Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[thirteen]

The bar area was "upgraded" and built in 2009 with some local investment. You'd think of going to all trouble of building an entire bar area (they bought the land to expand into) they'd install functioning cameras. At least the investors would ask for them to be working because they invested in the property.

btw the yellow menu's look good... yes yellow menus.

i do like you, hog, but get a life.

Aspen is almost entirely about skiing, not cycling.

the fact that i've found Aspen more about appearance than the actual sport is irrelevant (but why i never chose to go unless it was on somebody else's dime). truly, though, the life-blood of any of these towns is the traffic during ski season.

getting more people to come in "off" season is desirable, but not the be-all-end-all. and, trust me, cycling is not the draw.

as for functioning cameras, lol! why?

i know a lot of restaurant owners (in chichi neighborhoods) and people who have invested in them as well. they could give a $hit about cameras. they want the place to be popular, talked about, and make beaucoup bucks. period.

cameras? pffffffft!

 

[theswordsman]

Part of running a successful business is controlling costs. Security cameras can reduce insurance premiums, as they can be used to recover stolen goods and to avoid, say, negligence lawsuits for a fall or whatever. People claim the restaurant did something wrong, so they bring out the tape. I can't imagine an owner thinking their place is too posh to need them, especially if they have really expensive liquor and wine selections.

 

[D-Queued]

Let's say it wasn't premeditated. Let's say he found out around the time he walked in. At that point, he chose not to go elsewhere, and later he chose not to ignore TH when he was nearby. Let's say he had no plan, and when TH came by, he internal anger led him to say things that made no sense for him to say, and which cause his attorneys to cringe, and may lead to charges.

So maybe he isn't that stupid, but is not that bright, and is prone to emotional reaction in a situation that could have been avoided if he'd been smarter about it going in.

I'm finding it hard to find fault with Hamilton by any non-conspiratorial scenario.

-dB

On that note, here is my thought on one possible scenario:

1. The FBI/DOJ/et al will file a bunch of charges against one or more defendents, likely including one or more related to this incident.

2. The judge will presumably (be asked to) split the charges into two or more groups, and the first set will go to trial. The remaining charges will be eligible for pursuit in separate trial(s).

My guess, if the above scenario plays out, is that charges related to this incident will be among those that will not be in the first group.

Dave.

 

[ChrisE]

On that note, here is my thought on one possible scenario:

1. The FBI/DOJ/et al will file a bunch of charges against one or more defendents, likely including one or more related to this incident.

2. The judge will presumably (be asked to) split the charges into two or more groups, and the first set will go to trial. The remaining charges will be eligible for pursuit in separate trial(s).

My guess, if the above scenario plays out, is that charges related to this incident will be among those that will not be in the first group.

Dave.

Of course, if LA did as alleged then the tampering must be part of the larger set of main charges.

 

[thehog]

Part of running a successful business is controlling costs. Security cameras can reduce insurance premiums, as they can be used to recover stolen goods and to avoid, say, negligence lawsuits for a fall or whatever. People claim the restaurant did something wrong, so they bring out the tape. I can't imagine an owner thinking their place is too posh to need them, especially if they have really expensive liquor and wine selections.

Thank-you. They also assist in the responsible serving of alcohol situations. All bars have them. Its amazing the number of times a drunk will blame the bar for getting them in that state before they attempted to drive home, screw someone else other than their wife or beat the krap out of a passerby.

My point being was that Ms. Larner said the cameras in the dining area were not functional. No one mentioned the bar area - as this is where the altercation occurred.

Secondary to this is the "friend" Hamilton saw in the bar on the way back from the toilet who diverted his trip back to the patio area. What did she see/hear?

 

[Anonymous]

So let me get this straight. LA rides a 100-mile fundraiser in Franklin, TN. Flies back to Aspen the same day just to hunt down TH at a favourite restaurant of his? A reporter and editors from Outside at a eatery next door. Do you think they might have had a view of the patio. How could Armstrong "keep the home field advantage?" LA must be some kind of evil wizard if he had the power to force TH and crew (spell bound) to his turf.

