Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[powerste]

So why is he paying such exorbitant amounts of money on legal fees when nothing's happened yet?

Personally, I am hoping that it's because he's scared s**tless.

 

[Stingray34]

Armstrong could never have been a catalyst for change.

First of all, he would have to voluntarily rescind every single TdF title he won.

Secondly, he would have to admit to the whole apparatus that made his doping possible.

One of the points people always miss is that the Armstrong story isn't just about doping, it's about having the access, money and power to corrupt the sport from it's very core.

This is what makes his career so much more than about the doping.

100% spot on.

This is why the man evokes such negative emotions, much more so than a Contador or Schumacher, who are just cynical players.

 

[sniper]

100% spot on.

This is why the man evokes such negative emotions, much more so than a Contador or Schumacher, who are just cynical players.

Hm...
Though both must be punished and evoke negative emotions, if I were in the privileged position to choose between Armstrong behind bars or AC off the road with a four year ban, I'd choose the latter, no doubt about it.

Though he was/is an *******, Armstrong did have the right properties to be an idol: charismatic, well-worded, charming if he needed to be, and he lied/cheated with conviction.
AC's got none of these properties to be honest.

 

[powerste]

Armstrong could never have been a catalyst for change.

The optimist in me takes issue with the word "never" but I agree 100% that we are way past (as in 10+ years) any hope of Armstrong himself choosing to drive change. But I agree with the author (again, glass half-full thinking) that there was a window of time in which this could have happened - just not with the person that we all know LA to be.

First of all, he would have to voluntarily rescind every single TdF title he won.

Secondly, he would have to admit to the whole apparatus that made his doping possible.

One of the points people always miss is that the Armstrong story isn't just about doping, it's about having the access, money and power to corrupt the sport from it's very core.

This is what makes his career so much more than about the doping.

To the bold, I couldn't agree more. I think the VN piece starts in that direction by citing the structural problem of doping...but it doesn't go far enough in pointing out the way LA/Hog/HV/PMcQ, and many others completely manipulated that structure for personal gain.

 

[Stingray34]

One thing I find strange is the fact that he's hired all these high-powered attorneys yet supposedly the Feds haven't spoken to him yet and he hasn't been charged with anything.

So why is he paying such exorbitant amounts of money on legal fees when nothing's happened yet?

If nothing's happened yet - target letter GJ - he soon expects it will. He knows the inquiry has substance; there's lots to find, lots to conceal.

 

[Stevie039]

http://www.statesman.com/news/local/leave-lance-alone-its-just-a-french-bike-1519072.html

epic fail

 

[Benotti69]

One thing I find strange is the fact that he's hired all these high-powered attorneys yet supposedly the Feds haven't spoken to him yet and he hasn't been charged with anything.

So why is he paying such exorbitant amounts of money on legal fees when nothing's happened yet?

the one thing i find strange is how badly his very costly high powered lawyers are dealing with a federal case in which their client has not been charged.

he'd be better of paying Polish and Flickie to write some of the PR releases, but then again maybe he does

 

[Stingray34]

Hm...
Though both must be punished and evoke negative emotions, if I were in the privileged position to choose between Armstrong behind bars or AC off the road with a four year ban, I'd choose the latter, no doubt about it.

Though he was/is an *******, Armstrong did have the right properties to be an idol: charismatic, well-worded, charming if he needed to be, and he lied/cheated with conviction.
AC's got none of these properties to be honest.

Such qualities impress you?

Sounds like you have a library of books on serial killers.

 

[sniper]

Such qualities impress you?

Sounds like you have a library of books on serial killers.

point taken.

anyway, to make a long story short: I always found Armstrong an interesting personality.
AC only gets on my nerves.

 

[veganrob]

Hm...
Though both must be punished and evoke negative emotions, if I were in the privileged position to choose between Armstrong behind bars or AC off the road with a four year ban, I'd choose the latter, no doubt about it.

Though he was/is an *******, Armstrong did have the right properties to be an idol: charismatic, well-worded, charming if he needed to be, and he lied/cheated with conviction.
AC's got none of these properties to be honest.

I hope you are only joking about LA's qualities. Otherwise he certainly had you fooled, just like he wanted.

 

[Stingray34]

John Kelso hard at work

 

[sniper]

I hope you are only joking about LA's qualities. Otherwise he certainly had you fooled, just like he wanted.

I'm waiting for some fanboy(s) to back me up here.
anyway, don't get me wrong. I was only addressing his superficial qualities, which is the only thing I had an eye for when I started watching cycling in the late 90s.
But, believe me, I'm quite eager to see Armstrong fall right now and I'm fully conscious of why he deserves the punishment he no doubt is going to get.

 

[Topangarider]

To the bold, I couldn't agree more. I think the VN piece starts in that direction by citing the structural problem of doping...but it doesn't go far enough in pointing out the way LA/Hog/HV/PMcQ, and many others completely manipulated that structure for personal gain.

Absolutely. It's a distraction to talk about local guys racing on a sudafed bc they have a cold. Lacks a sense of porportionality. Big difference between that and selling team bikes to finance doping, spending huge sums on doping doctors, and pressuring team members to dope as a condition for employment.

 

[thehog]

Absolutely. It's a distraction to talk about local guys racing on a sudafed bc they have a cold. Lacks a sense of porportionality. Big difference between that and selling team bikes to finance doping, spending huge sums on doping doctors, and pressuring team members to dope as a condition for employment.

“The Falciani list”

 

[Topangarider]

“The Falciani list”

True, I don't know many local guys who hid money in Switzerland to finance a sudafed habit.

