Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[D-Queued]

Stop it with the politics talk

Isn't this where ("another interesting piece I found on Lance Armstrong") we get to connect the dots between Fabiani - of known Democtratic allegiances - and Lance's 2014 Gubernatorial campaign?

From 2008:
What about the rumors,” I asked him, “that you’ll run for governor?”

He answered slyly, “Down the road, something like that might be possible. Probably in 2014.”

Just another tricky bit with Lance is how all these things ACTUALLY ARE intertwined - Lance's charity, doping, and US politics.

The whole thing is crazy.

Dave.

 

[Barrus]

Gladly back on topic...




I wanted to ask: What did you mean here? He won't be able to do...what?

He won't be able to plead the 5th if he takes a deal.

@ Dave, anything pertaining Armstrong is allowable, stuff about Clinton and such is not

 

[D-Queued]

He won't be able to plead the 5th if he takes a deal.

@ Dave, anything pertaining Armstrong is allowable, stuff about Clinton and such is not

Thanks Barrus.

Dave.

 

[JA.Tri]

Parachute deployed

Lance has pulled the chute at 200ft and he contemplating how hard he will hit and what damage.

Most revealing to me was Bill S indicating that his conversation with LA was: tough but cordial. This was apparently after LA has previewed the BS (pun intended) article.

Revealing... or me reading a lot into it???

So LA "never doped"
LA flayed all and sundry that dare raise the spectre of LA doping

Yet LA has a tough but cordial conversation with one of the "inner circle" (on the outermost ring thereof!!). Who has just, so kindly, revealed his "friend", LA, as a doper. Sorry "Danger! Danger! Will Robinson"...there is no way that that set of circumstances is consistent with the history of LA as I know it.

So...I infer LA is coming to terms with some sort of admission. Whether BS was part of the planning/strategy or inadvertent, lucky happenstance...who canna know.

As to the quality of that admission? I submit that I would not be surprised if it was of the quality of M Jones, both long and short term.

 

[Race Radio]

You gotta wonder how much of their "Program Expenses" Are spent on producing the spin?

Perhaps the most entertaining part of this is how they are now claiming they have answered my questions. They have not answered anything, instead started a smear campaign designed to deflect from my questions.


So there is no confusion this is what I wrote


Thank you for offering to answer some of my questions.

Financial

Has the Foundation, or its related entities, loaned, co-signed, or otherwise guaranteeing a purchase or investment of a board member, principal, officer or related entity/person?

Livestrong has a number of financial/investment professional on its board. Has the foundation ever invested foundation funds with a principal, board member, officer, or related entity? If yes what was the performance of those investments?

What is the financial performance of the Foundation's general fund over the last 3 years?

Travel expenses
The 2009 travel expenses for Livestrong total almost $2 million ($1,922,995). This is very high for a charity the size of Livestrong. For comparison, the National Cancer Coalition, with 5 times as much money raised, only claimed $108,559 in travel expenses. Livestrong does many events so I looked at the travel costs of a cancer charity that also does many events, Susan G Koman. They had travel costs that were about 2 times that of Livestrong ($4,260,354) but their revenue was 10 times as much ($298,685,007)

Does the foundation, or related entities, ever pay for private plane travel for any of its officers, principals, or board members?

Does the foundation, or related entities, ever pay for any private plane related costs, i.e. fuel, landing costs, hanger fees, maintenance, pilot salaries, charter etc?

Does the Foundation have a written travel policy covering the types and pricing of accommodations and transportation used while traveling? Are there ever exceptions to these policies?

Livestrong U23 cycling team

What is the financial relationship between the foundation and the Livestrong U23 cycling team?

Does the team receive a financial contribution from the Foundation?

If yes how large is the contribution and where does this expense fall on the balance sheet? Would it be advertising or a program cost?

Advertising
For 2009 Livestorng spent $4,000,000 on advertising. I would expect that advertising is an important vehicle for a foundation like Livestrong whose mission is awareness. I would expect that the goal would be to drive people to Livestrong’s primary education source, it’s website.

According to Alexa traffic to the For Profit .com is exploding, while the foundations traffic is flat.

Livestrong spent $6,500,000 on advertising in the past 2 years. What is the primary goal of this advertising?

What are the measureables of Livestrong’s advertising spend?

What have been the top 10 advertising campaigns, based on financial investment, for Livestrong over the past 3 years?

What is the currently spend with related companies? For example http://www.bazaarvoice.com/ a company funded by Livestrong board members. What is Livestrong's, or related entities, annual spend with Bazaar Voice?