The truth is TH and his friends from Outside look to be the ones seeking out Armstrong in this case. Outside reporter Abe Streep never mentions if he was "working" during this foray into Armstrong country. I worked almost 20 years as a journalist. I find it hard to believe the Streep and Outside where not their for a reason. We will see if Outside gets a cover story out of this one.

One of the reasons I left the trade is that too many, but not all, reporters and some editors where approuching stories as already written and seeking quotes and events that already fit their narrative. Journalist do poke around. They have to. I will always look on this one though as suspicious. I doubt they didn't know that the Cache Cache was not a LA hang out. Reporters live and die by tips and information that lead to a story. There is nothing wrong with this, unless your using information to create a story. I doubt we will ever know the full part Outside and Streep played in this affair. Where they looking to place TH in the way of LA?

None of us where there. The exact events reported should not be taken as fact until something more concrete comes up.

Maybe you just sucked? I mean, if you are the type of a reporter to ridicule one unverified version of events and then proffer another unverified version of events you pulled out of your a$$, I would suggest you are the thing you criticize.

 

[patricknd]

the sad thing is this whole sordid episode could have been avoided had they changed the name to Fat City per the good Dr. T's campaign all those years ago.

 

[MacRoadie]

So let me get this straight. LA rides a 100-mile fundraiser in Franklin, TN. Flies back to Aspen the same day just to hunt down TH at a favourite restaurant of his? A reporter and editors from Outside (are/were/?) at a (an) eatery next door. Do you think they might have had a view of the patio (?). How could Armstrong "keep the home field advantage?" LA must be some kind of evil wizard if he had the power to force TH and crew (spell bound) to his turf.

The truth is TH and his friends from Outside look to be the ones seeking out Armstrong in this case. Outside reporter Abe Streep never mentions if he was "working" during this foray into Armstrong country. I worked almost 20 years as a journalist. I find it hard to believe the (that) Streep and Outside where not their (there) for a reason. We will see if Outside gets a cover story out of this one.

One of the reasons I left the trade is that too many, but not all, reporters and some editors where (were) approuching (approaching) stories as already written and seeking quotes and events that already fit their narrative. Journalist(s) do poke around. They have to. I will always look on this one though as suspicious. I doubt they didn't know that the Cache Cache was not a LA hang out (double negative - didn't/not). Reporters live and die by tips and information that lead to a story. There is nothing wrong with this, unless your (you're) using information to create a story. I doubt we will ever know the full part Outside and Streep played in this affair. Where (were) they looking to place TH in the way of LA?

None of us where (were) there. The exact events reported should not be taken as fact until something more concrete comes up.

There, fixed that for you. Twenty years as a journalist, right?

 

[D-Queued]

There, fixed that for you. Twenty years as a journalist, right?

There you go. Getting all literal again.

Maybe that experience included stints as cub reporter for elementary school announcements, the 4H club newsletter, along with a little rounding up on the number of years.

Dave.

 

[thirteen]

Thank-you. They also assist in the responsible serving of alcohol situations. All bars have them. Its amazing the number of times a drunk will blame the bar for getting them in that state before they attempted to drive home, screw someone else other than their wife or beat the krap out of a passerby.

My point being was that Ms. Larner said the cameras in the dining area were not functional. No one mentioned the bar area - as this is where the altercation occurred.

Secondary to this is the "friend" Hamilton saw in the bar on the way back from the toilet who diverted his trip back to the patio area. What did she see/hear?

bars are completely different from restaurants...

i, too, am wondering if there was a camera in the bar area -- something not mentioned or alluded to in any article thus far.

and, yes, why have we not heard from Hamilton's friend? has she been advised to stay silent? and, if so, by whom?

