Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[MarkvW]

Your obsession with Floyd is totally stupid at this point, and it serves no purpose other than to perpetuate the grudge you hold against him.

The people who were called to give testimony have things to say that go beyond Landis. They were not simply brought in to corroborate his testimony for the sake of seeing if he has any credibility. Get off that already.

From all the agencies involved, maybe it's time for you to realize that Landis does have credibility because none of this would have gone this far if people weren't coming forward and saying "Yes, Landis told the truth, and by the way, here is what I know..."

Stop the personal attacks. Nothing I wrote is the slightest bit controversial. If Floyd was the Pope, the prosecutor would still corroborate him if he could.

It is ALL about the JURY. Twelve people, some of whom are as dumb as the densest Clinic-head. Every single thing that is going on is directly linked and focused upon how a case is going to be presented to those twelve ordinary, normally prejudiced human beings. Corroboration is GOLD. I burnishes Floyd. It makes him look good. No prosecutor would ever give it up.

You foolishly assume I have a vendetta against Floyd. That's absurd. I believe he's totally telling the truth about Lance as he sees it. Floyd's also a big fat liar. All dopers are big fat liars. Unfortunately you can only catch one doper big fat liar with another doper big fat liar. YOU may idiotically forget that you are dealing with a big fat liar, but the JURY never will. That is why you corroborate, why you wiretap, etc.

 

[Anonymous]

I'll partially confirm this, at least from my "average American" view...

I'm obviously a cycling fan but don't really give a rip over who's doping. I used to, but now....meh. I'm also a real libertarian, so that likely plays into the matter.


That said, should Armstrong be found guilty of tax evasion or something similar, he'd enter scumbag territory for me.

Right now, he's in the "glad he's gone, but thanks for the 2003 tour" category.

From my "smart guy but not legally savvy" perspective, Fraud (in relation to the team and doping) seems ridiculous... I think the government portraying him as some "mafia drug boss" forcing teammates to drug up or not make the tour squad is also a stretch, too, but we'll see, I guess.

I can respect an opinion like yours. I find his treatment of people like Betsy Andreau, Simeoni, Bassons, Tex Pat, and others to put him into scumbag territory myself, but I can respect that you don't. I do believe however that he will be proven to be the scumbag you are not sure he is, but who knows?

 

[Anonymous]

I think Lance should get the Pass on ALL crimes - not just the doping ones.

The message that would send = "if you want to get away with cyclocheating you better damn well work your *** off and do massive charity work"

And bust the slacker *** cyclocheaters like Ricco to reinforce the message. Just my 2 cents.

I'd rather see them bust both kinds because it sets a bad precedent to let off the guys who do charity work because charities to cover for doping would be come the new "asthma" in the peloton lol.

 

[Benotti69]

I'll partially confirm this, at least from my "average American" view...

I'm obviously a cycling fan but don't really give a rip over who's doping. I used to, but now....meh. I'm also a real libertarian, so that likely plays into the matter.


That said, should Armstrong be found guilty of tax evasion or something similar, he'd enter scumbag territory for me.

Right now, he's in the "glad he's gone, but thanks for the 2003 tour" category.

From my "smart guy but not legally savvy" perspective, Fraud (in relation to the team and doping) seems ridiculous... I think the government portraying him as some "mafia drug boss" forcing teammates to drug up or not make the tour squad is also a stretch, too, but we'll see, I guess.

So the fact that this guy ruled the biggest cycling event/race in the world for 7 years on a PED program that no one else had access to using USPostal dollars is 'meh' for you. What do you think everyone else trying to win the tour is modelling their success on? Water and ice vests? As for 'mafia drug boss', never heard that! but bully boy team boss, now you're talking.

Libertarians must be pretty ****ed of with a guy like Gunderson and his actions against Simeoni, Betsy, Frankie, Emma O'Reilly, journalists, kimmage, Walsh, former teams mates, etc...square that circle....

 

[Hugh Januss]

Floyd implicated Lim. If Lim's GJ testimony corroborated Floyd, then he could testify to Floyd's prior consistent statements about doping to rebut an opponent's claim that Floyd recently fabricated his testimony. He could also provide expert insight regards common doping techniques. In other words, he could be a good corroborator of Floyd. Beyond that, who knows? If Lim's testimony contradicted Floyd's, it is difficult to see Lim as a gov't witness. I've read reports that link Lim to Armstrong, but I don't know anything about the nature of that connection.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/allen-lim-confirmed-with-radioshack

There is this online search engine called Google, when you are forming strong opinions about things that you really don't know that much about a few minutes on google makes you sound smarter.

Lim was FL's personal trainer and "proved" that he didn't dope by analyzing his power meter info from stage 17, the stage that Floyd won then tested positive on. He next turned up as the "rice cake guru" on the Garmin (clean) team and then moved on to promote clean cycling with Bruyneel, where he worked with clean cyclist Lance Armstrong.
He might have a lot to talk about if convinced that it is in his best interests to tell the truth.

 

[Elagabalus]

... I'm also a real libertarian, so that likely plays into the matter....

