Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[Benotti69]

I found this story to be even more reveling in terms of relating to the LA case:
http://powerwall.msnbc.msn.com/politics/john-edwards-enabler-claims-vindication-over-indictment-1690739.story
We might be seeing more of this type of thing soon.

Are you suggesting that there might be an loyal aide working with the feds against LA? Any guesses? Big George?

I like that its claimed they left no stone unturned, so if that is the case they might still be turning stuff in LA's case?

 

[Topangarider]

You think Tiger and his ex are as happy as Lance & Kirsten?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV6gHTzcYak&NR=1
.
.
.

Don't know and don't care

 

[thehog]

The good ole book deal trick:

Speaking at The Hay Festival today, Millar, promoting a new book, was asked about doping – and Armstrong.

He said: “I don’t think the recent allegations have damaged cycling any more than it’s already been damaged – I think it’s damaging Lance Armstrong more.

“I think this federal investigation is a good thing, and it’s simply going to offer everyone closure – Lance Armstrong and the world included.”

http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/millar-senses-armstrong-closure-507701.html

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Don't know and don't care

She's still in love with him, but I sense there is an edge developing. She very quickly call him on his referring to her daughters when they are "our daughters." Ouch.

 

[ChrisE]

She's still in love with him, but I sense there is an edge developing. She very quickly call him on his referring to her daughters when they are "our daughters." Ouch.

Pretty funny her attitude towards him vs much of the people in here. We all have our price, don't we?

 

[JRTinMA]

Pretty funny her attitude towards him vs much of the people in here. We all have our price, don't we?

The clinic has labeled him a narcissist, psychopath and sociopath. If this collective think tank is right, that and a few millie in hush money must seem like a really good deal. 60k a month in child support ain't bad either.

 

[patricknd]

The clinic has labeled him a narcissist, psychopath and sociopath. If this collective think tank is right, that and a few millie in hush money must seem like a really good deal. 60k a month in child support ain't bad either.

think the shadetree shrinks here are wrong in their diagnosis? they all read wikipedia you know.

 

[Granville57]

Are you suggesting that there might be an loyal aide working with the feds against LA? Any guesses?

I was thinking more along the lines of the Champions Club crew or someone from the inner financial circle. Someone with a lot to lose and with very little to gain by continuing the myth.

 

[D-Queued]

think the shadetree shrinks here are wrong in their diagnosis? they all read wikipedia you know.

Read it?

Heck, I am one step lower than that as a contributor!

Dave.

 

[Topangarider]

I was thinking more along the lines of the Champions Club crew or someone from the inner financial circle. Someone with a lot to lose and with very little to gain by continuing the myth.

From the WSJ article on these big financial backers it seems that David Tiger Williams is not so fond of Lance anymore

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704457604576011490820993006.html

 

[Oldman]

From the WSJ article on these big financial backers it seems that David Tiger Williams is not so fond of Lance anymore

I imagine having a Federal probe up your a*s might make you a little testy with Mr. Teste.

 

[JRTinMA]

think the shadetree shrinks here are wrong in their diagnosis? they all read wikipedia you know.

The first rule of the clinic is...group think is always right.

 

[patricknd]

Read it?

Heck, I am one step lower than that as a contributor!

Dave.

Not a contributor? And to think I respected you.

 

[red_flanders]

The first rule of the clinic is...group think is always right.

Let me get this straight. For a couple of years this place has been discussing what's actually going on in the sport, and in particular with Armstrong, which goes directly against the mainstream media stories and general public opinion. That general point of view, that doping is rampant, pervasive and fully embraced and fostered by Armstrong, that is now "groupthink".







Got it.

 

[JRTinMA]

Let me get this straight. For a couple of years this place has been discussing what's actually going on in the sport, and in particular with Armstrong, which goes directly against the mainstream media stories and general public opinion. That general point of view, that doping is rampant, pervasive and fully embraced and fostered by Armstrong, that is now "groupthink".

Got it.

It was groupthink in the clinic, yes. You even described it, is that bad? Wait didn't I read someplace you are just an angry dru.......

 

[webvan]

From the WSJ article on these big financial backers it seems that David Tiger Williams is not so fond of Lance anymore

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704457604576011490820993006.html

Thanks for linking, I'd been looking for that article for a while. Very revealing, the strongarming (Weisel threatening Greg), the lack of common sense (no one believe anyone doped!), etc...

 

[red_flanders]

It was groupthink in the clinic, yes. You even described it, is that bad? Wait didn't I read someplace you are just an angry dru.......

Groupthink is a phenomenon where groups try and avoid conflict so they avoid disagreement.

I think you'd be hard pressed to describe that here.

What you have here is a majority of people who informed on the topic and make simple conclusions from mountains of evidence. Is it groupthink to say the Clippers are a crap NBA franchise? Nope, ample evidence over time on that one.