 

[Hitchey]

Hm...
Though both must be punished and evoke negative emotions, if I were in the privileged position to choose between Armstrong behind bars or AC off the road with a four year ban, I'd choose the latter, no doubt about it.

Though he was/is an *******, Armstrong did have the right properties to be an idol: charismatic, well-worded, charming if he needed to be, and he lied/cheated with conviction.
AC's got none of these properties to be honest.

You might want to lay off the hallucinogens.

I recall his post race interviews after many stages of the tour and couldn't help but think he was about as well-worded as a caveman.

"Charming as he needed to be" is akin to a David Koresh like manipulator.

A very sad testament that you suggest that the qualities you list are what constitutes an idol.

But wait, now you say that he should get what he deserves and that AC should get a 4 year ban?

This passive agressive stance is right in line with the Fibiani flavor du jour. Sorry pal, try this propaganda on the livestrong site, too many here with too much info and common sense to take a bite of that rotten cheese.

 

[Weapons of @ss Destruction]

Absolutely. It's a distraction to talk about local guys racing on a sudafed bc they have a cold. Lacks a sense of porportionality. Big difference between that and selling team bikes to finance doping, spending huge sums on doping doctors, and pressuring team members to dope as a condition for employment.

+1

This whole piece is just another extension of the "It's a level playing field" and "everyone is doing it" gambit from the apologists, with a smattering of "I'm not a fanboy" equivalent statements thrown in for good measure as a weak attempt to secure credibility as a supposedly balanced piece.

 

[jackwolf]

Hm...
[...]if I were in the privileged position to choose between Armstrong behind bars or AC off the road with a four year ban, I'd choose the latter, no doubt about it.

So the "everybody's doing it" excuse only works for Armstrong, right?

Hm...
Though he was/is an *******, Armstrong [...] lied/cheated with conviction.
AC's got none of these properties to be honest.

So, Contador's not an ******* and doesn't lie/cheat with conviction. He just wins races and sort of keeps himself to himself. (And he may or may not be a doper, we still don't know.) What a nasty piece of a human being, isn't he?

You need an urgent appointment with a psychiatrist, mate.

 

[sniper]

You might want to lay off the hallucinogens.

I recall his post race interviews after many stages of the tour and couldn't help but think he was about as well-worded as a caveman.

"Charming as he needed to be" is akin to a David Koresh like manipulator.

A very sad testament that you suggest that the qualities you list are what constitutes an idol.

But wait, now you say that he should get what he deserves and that AC should get a 4 year ban?

This passive agressive stance is right in line with the Fibiani flavor du jour. Sorry pal, try this propaganda on the livestrong site, too many here with too much info and common sense to take a bite of that rotten cheese.

So the "everybody's doing it" excuse only works for Armstrong, right?



So, Contador's not an ******* and doesn't lie/cheat with conviction. He just wins races and sort of keeps himself to himself. (And he may or may not be a doper, we still don't know.) What a nasty piece of a human being, isn't he?

You need an urgent appointment with a psychiatrist, mate.

I understand you guys are upset, cuz my post wasn't really nuanced.
note, though, that I was replying to a post which said that Armstrong is evoking more negative sentiments than Contador.
I'm only saying that for me its reverse: Contador gets on my nerves much more than Armstrong does.
Apart from that, I was trying to give some sort of unbiassed appraisal of Armstrong, which you might wanna take notice of, cuz it explains why the guy still has a considerable fanclub (to which I do not belong).

 

[mewmewmew13]

You might want to lay off the hallucinogens.

I recall his post race interviews after many stages of the tour and couldn't help but think he was about as well-worded as a caveman.

"Charming as he needed to be" is akin to a David Koresh like manipulator.

A very sad testament that you suggest that the qualities you list are what constitutes an idol.

But wait, now you say that he should get what he deserves and that AC should get a 4 year ban?

This passive agressive stance is right in line with the Fibiani flavor du jour. Sorry pal, try this propaganda on the livestrong site, too many here with too much info and common sense to take a bite of that rotten cheese.

I like your reply, Hitchey.
Concise and correct.

"Charismatic, charming and well-worded " are certainly not qualities that fit my description of LA and it's delusional to expect anyone who is on to Wonderboy to agree.

 

[sniper]

I like your reply, Hitchey.
Concise and correct.

"Charismatic, charming and well-worded " are certainly not qualities that fit my description of LA and it's delusional to expect anyone who is on to Wonderboy to agree.

Ok, name me a tour de france winner with more charisma than armstrong.

(NB: i use the term charisma here in a neutral sense, i.e. regardless of whether this charisma is positive or negative)

Whether you like it or not, it's quite obvious that Armstrong could not have gotten all these people behind him, ride for him, and lie and cheat for him, if he did not have at least a minimum of charisma.
(again, the term charsima does not imply anything of 'being a good person').

 

[Irish2009]

Sniper, I'm sure you'd find Clentador much more entertaining if you learn to speak Spanish.

 

[sniper]

Sniper, I'm sure you'd find Clentador much more entertaining if you learn to speak Spanish.

.....

at least you understand me.
it's not about me liking armstrong. it's about me disliking Contador

 

[jackwolf]

Sniper, I'm sure you'd find Clentador much more entertaining if you learn to speak Spanish.

He's done an interview in English recently. The interviewer is Spanish too, so they're both talking to each other in English with their Spanish accents, like one of those cheesy Antonio Banderas films. It's quite funny.

 

[Benotti69]

http://www.statesman.com/news/local/leave-lance-alone-its-just-a-french-bike-1519072.html

epic fail

his response to my email.

Dear Monsieur DB,
It's a humor column. Thanks for the note and have a good Sunday.
John K.

I think he failed on the humour