TMI, man! We only need to know if your with the lance-haters or against the lance-haters here in the clinic. The general politics thread is that way -->*


*where you'll find libertarian ninety-five rpm fighting for his virtual life as I type!

 

[sniper]

Did anybody understand the "but" in this title?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/armstrong-investigation-progressing-but-case-is-solid

 

[forumlurker]

Did anybody understand the "but" in this title?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/armstrong-investigation-progressing-but-case-is-solid

the link gets messed up by bolding it. http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/armstrong-investigation-progressing-but-case-is-solid

 

[flicker]

Which is why it's all going to come as quite a shock - I don't think the "average American" really cares whether or not Armstrong/USPS riders were doping, the average American probably wouldn't be too surprised to learn that they were, and if the investigation were just about doping, I doubt too many people would care.

But charges like fraud and money laundering and so on and so forth, that's an entirely different category, especially when it involves someone with Armstrong's reputation among the general population. Even if he were to skate, just being associated with charges like that would be enough to tarnish his reputation for good.

And that is setting aside all of the testimony of multiple teammates and whoever else about the doping itself, ie on the sporting side of things. Right now, it's being portrayed as Landis' word vs Armstrong's, but that'll change pretty quickly when the testimony of other USPS riders/personnel is released.

Even if he is let off the hook legally, I can't see that anything good is going to come from this for Armstrong.

Being on the clinic it is realized that this a spurned fan-boys sight.
To get perspective on Armstrong and a prosecution, please revert to Martha Stuart(insider trading) Bill and Hillary Clinton(Whitewater) banking scandal, LBJ (protecting oil interests, involving the US in an illegal war), and see Running with Arnold(association with Nazis, sexism, lying habitually etc.)

In the next few years, Lance may have a little problem, however, he is making the correct moves for a future in politics, if that is his wishes.

 

[JRTinMA]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/allen-lim-confirmed-with-radioshack

There is this online search engine called Google, when you are forming strong opinions about things that you really don't know that much about a few minutes on google makes you sound smarter.

Lim was FL's personal trainer and "proved" that he didn't dope by analyzing his power meter info from stage 17, the stage that Floyd won then tested positive on. He next turned up as the "rice cake guru" on the Garmin (clean) team and then moved on to promote clean cycling with Bruyneel, where he worked with clean cyclist Lance Armstrong.
He might have a lot to talk about if convinced that it is in his best interests to tell the truth.

I don't doubt he has a lot to add but I suspect he has very little to add via LA. In light of the fact that LA was still making contact with Ferrari (allegedly) I doubt he showed up at early season training last year and said, YaY a new doping doctor. Dopers have routines.

 

[flicker]

And you would be wrong. You might be stateing the reason you bought your garage decoration. The article attributes it to higher fuel costs.

2 billion dollars spent on bike routes in 2 years in the USA, Lance/Greg effect!

 

[flicker]

There are a lot of posters like uspostal here who appear to have zero interest in seeing justice served. Their only interest seems to be in acquitting Armstrong.

If the guy's innocent, which based on the evidence thus far, appears to have a probability of zero, he will be acquitted and his legacy will continue.

If he's guilty, he will go down as one of the greatest sports frauds in history. His legion of sycophants, who have lived off the mushrooms growing on that turd, will have nothing but brown lips to show for it.

Regardless of the outcome of this case, the way that Armstrong has behaved towards Betsy and Frankie Andreu, Simeoni, Landis, Kimmage, and others shows him to be nothing but a classless thug whose only saving grace lies in seven trophies and their questionable legitimacy.

Please. Tell me all the good that B&F Andreu, Simeoni,Landis, Kimmage and others have done for cycling, halth awareness, cancer awareness, etc. compared to Lance.

 

[MarkvW]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/allen-lim-confirmed-with-radioshack

There is this online search engine called Google, when you are forming strong opinions about things that you really don't know that much about a few minutes on google makes you sound smarter.

Lim was FL's personal trainer and "proved" that he didn't dope by analyzing his power meter info from stage 17, the stage that Floyd won then tested positive on. He next turned up as the "rice cake guru" on the Garmin (clean) team and then moved on to promote clean cycling with Bruyneel, where he worked with clean cyclist Lance Armstrong.
He might have a lot to talk about if convinced that it is in his best interests to tell the truth.

I'm reminded of Major Reisman explaining to Franco why he has to go up the rope.

But Allen Lim might have said something that completely corroborates Floyd when he was under oath, under penalty of perjury. Of course, he might also have been consistent--but then he wouldn't be called as a witness, would he?

 

[flicker]

I am glad you guys are bringing this out because the thing is, this is the exact definition of trolling. I know that the mods hate to hear that word now, but if you are a mod, and you read the above, how can any of you say that such a motive is anything but trolling? This is what many have been saying. Me, I don't have that much of a problem with it, but it seems there has been some hand wringing over people calling things trolling, and if a person's ONLY motive is to incite, that is the pure definition of trolling.

Trolls live under bridges. Lance lovers are living large, accept.

 

[JRTinMA]

So the fact that this guy ruled the biggest cycling event/race in the world for 7 years on a PED program that no one else had access to using USPostal dollars is 'meh' for you. What do you think everyone else trying to win the tour is modelling their success on? Water and ice vests? As for 'mafia drug boss', never heard that! but bully boy team boss, now you're talking.