Corporate structure

Livestrong has what could be seen as a confusing corporate structure. Why is the foundation split into separate arms, such as for merchandise and for events? Most experts say there is no need to do this. Some Universities are non-profits and they can sell t-shirts and host events. The most obvious reason is this structure designed to consolidate the revenue in one arm and split the expenses among several, giving a better rating on charity ranking sites . Given that two of the separate arms (LAF merchandise and LAF events) essentially give all their money to the main arm (LAF) would the performance of the charity be more accurately reflected if there was only one entity?

Promotion of cancer causing products

Alcohol
Alcohol consumption has been linked with multiple types of cancer: mouth cancer, pharyngeal cancer, oesophageal cancer, laryngeal cancer, breast cancer, bowel cancer and liver cancer. A global study found that 3.6% of all cancer cases worldwide are caused by drinking alcohol, resulting in 3.5% of all global cancer deaths. For both men and women, the consumption of two or more drinks daily increases the risk of pancreatic cancer by 22%.Even Moderate drinker are at risk, they were 67% more likely to get stomach cancer.

Given Livestrong stated goal is to raise awareness of the disease is there concern within the foundation that it's chief spokesperson is also the paid spokesperson for a product show to increase cancer risk?

HGH
Recently there has been much in the press about the significant cancer risks of HGH. It is surprising that much of the advertising on livestrong.com is for"Doctors" who push HGH "Cures".

Is the foundation concerned about the conflict of promoting products that could significantly increase the likelihood of Cancer while trying to raise awareness of it?

Thank you for your time. Iet me know if you have any questions and I look forward to your input.

 

[Merckx index]

According to Alexa traffic to the For Profit .com is exploding, while the foundations traffic is flat.

I noticed livestrong.com had a slight blip upwards in the middlle of 09 and 10, which I assume correlates with LA's TDF rides. But there was a big spike in the beginning of this year. Any idea what caused that?

 

[Oldman]

RR-no one's answering questions as they're too busy with the fog machine. The Foundation questions are going to be some compelling items (as we've discussed) and may be one of the biggest problems Lance and his buddies have. Not doping, lying, cheating, displaying excessive hubris and lack of respect for the sport that made him rich. No-tax fraud is not sexy but that is hard to avoid.

 

[skippythepinhead]

If Mr. Gunderson taught me anything...

If Mr. Gunderson has taught me anything, it is the dubious utility of here worship.

Race Radio, you can't be my hero, because there's no value in having heroes or in being someone's hero. However all the things you want to know are things I want to know, and we have a right to full and complete disclosure after all of the lies.

Although my view of the Livestrong mess is similar to yours, I take it a bit further. The non-profit sector constitutes a kind of genteel mafia that basically commoditizes the human condition. Aging? Join the AARP and get "great deals" on insurance while we pile up cash. Cancer? Stupidity? Car breaks down? We can merchandise all of it. Non-profit my tuches.

Too bad nobody with oversight capacity or power to change the way the system works really gives a rat's behind.

 

[Benotti69]

You gotta wonder how much of their "Program Expenses" Are spent on producing the spin?


Financial

<snip>

Travel expenses

<snip>

Livestrong U23 cycling team

<snip>

Advertising

<snip>

<snip>

Corporate structure

<snip>

Promotion of cancer causing products

Alcohol

<snip>

HGH

<snip>

Thank you for your time. Let me know if you have any questions and I look forward to your input.

Great post RR.

If LiveWrong were a real charity the answer to these questions would be readily available on their website with explanations as to the what, where, why and how they spend people's donations. But we all know different.

 

[Race Radio]

Looks like you'll be checking again. So little time, so many eejits.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110401/sp_afp/cyclingamfootusafralivestrong

Great news!

More money for Jet Fuel, advertising the .com and trips to the Yellow Rose.

 

[Ferminal]

Looks like you'll be checking again. So little time, so many eejits.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110401/sp_afp/cyclingamfootusafralivestrong

Nice coup for Demand.

 

[Stingray34]

If RR is the lone interrogator here, it's easy for Livestrong to marginalise him.

Why don't we all take RR's questions, rewrite them in our own style and post them online and via the post to LiveStrong's headquarters?

Got an address for us, RR?

 

[MacRoadie]

Looks like you'll be checking again. So little time, so many eejits.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110401/sp_afp/cyclingamfootusafralivestrong

Talk about horribly lazy journalism...

