Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[MacRoadie]

ok, but wouldn't he have been going home to Aspen anyway?

Quite possibly, but that's really been rendered moot. The restaurant owner, Jodi Larner, is now on record as saying she called Armstrong to advise him that Hamilton was in there eating dinner. Tennesee, Texas, or Colorado: it doesn't really matter where he was earlier in the day.

At some point, prior to arriving at the restaurant, Armstrong became aware that Hamilton was there yet chose to go anyway.

Certainly, flying 1,200 miles JUST to go to Cache Cache to confront Hamilton makes for a more salacious story, but the meat of the story is that he knew Hamilton was there, knew Hamilton had testified before the GJ, knew what Hamilton had said to the GJ, yet still placed himself in a situation where confrontation went from the impossible to the quite possible.

 

[dbrower]

“Larner said she knew Armstrong would be coming into the restaurant that night and gave him a heads up that Hamilton was eating dinner on the patio with a group. As a restaurant owner in a small town, she said she extends the same courtesy to divorcees when one is coming in and the other is already there.”

I don't read that to necessarily say she'd called him. It reads consistently with he walked in and she let him know Hamilton was there with a group. Rather than Lance showing up anyway, it could be more that he didn't chose to leave well enough alone depart once informed. For the divorce situation, the etiquette would probably say the one who is sitting down first wins, and the other one exercises some tact, lest one have a social faux-pas.

This does make it clear that Hamilton's group was there first, and that Armstrong knew of the presence before interposing himself directly on the situation.

 

[dbrower]

Unfortunately not even the FBI can square the circle, trisect an angle, teleport, or reverse gravity. If the drive has been formatted or overwritten, I'm afraid the data's gone. There would be evidence left of the deletion, though.

Most people aren't smart or patient enough to do a full format or overwrite (which is what would be required), nor is it easy to answer questions why you would do such a thing unless you were trying to erase some tracks.

It is plausible for stuff to be overwritten by new things, but you still need to explain why you deleted stuff you don't normally delete.

For someone who wants stuff really deleted, a free knoppix cd or usb key invoking "dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda" has never been recovered as far as I know.

-dB

 

[Merckx index]

it doesn't really matter where he was earlier in the day.

Agreed. I can see LA telling himself, I’m not going to pass up on going to my favorite restaurant just because Tyler is there. I’m not going to give him that power over me, the ability to keep me from doing what I want to do. I would take the same attitude if I had returned to Aspen for unrelated reasons, and if I was accustomed to having dinner and seeing friends there on Saturday night.

But once he was there, he should have avoided contact with Tyler. Any sensible person should be able to see that, and I haven’t heard anyone deny the story that LA initiated contact. But there’s still a seeming discrepancy in the stories.

According to Tyler, he was coming out of the restroom, and LA stopped him with a raised arm. But according to Larner, LA was sitting with her at the bar and “never got up from his stool”. If Larner’s story is correct, and there seem to be other witnesses like DiLucia who support it, then LA might still have stopped Tyler with a raised arm. But for that to happen, Tyler would have to walk right past where LA was sitting. Within a couple of feet of him.

Did he not see LA sitting there? I rather doubt this. Was where LA was sitting right in the path from the restroom to the patio where he was returning to eat? If that was the case, why didn’t Tyler pass LA earlier, when he was on the way to the restroom?

The only easy way I can reconcile these stories is if LA was not at the bar when Tyler went to the restroom, meaning he probably hadn’t arrived yet at the restaurant. He arrived and went over to the bar while Tyler was in the restroom. Tyler comes out, and not having seen LA at the bar earlier, and not knowing he’s in town, starts to walk back to the patio. Only when he’s approaching LA does he see him there. At that point, it would be just as much if not more awkward to make an ostentatious detour as to go right past him, so he does the latter.

The problem with this scenario is that it seems too coincidental. If LA had arrived at the bar a few minutes earlier, Tyler would not have gone to the restroom yet, and arguably, if he had then gone, he would have known LA was at the bar. He might well have seen him come in. OTOH, if LA arrived at the bar a few minutes later, Tyler would have already left the restroom and returned to the patio.

 

[MacRoadie]

“Larner said she knew Armstrong would be coming into the restaurant that night and gave him a heads up that Hamilton was eating dinner on the patio with a group. As a restaurant owner in a small town, she said she extends the same courtesy to divorcees when one is coming in and the other is already there.”

