Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[MarkvW]

If he wasn't the target he would have been asked to testify to a GJ as a witness by now.

For someone who is not a target he sure is burning a big hole in his earnings hiring numerous lawyers and PR people to represent him.

The reason we know that LA is a target is because Stephanie McIlvain was hauled in front of a GJ for 7 hours - there is only one reason she was brought in and it was not about the latest Oakley line of sunglasses. . . .


More than likely he has spoken to investigators - the GJ approach appears to be reserved for witnesses that may prove 'hostile' or unlikely to talk. . . .

Faulty reasoning. Using the facts presented in your argument, it is equally possible that Lance is a potential witness just like Tyler and George. McIlvain's testimony (and that of the other Posties' as well) could be explained as an attempt to amass so much evidence that Lance will be under overwhelming pressure to tell the truth when he is called before the GJ and offered a grant of immunity (like the other Posties).

 

[Velodude]

Faulty reasoning. Using the facts presented in your argument, it is equally possible that Lance is a potential witness just like Tyler and George. McIlvain's testimony (and that of the other Posties' as well) could be explained as an attempt to amass so much evidence that Lance will be under overwhelming pressure to tell the truth when he is called before the GJ and offered a grant of immunity (like the other Posties).

Not faulty reasoning.

If LA is the target (there are no wagers in existence that he is not) he can only appear before the GJ at his own request to make a statement to the GJ.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Yes, Tyler testified months ago, I believe.
But doesn't "Witness Intimidation" take place BEFORE a witness testifies?
Lance DOES pay attention to details.
One of the many reasons he won 7 times.

And is depriving someone of delectable Colorado Cuisine truly intimidating?
Is that a Federal Offense?
Is Smoked Scottish Salmon with a side of Foie Gras Terrine that yummy?

C'mon guys.
I understand being a hater is difficult.
And being a fanboy is a walk in the park.
It is not a level playing - I will be the first to admit.
My hat goes off to you guys.

But c'mon.

18 USC 73 Sec. 1512

(b) Whoever knowingly uses intimidation, threatens, or corruptly persuades another person, or attempts to do so, or engages in misleading conduct toward another person, with intent to—
(1) influence, delay, or prevent the testimony of any person in an official proceeding;
(2) cause or induce any person to—
(A) withhold testimony, or withhold a record, document, or other object, from an official proceeding;
(B) alter, destroy, mutilate, or conceal an object with intent to impair the object’s integrity or availability for use in an official proceeding;
(C) evade legal process summoning that person to appear as a witness, or to produce a record, document, or other object, in an official proceeding; or
(D) be absent from an official proceeding to which such person has been summoned by legal process; or
(3) hinder, delay, or prevent the communication to a law enforcement officer or judge of the United States of information relating to the commission or possible commission of a Federal offense or a violation of conditions of probation [1] supervised release,,[1] parole, or release pending judicial proceedings;
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.

This involves likely future testimony by Hamilton at trial of Armstrong, et al. This is very serious stuff. If Fabiani and Armstrong's other lawyers haven't already explained this to Pharmstrong, they darn well better communicate the reality to him ASAP.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Not faulty reasoning.

If LA is the target (there are no wagers in existence that he is not) he can only appear before the GJ at his own request to make a statement to the GJ.

Incorrect. A target can be subpoenaed to testify before the Grand Jury. The target will normally assert a privilege against self-incrimination. Here is a sample target letter from the DoJ's handbook:

This letter is supplied to a witness scheduled to appear before the federal Grand Jury in order to provide helpful background information about the Grand Jury. The Grand Jury consists of from sixteen to twenty-three persons from the District of ___. It is their responsibility to inquire into federal crimes which may have been committed in this District.
As a Grand Jury witness you will be asked to testify and answer questions, and to produce records and documents. Only the members of the Grand Jury, attorneys for the United States and a stenographer are permitted in the Grand Jury room while you testify.
We advise you that the Grand Jury is conducting an investigation of possible violations of federal criminal laws involving, but not necessarily limited to *. You are advised that the destruction or alteration of any document required to be produced before the grand jury constitutes serious violation of federal law, including but not limited to Obstruction of Justice.
You are advised that you are a target of the Grand Jury's investigation. You may refuse to answer any question if a truthful answer to the question would tend to incriminate you. Anything that you do or say may be used against you in a subsequent legal proceeding. If you have retained counsel, who represents you personally, the Grand Jury will permit you a reasonable opportunity to step outside the Grand Jury room and confer with counsel if you desire.
Cordially,

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

I don't like that JV remains silent about his own doping - however I see little to be gained and a lot to lose (for him & others) by making public statements now.