That is a month-old story about the naming rights to a soccer stadium (not "American" football which would be the Kansas City Chiefs and Arrowhead Stadium which isn't changing names any time soon since it derives it's name from the Chiefs' logo, an arrowhead) and it was discussed back when it was actually current "news". I don't know what "merchandising company Sponsoring.fr said Friday", but the news conference regarding the naming rights occurred back on March 8th.

Sporting Kansas City names soccer stadium Livestrong Sporting Park

 

[Cloxxki]

Something I need to say that's been bothering me.

I can't bear the ring of the words "7-time winner" any more.

Can we please ask press around to word to, since we already had another American be stripped of his title after a long-winded doping controvercy, to "7-time first finisher" or "7-time tentative winner"?
"As of today still formally recognized as 7-time winner". Just something mainstream-media-proof, but a bit more correct than the verb winning.

 

[Race Radio]

Harassing people who dare to question the myth has been a Wonderboy tactic for well over a decade.

Bill Mitchell, the founder of Cyclingnews was a victim of particually agressive attack by Armstrong and his groupies back in 1999.

After he ran this story about Armstrong testing positive for Corticoids after Stage 1The harassment began. Sponsors were urged to stop advertising. His employer was called by dozens of groupies. Typical bully stuff.

A few days later he wrote this

In recent days, a number of American readers have written abusive emails to me because I have tried to present the diversity of views about the allegations of doping by Tour leader Lance Armstrong. I have not given my own view on the European press approach. But I do think it is part of a free society to allow all views to be expressed. Then we can (as adults) make up our own minds on the balance of information. That is what freedom is all about. For those who want to censor views because they don't agree with them think about that.

This only increased the harassment. Eventually he had to sell Cyclingnews, his life's passion. He sold it for almost nothing to Gerrard Knapp, who later sold it for $5,000,000 to Future Publishing. In his parting message, which Cyclingnews yanked off the site after yet more complaints from the Groupies, he wrote this.

I also received a lot of antagonism for daring to have an opinion - mostly from US readers. I could not understand why people (only a small minority), who grew up in the so-called land of freedom were so intent on repressing free speech. After all it was your choice to click the link and there was no charge for doing so. But still I received many threatening and nasty E-mails on a regular basis. My employer (the University) was harassed. And lately these nasty types have been trying to encourage my sponsors to stop supporting the site. I guess these types wear white hoods around the place at times too. It made me understand how McCarthyism thrived in the USA. Lucky I live in a free society I thought.

 

[Anonymous]

If you want some real comedy gold check out this guy. He is like a parody of the angry old man. Reminds me of that CarbonCrank guy
http://twitter.com/#!/JamieLindsay

You'd better watch out, that douchebag says you are getting sued.. People like that need to get vasectomies. Our species needs to cut fu*king stupid out of the gene pool.

 

[Race Radio]

You'd better watch out, that douchebag says you are getting sued.. People like that need to get vasectomies. Our species needs to cut fu*king stupid out of the gene pool.

Yeah, I am trembling.

I ask legit questions and their response is to organize their followers to smear me on the internet. Not hard to figure out who has the better case.

 

[mewmewmew13]

What is Bill Mitchell doing these days? That's a pretty sad state of affairs...one can only hope that karma prevails.

 

[Oldman]

All of the harassment over the years is why I feel no pity for whatever Armstrong winds up going through.

He and his zombie groupies deserve to go down in flames.

It's all part of the American ethos-not only to become a celebrity through sport, but to be a self-centered, arrogant sore winner while doing it. It's respected in corporate America, and the fans love it.

They got the hero they deserve.

You don't know sh*t about Americans. Athletes are athletes and don't respect self-agrandizing posers; only rabid group-think fans buy into that for any length of time. Those fans are everywhere...at every rock concert and soccer riot. It is hard to swallow the American selling of the "freedom" concept and that's generally shilled by the same sort of person that wraps themselves in a flag or holds up a holy book to galvanize their support. Again, not soley an American concept but the marketing machine in the US works better so you hear about it.
The same actual US mentality that admired the well-crafted image of Armstrong will also consider his fall from grace once they quit twittering and tune into news beyond their myopic gaze. Those that were always paying attention will be less amazed and disappointed.

 

[Berzin]

You don't know sh*t about Americans. Athletes are athletes and don't respect self-aggrandizing posers; only rabid group-think fans buy into that for any length of time.

Lebron James.

Chad "Ocho-Cinco" Johnson.

Brett Favre.

Alex "A-Rod" Rodriguez.