I don't read that to necessarily say she'd called him. It reads consistently with he walked in and she let him know Hamilton was there with a group. Rather than Lance showing up anyway, it could be more that he didn't chose to leave well enough alone depart once informed. For the divorce situation, the etiquette would probably say the one who is sitting down first wins, and the other one exercises some tact, lest one have a social faux-pas.

This does make it clear that Hamilton's group was there first, and that Armstrong knew of the presence before interposing himself directly on the situation.

I will agree that it does not say she called him (although I'm pretty sure I got thatimpression in one of the online pieces), but it does suggest she appreciated the potential for an awkward situation.

 

[Oldman]

Quite possibly, but that's really been rendered moot. The restaurant owner, Jodi Larner, is now on record as saying she called Armstrong to advise him that Hamilton was in there eating dinner. Tennesee, Texas, or Colorado: it doesn't really matter where he was earlier in the day.

At some point, prior to arriving at the restaurant, Armstrong became aware that Hamilton was there yet chose to go anyway.

Certainly, flying 1,200 miles JUST to go to Cache Cache to confront Hamilton makes for a more salacious story, but the meat of the story is that he knew Hamilton was there, knew Hamilton had testified before the GJ, knew what Hamilton had said to the GJ, yet still placed himself in a situation where confrontation went from the impossible to the quite possible.

I'm not real big on the concept of witness intimidation for the casual "bump into" moment but this has all the feel of an stupidly orchestrated event. As much time as Lance must have spent with attorneys through all of his trevails, divorce, paternity issues, fraud trials; he knows this more than any of us. Either he is really, really stupid or he is stupider than that.

 

[Velodude]

“Larner said she knew Armstrong would be coming into the restaurant that night and gave him a heads up that Hamilton was eating dinner on the patio with a group. As a restaurant owner in a small town, she said she extends the same courtesy to divorcees when one is coming in and the other is already there.”

I don't read that to necessarily say she'd called him. It reads consistently with he walked in and she let him know Hamilton was there with a group. Rather than Lance showing up anyway, it could be more that he didn't chose to leave well enough alone depart once informed. For the divorce situation, the etiquette would probably say the one who is sitting down first wins, and the other one exercises some tact, lest one have a social faux-pas.

This does make it clear that Hamilton's group was there first, and that Armstrong knew of the presence before interposing himself directly on the situation.

My speculation.

This report in the Aspen daily rag is dated Wednesday.

By that time Ms. Larner had become aware just by cursory reference to internet overloads on the subject and possibly by legal advice that she could also be charged if she assisted LA in his alleged intimidation of TH.

She would also by then be aware that the Feds may check her phone, text, email contacts with LA, particularly as contact had been made on the surveillance tapes. She came "clean" to justify the contact on the lame excuse it is her policy to alert divorced parties to head off a scene and, presumably, she considered the LA/TH situation to be akin to an ugly divorce.

 

[VeloGirl]

Agreed. I can see LA telling himself, I’m not going to pass up on going to my favorite restaurant just because Tyler is there. I’m not going to give him that power over me, the ability to keep me from doing what I want to do. I would take the same attitude if I had returned to Aspen for unrelated reasons, and if I was accustomed to having dinner and seeing friends there on Saturday night.

But once he was there, he should have avoided contact with Tyler. Any sensible person should be able to see that, and I haven’t heard anyone deny the story that LA initiated contact. But there’s still a seeming discrepancy in the stories.

According to Tyler, he was coming out of the restroom, and LA stopped him with a raised arm. But according to Larner, LA was sitting with her at the bar and “never got up from his stool”. If Larner’s story is correct, and there seem to be other witnesses like DiLucia who support it, then LA might still have stopped Tyler with a raised arm. But for that to happen, Tyler would have to walk right past where LA was sitting. Within a couple of feet of him.

Did he not see LA sitting there? I rather doubt this. Was where LA was sitting right in the path from the restroom to the patio where he was returning to eat? If that was the case, why didn’t Tyler pass LA earlier, when he was on the way to the restroom?