JV speaking about the doping program at U.S. Postal would be the coup de grace to Lance's credibility. It would damage Verbruggen, McQuaid, and everyone else who has hitched their wagon to Lance. It would give journalist the opportunity to discuss Lance's doping without the obligatory questioning of the credibility of witnesses like Floyd and Tyler. The report about what Hincapie said to the grand jury did a whopping amount of damage to Lance. Someone who has the balls, no baggage, and a willingness to speak to the press would do much more.

Maintaining Omerta would not be making any comment on doping - if he had refused to discuss this with the investigators he would have been called before a GJ, which does not appear to be the case.

No, JV is maintaining omerta in the same way that McQuaid and all the other insiders are maintaining it with a constant campaign that tells us how much progress has been made and how the sport has changed despite a constant parade of new doping cases involving the top names in cycling.

To the first part - how?

JV punked out during the SCA case. He told Floyd not to mention any other people's names. Currently he sits quiet, allowing Lance and his hired thugs to terrorize those who are speaking out.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

JV and Lance don't like each other.

JV and PS both don't like Lance.

 

[MarkvW]

Not faulty reasoning.

If LA is the target (there are no wagers in existence that he is not) he can only appear before the GJ at his own request to make a statement to the GJ.

Faulty reasoning. IF LA is NOT the target he can be made to appear before the GJ via the awesome power of a GJ subpoena. If LA IS the target he can also be made to appear before the GJ via the awesome power of a subpoena.

 

[uspostal]

And what/where, exactly, is "his place"?

Please enlighten.

His place is next to Floyds, likes to talk with no facts to back him up. Who are all these other people who he seen do PED ??? LA is the only one who would help him sell a book deal. I'm sure LA was trying to say "hey buddy hell of a great piece of fiction on 60 min last month" And TH just gave LA the elbow to the ribs muttering something not for print here, the manager heard what Tyler said and out he went. La was trying to put him on the book shelf next to Floyds book, in the fiction catagory.

 

[VeloCity]

Thanks Einstein. I mean where did you pick up your amazing abilities to read a situation?

You're soooo right, right now Armstrong's not a target. They are after some junior athletes taking baking soda to improve their lap times at a local meet. Armstrong is small fry and they're using him to get to people lower down the chain.

coffee - can you smell it?

Chill. The fact is, we don't know whether or not Armstrong is "the target", or just one of many, or a rung on the ladder to the bigger game. They may be going after the network of suppliers, Tailwind, Weisel - who knows? Until there's indictments, we have no idea who "the target" is - I don't, and neither do you.

 

[uspostal]

Chill. The fact is, we don't know whether or not Armstrong is "the target", or just one of many, or a rung on the ladder to the bigger game. They may be going after the network of suppliers, Tailwind, Weisel - who knows? Until there's indictments, we have no idea who "the target" is - I don't, and neither do you.

Don't even think of pulling all the wind out of the anti LA crowds sail here. If that happens a great silence will fall over the forum for weeks

 

[poupou]

A new website to resume Lance's career :

http://lancelied.com

 

[VeloCity]

If he wasn't the target he would have been asked to testify to a GJ as a witness by now.

For someone who is not a target he sure is burning a big hole in his earnings hiring numerous lawyers and PR people to represent him.

The reason we know that LA is a target is because Stephanie McIlvain was hauled in front of a GJ for 7 hours - there is only one reason she was brought in and it was not about the latest Oakley line of sunglasses.

Armstrong isn't going to testify voluntarily, everyone knows that, and everyone knows that he's going to resist tooth and nail. And it's also pretty obvious that he's not averse to lying, as we saw in the SCA case. So could be that they need to turn the screws on him as much as possible - ie back him into such a corner with such a weight of evidence that he has no choice but to cut a deal. As MarkvW said earlier, we don't know what Novitzky wants with Armstrong - maybe it's just his testimony that Novitzky's after.

It seems to be a given around here that Armstrong is the primary target. Could be that he is. Could equally be that he isn't. Until there's indictments, stating as fact that he's a target is imo mostly wishful thinking.

 

[VeloCity]

Don't even think of pulling all the wind out of the anti LA crowds sail here. If that happens a great silence will fall over the forum for weeks

Actually I mostly agree with them - in the end, Armstrong will be in a heap of trouble. I'm just not convinced that he is the ultimate target in all of this.

