the racers in the usa from the 70s onward.

I call it Lance Armstrong's trickle down effect, bike sales, fitness, and green living.

And you would be wrong. You might be stateing the reason you bought your garage decoration. The article attributes it to higher fuel costs.

 

[JRTinMA]

Is that because you routinely take pleasure in knowing other people are upset, or because you believe this particular group of people deserves to be upset?

Its really not that simple, my target since you ask is the clinic specifically. Not everybody in the clinic but most of them. Some posters have been incredibly consistent, TFF comes to mind and then there are the ones I will revel in their agony if he walks. Its the hypocrites I would pay to have a webcam on the moment the decision is announced.

The ones who call LA a bully and then display the exact same behavior in the clinic. The ones who hero worship FL for coming clean but ignore him when he states LA was a great competitor. The ones who bemoan the lies and PR of the Armstrong camp but use misinformation in the campaign all the time. The hypocrisy goes on and on. Quite honestly I have never understood the personal agenda of some of the posters, this simply does not happen in other sports. There are no web sites decrying the antics of Clemens, A-Rod, Ramirez or Bonds in the same manner. In fact, if Clemens could still put one over the plate high and tight at 97mph he would be welcomed back to boston like a hero. Yes LA doped but to say he won seven tours on doping alone is idiotic. So I find it interesting so much hate is aimed at one fraud, the sporting world is full of them. Its largely ignored and still encouraged in some sports. When I come on here I often wonder what the motive is and thats what makes the experience interesting for me. He was a fraud, I agree, but the whole sport was a fraud from the day the first oxygen vector drug was injected right up to today. I love racing my bike and I love the grass roots part of cycling but I understand the pros are a side show at best.

You asked!

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Dave I'm not sure I discount the power in that statement with a jury of simpletons.

If a jury cannot convict melonhead Bonds on something simple and blatantly obvious, how can they muddle through a complex case involving famous athletes that have "never tested positive"? That is at the core and it will resonate...if LA did all of these things why didn't he test positive? The "the tests were flawed" argument may not have alot of traction. "If the glove doesn't fit, you must aquit" seems stupid but it works on the galactically stupid and naive. You, RR, etc. will not be sitting on that jury.

We've seen special treatment given to stars by juries before, but the totally stupid irrational decisions produced by the Bonds jury should not be dismissed.

Bonds may have got off the charges (which were for perjury) but his legacy is in tatters as even yourself alluded too.

A first year in law school student like TFF could make the 'never tested positive' line irrelevant in their opening argument - no test for EPO for half LA's career, and still no test for autologous blood transfusions, hard to fail tests that don't exist.

Yet the biggest part you are forgetting is that LA will not be on trial for PED use - it will probably center on funding and distribution of drugs that were for other uses, he will be caught up on this as an officer of Tailwind.

I'm not a religious person and don't cling to anything for my sanctity. My post is laced with facts (irrational Bonds and OJ decisions) and a rational argument on the mindset of the average idiot that sits on juries, vs a punchline people use in here all the time (never tested positive). I interface with people every day who should be totally rational, yet they come to the most stupid and irrational conclusions about things that are black and white.

I think he is no more innocent than you do, but let's not let that little fact muddle the internet jousting of supposed in-denial fanboys vs the reality based community. If he skates on all of this I will enjoy watching the group aneurysm of the hate crowd. I would donate to his defense to see that. The fun part will be digging up old posts to jam in the face of the ever-so-confident in the jury system of the US, which is misplaced IMO. YMMV.

Good luck finding those posts - hard to be convicted of a crime that does not exist as most here acknowledge that any charges will have nothing to do with PEDs.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Its really not that simple, my target since you ask is the clinic specifically. Not everybody in the clinic but most of them. Some posters have been incredibly consistent, TFF comes to mind and then there are the ones I will revel in their agony if he walks. Its the hypocrites I would pay to have a webcam on the moment the decision is announced.

The ones who call LA a bully and then display the exact same behavior in the clinic. The ones who hero worship FL for coming clean but ignore him when he states LA was a great competitor. The ones who bemoan the lies and PR of the Armstrong camp but use misinformation in the campaign all the time. The hypocrisy goes on and on. Quite honestly I have never understood the personal agenda of some of the posters, this simply does not happen in other sports. There are no web sites decrying the antics of Clemens, A-Rod, Ramirez or Bonds in the same manner. In fact, if Clemens could still put one over the plate high and tight at 97mph he would be welcomed back to boston like a hero. Yes LA doped but to say he won seven tours on doping alone is idiotic. So I find it interesting so much hate is aimed at one fraud, the sporting world is full of them. Its largely ignored and still encouraged in some sports. When I come on here I often wonder what the motive is and thats what makes the experience interesting for me. He was a fraud, I agree, but the whole sport was a fraud from the day the first oxygen vector drug was injected right up to today. I love racing my bike and I love the grass roots part of cycling but I understand the pros are a side show at best.

You asked!

Since you are in the mood for answering questions - can you actually state who these people are? You are making a lot of very broad claims, if they are true why not name these posters.

"The ones who call LA a bully and then display the exact same behavior in the clinic." - Who?
"The ones who hero worship FL for coming clean but ignore him when he states LA was a great competitor." - Who?
"The ones who bemoan the lies and PR of the Armstrong camp but use misinformation in the campaign all the time." - Who and some examples?
"Yes LA doped but to say he won seven tours on doping alone is idiotic." - Who said that?
"When I come on here I often wonder what the motive is and thats what makes the experience interesting for me." - Have you ever simply asked these unnamed posters what their motivation is?