 

[thehog]

bars are completely different from restaurants...

i, too, am wondering if there was a camera in the bar area -- something not mentioned or alluded to in any article thus far.

and, yes, why have we not heard from Hamilton's friend? has she been advised to stay silent? and, if so, by whom?

The virtual view on the website shows a camera on the roof in the bar. But right you are there's been no mention of it.

And no mention of the friend. Although I'm sure she's given her account of the events.

Armstrong's gang has been very quiet on this one since the incident.

 

[mewmewmew13]

The virtual view on the website shows a camera on the roof in the bar. But right you are there's been no mention of it.

And no mention of the friend. Although I'm sure she's given her account of the events.

Armstrong's gang has been very quiet on this one since the incident.

don't you think the authorities have scooped up all the evidence they needed as of shortly following the incident? They probably have sworn statements by several people , the place is not that big, and may even have some actual vid. We on the clinic would never know half of what is going or went down, and all involved would be advised to clam up.

I do think that Jodi Larner messed her own bed...

 

[python]

<snip>
I do think that Jodi Larner messed her own bed...

she made two huge 'favours' to her celebrity friend (both confirmed by several sources) that her friend is likely to regret. she confirmed tyler's account that texas stopped him (whilst the legally wise thing was to ignore tyler walking by ) and she admitted texas was warned by her as to tyler's presence.

the woman is not the brightest.

 

[thirteen]

she made two huge 'favours' to her celebrity friend (both confirmed by several sources) that her is likely to regret. she confirmed tyler's account that texas stopped him (whilst the legally wise thing was to ignore tyler walking by ) and she admitted texas was warned by her as to tyler's presence.

the woman is not the brightest.

likely to regret what? that she told the truth???

not very nice considering your avatar... just saying

 

[python]

likely to regret what? that she told the truth???

not very nice considering your avatar... just saying

no. she sure has to say the truth to the authorities.


she does not have to blab to the media about what she has been asked to talk about by the fbi. several of her accounts are contaradictory. my avatar hasn't made those mistakes.

 

[Stingray34]

Maybe you just sucked? I mean, if you are the type of a reporter to ridicule one unverified version of events and then proffer another unverified version of events you pulled out of your a$$, I would suggest you are the thing you criticize.

That's pretty sharp, kudos.

 

[mewmewmew13]

likely to regret what? that she told the truth???

not very nice considering your avatar... just saying

I think python was saying that she is probably regretting having done those 'favours'...not the 'telling the truth' part.

Some folks just get goofy over trying to please celebrity 'friends' and don't think before they use poor judgement.

 

[Velodude]

And it is possible LA was not an owner in 2002. That is your opinion, which may turn out to be true. I have no opinion, I will wait for the facts. Of course hopefully we will eventually see..

David Walsh, the UK investigative journalist who penned three books on LA, wrote after the Floyd Landis emails were published:

"For three years, 2002-04, he (Floyd Landis) rode for US Postal, the team owned by Tailwind Sports, which was then 50% owned by Armstrong."

As BillytheKid, drawing on his 20 year journalistic background, will confirm a investigative journalist will attempt to confirm all facts before publication.

What would he have gained by confronting TH? Nothing. What would he have "pushed" TH over on? 60 minutes was in the past, his GJ testimony was in the past. If TH changes what he said to the GJ during a potential trial due to LA pressure, TH would go to jail.

Maybe he is that stupid. It just boggles my mind if he is. It is a new day, and what he did during SCA was a different game. We all may push the envelope until the stakes get too high. I wouldn't drive as fast as I do if speeding tickets were $10000.

In the SCA case it was reported (Dallas News):

"Several witnesses described a world not unlike the corrupt union shop in the movie classic On the Waterfront, where Mr. Armstrong can make sure "canaries" never work in cycling again."

That ship has sailed for Armstrong's influence in dealing with the Feds and their widespread investigative powers and agenda.