 

[Benotti69]

hopefully he'll do a LA vs TH one.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

His place is next to Floyds, likes to talk with no facts to back him up. Who are all these other people who he seen do PED ??? LA is the only one who would help him sell a book deal. I'm sure LA was trying to say "hey buddy hell of a great piece of fiction on 60 min last month" And TH just gave LA the elbow to the ribs muttering something not for print here, the manager heard what Tyler said and out he went. La was trying to put him on the book shelf next to Floyds book, in the fiction catagory.

Are you channeling Fabiani or are you in Fabiani's employ? When the indictments come down, I think people like you will have serious decisions about where to seek treatment for depression. Than again, maybe not. True believers stay true, right?

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

It seems to be a given around here that Armstrong is the primary target. Could be that he is. Could equally be that he isn't. Until there's indictments, stating as fact that he's a target is imo mostly wishful thinking.

It does not matter if Lance is indicted. Any case will expose the massive doping operation at Postal and Discovery. This will do the most damage to him. It is why he is currently spending so much effort defending his public image rather than hunkering down to weather the criminal case.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Actually I mostly agree with them - in the end, Armstrong will be in a heap of trouble. I'm just not convinced that he is the ultimate target in all of this.

IMO, it's Weisel who they want along with Stapleton and some others in the corporate world.

 

[VeloCity]

It does not matter if Lance is indicted. Any case will expose the massive doping operation at Postal and Discovery. This will do the most damage to him. It is why he is currently spending so much effort defending his public image rather than hunkering down to weather the criminal case.

I agree. But that doesn't mean that he's a target of the investigation necessarily. He could, in the end, be no different than Tyler or Floyd (except in stature, ie Armstrong being exposed would be much bigger news than Tyler or Floyd) - Armstrong could be just a means to an end.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

I agree. But that doesn't mean that he's a target of the investigation necessarily. He could, in the end, be no different than Tyler or Floyd (except in stature, ie Armstrong being exposed would be much bigger news than Tyler or Floyd) - Armstrong could be just a means to an end.

I'll bet you a case of your favorite beer/ale that he's a target.

 

[Benotti69]

I'll bet you a case of your favorite beer/ale that he's a target.

beetroot juice is all the (roid) rage these days

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Faulty reasoning. Using the facts presented in your argument, it is equally possible that Lance is a potential witness just like Tyler and George. McIlvain's testimony (and that of the other Posties' as well) could be explained as an attempt to amass so much evidence that Lance will be under overwhelming pressure to tell the truth when he is called before the GJ and offered a grant of immunity (like the other Posties).

No its not.
You think McIlvain was brought in so that they have enough evidence to go after a witness?? Thats faulty reasoning.

Armstrong's only public comments about the investigation (besides that he isn't losing sleep over it) was to deny that he had no ownership in Tailwind.
Which we here in The Clinic debunked within minutes and we released State documents showing that he indeed is a Director of Tailwind.
They will be the targets of this investigation.

 

[VeloCity]

I'll bet you a case of your favorite beer/ale that he's a target.

I'm not saying that he's not, and I wouldn't be surprised if he is. What I'm saying is that no one as yet can say for certain that he is. Yet there appear to be some here who are certain of it. That's jumping the gun a bit - we don't even know what Novitzky is after, let alone who he's after.

imo I don't think that Armstrong is "the" target, as was stated earlier. This investigation is way too big for it to be all about one bike rider.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I agree. But that doesn't mean that he's a target of the investigation necessarily. He could, in the end, be no different than Tyler or Floyd (except in stature, ie Armstrong being exposed would be much bigger news than Tyler or Floyd) - Armstrong could be just a means to an end.

Tell me which name of Tyler, Floyd or Lance appears on this document?

 

[Benotti69]

I'm not saying that he's not, and I wouldn't be surprised if he is. What I'm saying is that no one as yet can say for certain that he is. Yet there appear to be some here who are certain of it. That's jumping the gun a bit - we don't even know what Novitzky is after, let alone who he's after.

imo I don't think that Armstrong is "the" target, as was stated earlier. This investigation is way too big for it to be all about one bike rider.

Armstrong is/was a director of Tailwind sports therefore part owner of the team. Not just a rider. Everything went through Armstrong. He's a big chief in this, not the biggest chief, that's Weisel, but he is in the top 3.

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

Who is Terry Lee? Who is John Bucksbaum? What relation do they have to Lance or Weisel?