The only easy way I can reconcile these stories is if LA was not at the bar when Tyler went to the restroom, meaning he probably hadn’t arrived yet at the restaurant. He arrived and went over to the bar while Tyler was in the restroom. Tyler comes out, and not having seen LA at the bar earlier, and not knowing he’s in town, starts to walk back to the patio. Only when he’s approaching LA does he see him there. At that point, it would be just as much if not more awkward to make an ostentatious detour as to go right past him, so he does the latter.

The problem with this scenario is that it seems too coincidental. If LA had arrived at the bar a few minutes earlier, Tyler would not have gone to the restroom yet, and arguably, if he had then gone, he would have known LA was at the bar. He might well have seen him come in. OTOH, if LA arrived at the bar a few minutes later, Tyler would have already left the restroom and returned to the patio.

According to a story I saw linked in Twitter, the hallway to the bathrooms and the bar area are right next to each other. The bar area is very small and usually packed with people. If I find that article, I will post it here.

And check out the latest review on trip advisor! LOL

 

[Berzin]

I haven’t heard anyone deny the story that LA initiated contact. But there’s still a seeming discrepancy in the stories.

This is to be expected, especially when the restaurant owner is clearly lying, may be involved in the destruction of video evidence and is a friend of Armstrong.

She stated there was no heated exchange between Hamilton and Armstrong, yet never mentions what was said between the two parties-a classic lying technique to cast a shadow over a conversation she either didn't hear or is attempting to cover up.

 

[dbrower]

@aspenspin coverage: http://bit.ly/ijpWWO Nothing new, and no comments yet.

Heat as observed isn't very reliable indicator without an actual recounting. Look up the Michael Caine interview on fresh air, where he relates the the scariest guys are the quietest, and can say the most innocous things. Then he says, quietly, "I like you. You're smart. I'd hate to see anything happen to you" in a way that will drop your body temperature instantly.

-dB

 

[Cimacoppi49]

It matters greatly where Armstrong was if he changed plans and returned to earlier than planned. They the question of why comes into play.

 

[bobs nob]

http://www.aspendailynews.com/section/home/147445

“Larner said she knew Armstrong would be coming into the restaurant that night and gave him a heads up that Hamilton was eating dinner on the patio with a group. As a restaurant owner in a small town, she said she extends the same courtesy to divorcees when one is coming in and the other is already there.”

And now we know where to send the award.....


...and the winner of today's recently re-titled

"Oh my God I can't believe I really am this *** edited by mod *** man so wrapped up in his dainty ways he would stoop to such a catty level Award goes to ........"

whichever one of these panty waists arrived at the restaurant last. Because to me at least, it seems that arrivee 2 was tipped off to the presence of party 1 by some equally lame bottom feeder (who now also deserves her own award, which could be stainless steel bracelets with matching chain and key) and came down looking to start some sh!t.

Couple of middle aged *** edited by mod *** men who are rather, mannered, appear cultured (despite the truth) silver haired gorillas thumping their chests in a very unmanly fashion. How very weak.

Sorry Susan if the original award was offensive. None was intended. A person's lifestyle is their own business. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I will try and be more mindful. The new award will no longer be a carnation in a cheap Chardonnay bottle but instead an orchid in an actual empty bottle of 1961 Château Latour Grand Vin.
__________________
....The hapless Texan then proceeded to have yet another crash in the neutral zone....
Last edited by Susan Westemeyer; 06-14-11 at 19:48. Reason: STOP IT with the homosexuality implications

 

[mewmewmew13]

From what I see, ms larner is not to be believed, had no interest in anything other than protecting and covering for 'her friend', and maybe very slowly now is coming to see that she has made some bad choices...

 

[Oldman]

From what I see, ms larner is not to be believed, had no interest in anything other than protecting and covering for 'her friend', and maybe very slowly now is coming to see that she has made some bad choices...

By "her friend" I think you mean another big spending celebrity. I'm not from Aspen but if the working locals are part of the circle of friends for her business it would be surprising. Same thing goes on in Ketchum (Weisel's got an embarrassing spread there), Jackson, Whistler...money talks to restaurant owners.

 

[Stevie039]

The only easy way I can reconcile these stories is if LA was not at the bar when Tyler went to the restroom, meaning he probably hadn’t arrived yet at the restaurant. He arrived and went over to the bar while Tyler was in the restroom.