 

[Benotti69]

From the WSJ article on these big financial backers it seems that David Tiger Williams is not so fond of Lance anymore

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704457604576011490820993006.html

Bingo

Mr. Williams was furious, say people familiar with the matter. He talked about suing Mr. Armstrong and said he considered their friendship over, these people say.

Late last year, after Mr. Landis's comeback fizzled, he again began thinking about speaking out about doping. He reached out to Mr. Williams, who told him the story was bound to come out and that Mr. Landis should make sure whatever he said was accurate, Mr. Landis says. Mr. Williams has said that his advice wasn't influenced by his dispute with Mr. Armstrong, according to Mr. Landis and a person familiar with the matter.

Bet Weisel is sweating, never mind Armstrong.

 

[sniper]

From the WSJ article on these big financial backers it seems that David Tiger Williams is not so fond of Lance anymore

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704457604576011490820993006.html

from the top drawer, this article.
written pre-SI and pre-60m.
chapeau.
the article has the flavor of a subtle sarcastic

The managers told her, she says, that Mr. Armstrong was living like a "monk" somewhere in the French Alps, and that some other teams were "dirty," but that everyone knew the good teams from the bad ones. Ms. Sonnenberg says she believed the Postal team was clean.

In January 2005, team sponsors met at a hotel in Ojai, Calif. At a dinner meeting, sponsors asked about doping, recalls one attendee. Johan Bruyneel, the team's director, told sponsors that the team had a "zero tolerance" policy toward doping, and violators would be dealt with harshly, this person recalls. Mr. Bruyneel declined to comment.

 

[D-Queued]

Groupthink is a phenomenon where groups try and avoid conflict so they avoid disagreement.

I think you'd be hard pressed to describe that here.

What you have here is a majority of people who informed on the topic and make simple conclusions from mountains of evidence. Is it groupthink to say the Clippers are a crap NBA franchise? Nope, ample evidence over time on that one.

Groupthink is a product of the 'Norming' phase in group development (Tuckman model).

Welcome to the Forum. We are stuck between 'Forming' and 'Norming' in the 'Storming' phase. Storming is characterized by different ideas competing with one another.

I don't think that there is much hope for all of us to move forward.

Dave.

 

[Topangarider]

from the top drawer, this article.
written pre-SI and pre-60m.
chapeau.
the article has the flavor of a subtle sarcastic

Lots of finger pointing in this piece. Daggers everywhere behind the scenes, I inagine.

 

[powerste]

More Velonews Op-Ed

A bit rambling and tries to cover a lot of ground, but a good perspective from an invested but hardly engrossed individual:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/06/news/op-ed-series-2-dopers-suck-you-suck-so-do-i_177063

I absolutely love that VN is finally publishing the following sentiments:

Doping is not a moral problem; it’s a structural problem. The cycling community cannot address doping in a substantial way until all the players — from UCI president Pat McQuaid to the Cat 5 racer who’s sure he’s clean — acknowledge this.

If Armstrong had publicly acknowledged doping — his and that of most of the peloton — he had the political capital to both call for change and make it happen. Armstrong could have radically altered how cycling — maybe even athletics in general — deals with performance-enhancing drugs.

At this point, neither a plea bargain nor a tearful apology on the no-longer-existent Oprah show has the potential to achieve that. Sad.

 

[Berzin]

At this point, neither a plea bargain nor a tearful apology on the no-longer-existent Oprah show has the potential to achieve that. Sad.

Armstrong could never have been a catalyst for change.

First of all, he would have to voluntarily rescind every single TdF title he won.

Secondly, he would have to admit to the whole apparatus that made his doping possible.

One of the points people always miss is that the Armstrong story isn't just about doping, it's about having the access, money and power to corrupt the sport from it's very core.

This is what makes his career so much more than about the doping.

 

[Benotti69]

Armstrong could never have been a catalyst for change.

First of all, he would have to voluntarily rescind every single TdF title he won.

Secondly, he would have to admit to the whole apparatus that made his doping possible.

One of the points people always miss is that the Armstrong story isn't just about doping, it's about having the access, money and power to corrupt the sport from it's very core.

This is what makes his career so much more than about the doping.

and why it is so important to bring him and that apparatus down. I imagine the doping is the least of his worries, hence the need to add the lawyers to his side.

 

[Berzin]

and why it is so important to bring him and that apparatus down. I imagine the doping is the least of his worries, hence the need to add the lawyers to his side.

One thing I find strange is the fact that he's hired all these high-powered attorneys yet supposedly the Feds haven't spoken to him yet and he hasn't been charged with anything.

So why is he paying such exorbitant amounts of money on legal fees when nothing's happened yet?