All self-aggrandizing posers. And that's just a list off the top of my head. You want a list of coaches who think they're more important than the games they coach? Geno Auriemma and Pat Summit in women's college basketball, any football coach college or pro, etc.

American athletes know that the real money is in how they market themselves. So many call attention to themselves and wind up morphing into the colossal egomaniacs that are unique to the world of sports in any other country.

Armstrong is the posterboy of this phenomena; the apotheosis, if you will.

The uniqueness of America brings about a uniqueness in the type of human beings professional athletes become.

I know plenty about Americans, brother. I've only lived here all of my life.

 

[thehog]

Something I need to say that's been bothering me.

I can't bear the ring of the words "7-time winner" any more.

Can we please ask press around to word to, since we already had another American be stripped of his title after a long-winded doping controvercy, to "7-time first finisher" or "7-time tentative winner"?
"As of today still formally recognized as 7-time winner". Just something mainstream-media-proof, but a bit more correct than the verb winning.

Just like Floyd became "disgraced cyclist" you'd think Armstrong should morph into "compulsive lair".

None the less as I sip my coffee before getting out on route to watch Flanders... I ponder the following... If Armstrong looked good old Bill in the eye and told him he "never doped" I hate to think the number of cancer suffers, celebrities, politicians he has done same with. The later two doesn't matter a whole lot but the first is down right shameful - sickening in fact.

 

[Francois the Postman]

This thread is about news dealing with Armstrong first and foremost, but the whole Twitter campaign strand started to take on a life of its own. I have split if off and redirected most of the posts that dealt with that area into it.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=12978

 

[Granville57]

I know plenty about Americans, brother. I've only lived here all of my life.

...and you're one of the more articulate members of the forum (plus, from all your previous posts, I had always assumed that you were American. )

But I have to ask about this:

All self-aggrandizing posers. And that's just a list off the top of my head. You want a list of coaches who think they're more important than the games they coach? Geno Auriemma and Pat Summit in women's college basketbal

It's not the first time I've seen Geno take a bashing on this forum but let me add my perspective.
Around these parts, Geno is held in nothing but high regard.
Brash? Sure. But it's his take-no-prisoners type of confidence that inspires a lot of people. I can tell you first-hand that he does plenty for the community, and the exploits and victories of his teams have done an enormous amount of good in terms of empowering many, many girls and women throughout the region. His swagger is viewed only in a positive light by most everyone in his home state.

I've been to several home games (you think cycling fans are hardcore? ) and what that team does, under Geno's leadership, for women's self-esteem is remarkable and nothing but positive. I dated a girl for several years whose family was involved with the school program and it was quite impressive to witness up close. Young and old alike are truly inspired by the team's example.

But do not, DO NOT, ever question a referee's call in favor of the team, interrupt anyone in the room during a broadcast, or expect any sort of rational reaction in the very rare event of a loss.
I digress...

I'm just curious what your perspective is on a coach that is so well respected and inspiring to those who rub shoulders with him. But trust me, it's nothing personal to me, I'd just like to know how he's viewed from other parts.

 

[lean mean &green]

Lebron James.

Chad "Ocho-Cinco" Johnson.

Brett Favre.

Alex "A-Rod" Rodriguez.

All self-aggrandizing posers. And that's just a list off the top of my head. You want a list of coaches who think they're more important than the games they coach? Geno Auriemma and Pat Summit in women's college basketball, any football coach college or pro, etc.

American athletes know that the real money is in how they market themselves. So many call attention to themselves and wind up morphing into the colossal egomaniacs that are unique to the world of sports in any other country.

Armstrong is the posterboy of this phenomena; the apotheosis, if you will.

The uniqueness of America brings about a uniqueness in the type of human beings professional athletes become.

I know plenty about Americans, brother. I've only lived here all of my life.

i think you proved Oldman's point. the athletes you mention, while remaining successful on the field, have become much less popular with fans in general because of their personalitly traits. some of them, quite unpopular outside of the cities in which they play.

 

[Granville57]

This thread is about news dealing with Armstrong first and foremost, but the whole Twitter campaign strand started to take on a life of its own. I have split if off and redirected...

A good move, no doubt.
But maybe we could back it up even a bit further, since this is where the narrative really started to change...

Mods, maybe separating the Bicycling Mag posts into a unique thread, from post# 382 on (minus the off-topic trolling arguments), wouldn't be a bad idea?

As far as calling out any forum members in terms of true identity (unless they offer themselves):
That's probably not a path any of us should go down.