LA was lurking somewhere in the restaurant, watching and waiting... When he saw an opportunity to position himself in TH's path he took it.

 

[mewmewmew13]

By "her friend" I think you mean another big spending celebrity. I'm not from Aspen but if the working locals are part of the circle of friends for her business it would be surprising. Same thing goes on in Ketchum (Weisel's got an embarrassing spread there), Jackson, Whistler...money talks to restaurant owners.

exactly.
she may like to think she is part of his social circle and considered 'a 'friend' but most would agree that Lance doesn't really have 'friends'

by banning Tyler she must have thought how pleased that would make Lance

 

[jraama]

My guess is that TH didn't see LA when he went to the bathroom, assuming LA was there at the time, which I think he was. I don't generally look at every person I pass as I go to the bathroom in a restaurant. But either LA saw him go in, or was told he walked by, and made sure to watch out for his return. TH may not even have seen LA on his way back, but an arm in his path made him look over. It may be a chance encounter, but LA should have known better than to deliberately stop TH and "have a word". I suspect that LA decided to offer an impromptu warning to TH of what to expect going forward.

 

[MarkvW]

LA was lurking somewhere in the restaurant, watching and waiting... When he saw an opportunity to position himself in TH's path he took it.

Like a fox stalking a rabbit.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Like a fox stalking a rabbit.

It might turn out more like the coyote stalking the road runner.

 

[jackwolf]

thehog did a good job to get you started. just google 'hard drive forensic software' and you will find what the general public has access to.

Well, yeah, that sort of matches what I said. Deleted doesn't mean deleted for good. Formatted does mean deleted for good. You seemed to imply you people could recover data from a formatted hard drive.

 

[epo1999]

Gotta remember that even if the place is LA's favorite restaurant, he was in another state doing a ride that day. Who could be expected to assume he would be at the place that evening? Also, no one has asked, who set up the reservation for TH's group? My guess is that it was someone from Outside and he went along... No matter, LA should have left him the f alone.

 

[jackwolf]

Well, anyway, that's enough speculation for today. Here's a first-hand account of what really happened:

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blog/blazin-saddles/article/2010/

 

[Ferminal]

Well, yeah, that sort of matches what I said. Deleted doesn't mean deleted for good. Formatted does mean deleted for good. You seemed to imply you people could recover data from a formatted hard drive.

From a mechanical drive you can try (but not necessarily succeed), depending on the level of formatting. The only way to be completely safe is physical destruction of the drive itself or putting it through loops of writing/formatting.

 

[Benotti69]

From a mechanical drive you can try (but not necessarily succeed), depending on the level of formatting. The only way to be completely safe is physical destruction of the drive itself or putting it through loops of writing/formatting.

which lets be honest the FBI are gonna be very well equipped to do. They must be doing it everyday to recover files and information from computers to incriminate people.

 

[thehog]

The owner's explanation sounds fishy. Did Lance have a reservation for that night? What are the chances of that? Does she call people when they do not have reservations to warn them that their ex-spouses are in the restaurant?

The conversation is described as lasting five minutes. That is a long time. It is a lot longer than the two bumping into each other and exchanging a few awkward words.

To tie up a few anomalies in the story.

Tyler was on the patio when dining. The group he was with were almost finished their meals and had ordered dessert. Hamilton went to the bathroom and his path did not pass through the bar. At this time Armstrong was siting in the bar. Hamilton upon completing in the bathroom saw a friend in the bar area. Not knowing Armstrong was there Hamilton took a different path and by not returning to the patio area entered the bar area to greet the friend who had now waved to him. As he approached the friend a hand forcibly came across his chest and stopped his path. Armstrong then began the tirade to which Tyler first reaction was to say "sorry" meaning he didn't want things to end like this. Armstrong went on in full view of his drinking party and the friend of Tyler. Tyler requested that this be taken outside as the situation was getting heated and Lance should calm down. Armstrong continued mainly with the line "I'll tear you apart, my legal team is extensive, large and will make a mockery of you". Eventually Tyler extracted himself from the conversation turned around left the bar and went back out to the patio. Hamilton and his party were then asked to finish their dessert and leave. The group was upset with the bill and the treatment and thought not to leave a tip. As they left they were chased down and one of the group wanting to diffuse the situation left a nominal tip.