Libertarians must be pretty ****ed of with a guy like Gunderson and his actions against Simeoni, Betsy, Frankie, Emma O'Reilly, journalists, kimmage, Walsh, former teams mates, etc...square that circle....

To include Simeoni in the same list as Betsy and Emma O'Reilly (Bassons often too) is an insult to that group. What LA did to him was despicable for sure but it was one doper to another, I hardly feel bad for him and there was many other riders who dissed on him that day including Pozzato I believe. I have always guessed that Simeoni rolled on Ferrari because USPS had hired Ferrari exclusively at that point and he was mad he lost his connection. The doctor had a good formula for success, doped him right into a national championship jersey.

 

[D-Queued]

Please. Tell me all the good that B&F Andreu, Simeoni,Landis, Kimmage and others have done for cycling, halth awareness, cancer awareness, etc. compared to Lance.

Given that Lance is a cancer to the sport, they have all done plenty to raise cancer awareness.

Now, tell us why Lance should get a pass on criminal behavior just because he gets to fly a private jet so long as he says 'cancer' every day or so?

Is this how the US judicial system should approach all law-breakers?

If you say something about cancer, you get a free ride?

Does it work for speeding tickets and parking tickets? Or, just for felonies?

Dave.

 

[flicker]

Given that Lance is a cancer to the sport, they have all done plenty to raise cancer awareness.

Now, tell us why Lance should get a pass on criminal behavior just because he gets to fly a private jet so long as he says 'cancer' every day or so?

Is this how the US judicial system should approach all law-breakers?

If you say something about cancer, you get a free ride?

Does it work for speeding tickets and parking tickets? Or, just for felonies?

Dave.

I am sorry if you do not understand pro sports, business, and business in general.
Lance did great for his teams and US cycling, end of story!~

 

[D-Queued]

I am sorry if you do not understand pro sports, business, and business in general.
Lance did great for his teams and US cycling, end of story!~

Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry you can't believe in miracles...

Thanks for answering the question. You are ok with felons so long as they let people know that cancer exists.

How many people in the world do you think are unaware of cancer, anyways?

Dave.

 

[MarkvW]

Did anybody understand the "but" in this title?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/armstrong-investigation-progressing-but-case-is-solid

The underlying source appears to be the same AP story that was out yesterday. I saw nothing materially different in the story itself.

 

[flicker]

Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry you can't believe in miracles...

Thanks for answering the question. You are ok with felons so long as they let people know that cancer exists.

How many people in the world do you think are unaware of cancer, anyways?

Dave.

Probably anyone who smokes, works with toxic material does illegal drugs, doesn't get breast screened, colonscopy. Anyone who works with toxic dusts, lead mines, lives near uranium mines, etc.......

 

[VeloCity]

Lance did great for his teams and US cycling, end of story!~

I think Novitztky might have a different ending in mind for that story.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

To include Simeoni in the same list as Betsy and Emma O'Reilly (Bassons often too) is an insult to that group. What LA did to him was despicable for sure but it was one doper to another, I hardly feel bad for him and there was many other riders who dissed on him that day including Pozzato I believe. I have always guessed that Simeoni rolled on Ferrari because USPS had hired Ferrari exclusively at that point and he was mad he lost his connection. The doctor had a good formula for success, doped him right into a national championship jersey.

I don't see any difference between Simeoni and the others, as all suffered the wrath of Armstrong for speaking out.

Others may have joined in once he went back to the peloton but only one rider felt the need to chase him down in the first place.

Also your guess is wrong - Simeoni stopped working with Ferrari when his team stopped paying for it in 1997, which was before Armstrongs exclusive arrangement.
Also Simeoni did not win the Nat Champs until 2008, I doubt very much that he made up with Ferrari and was back on Micheles program.

 

[flicker]

I think Novitztky might have a different ending in mind for that story.

Sorry, Novitzky is not as good as this man Ken Starr, a naturally gifted investigator.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Starr

 

[JRTinMA]

I don't see any difference between Simeoni and the others, as all suffered the wrath of Armstrong for speaking out.

Others may have joined in once he went back to the peloton but only one rider felt the need to chase him down in the first place.

Also your guess is wrong - Simeoni stopped working with Ferrari when his team stopped paying for it in 1997, which was before Armstrongs exclusive arrangement.
Also Simeoni did not win the Nat Champs until 2008, I doubt very much that he made up with Ferrari and was back on Micheles program.

My mistake, I thought he also won in '99. I see a huge difference between two dopers in a ****ing match and two women who tried to do the right thing. They spoke up and got slapped down, they tried to clean up the sport. Simeoni spoke up when he lost his supply and was jealous in likelihood.

 

[D-Queued]

Probably anyone who smokes, works with toxic material does illegal drugs, doesn't get breast screened, colonscopy. Anyone who works with toxic dusts, lead mines, lives near uranium mines, etc.......

OMG!

Smokers don't know about cancer????

They should put warnings on cigarette packages.

Dave.