Armstrong's alleged conduct with TH in Aspen was the venting of frustration of loss of control and an acknowledgment through this "death throe" all appears lost in this battle.

 

[D-Queued]

...

I do think that Jodi Larner messed her own bed...

Next news flash:

Fabiani will be asking Jodi Larner for an official apology.

Dave.

 

[python]

I think python was saying that she is probably regretting having done those 'favours'...not the 'telling the truth' part.

Some folks just get goofy over trying to please celebrity 'friends' and don't think before they use poor judgement.

exactly !

but i think, looking at the quote of my incomplete post (being still typed at the time she quoted me), i could understand how13 thought at that moment.

'her is likely to regret' (as quoted by 13) was actually typed by me as 'her friend is likely to regret'. the edit bot allowed me to correct myself before the 'edited by' flag kicked in but not before 13 quoted me.

whatever, i think we're on the same page now.

 

[bobs nob]

Well, anyway, that's enough speculation for today. Here's a first-hand account of what really happened:

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blog/blazin-saddles/article/2010/

Hilarious:
Lance then ordered himself his favourite dish: slow-cooked wild boar left to simmer in its own juices.

Returning from the loo, Tyler asked Lance what he had ordered. On hearing the description of the dish, Hamilton asked his old team-mate what Saddles deemed as quite a legitimate question: "How long is it cooked for?"

"60 minutes," came the reply.
=================================

I have been to places that aspire to be as shallow, phony and vain as what Aspen is reputed to be, but I hope I never suffer the misfortune of being sentenced to suffering through any time in this blowhard's paradise. Aspen seems to be created for guys like Lance. Wild Boar indeed.

Anyone read Bonfire of the Vanities?

 

[jackwolf]

There, fixed that for you. Twenty years as a journalist, right?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha... Very good.

 

[bobs nob]

So let me get this straight. LA rides a 100-mile fundraiser in Franklin, TN. Flies back to Aspen the same day just to hunt down TH at a favourite restaurant of his? A reporter and editors from Outside at a eatery next door. Do you think they might have had a view of the patio. How could Armstrong "keep the home field advantage?" LA must be some kind of evil wizard if he had the power to force TH and crew (spell bound) to his turf.

The truth is TH and his friends from Outside look to be the ones seeking out Armstrong in this case. Outside reporter Abe Streep never mentions if he was "working" during this foray into Armstrong country. I worked almost 20 years as a journalist. I find it hard to believe the Streep and Outside where not their for a reason. We will see if Outside gets a cover story out of this one.

One of the reasons I left the trade is that too many, but not all, reporters and some editors where approuching stories as already written and seeking quotes and events that already fit their narrative. Journalist do poke around. They have to. I will always look on this one though as suspicious. I doubt they didn't know that the Cache Cache was not a LA hang out. Reporters live and die by tips and information that lead to a story. There is nothing wrong with this, unless your using information to create a story. I doubt we will ever know the full part Outside and Streep played in this affair. Where they looking to place TH in the way of LA?

None of us where there. The exact events reported should not be taken as fact until something more concrete comes up.

Gud hevinz, our you shore you didnt leaf the trayed for you're righting and prove reeding? And these after a edited.

 

[MarkvW]

Armstrong's alleged conduct with TH in Aspen was the venting of frustration of loss of control and an acknowledgment through this "death throe" all appears lost in this battle.

"All appears lost?" Maybe a little hyperbolic.

I can't infer more than an emotionally stunted control freak lashing out when he loses a degree of control.

 

[mewmewmew13]

yes, Bonfire of the Vanities a great read.

I live in Co...used to go to Aspen a lot in the late 70s..a way different feel before the money and pseudo-celebrities and glamourous peacocks.
Sad for the locals that were forced out due to the high cost of living , and yes , the town now fits Lance to a 't'.
There are still normal folks and a low key side, but sadly they are not the political and power juggernaut that shapes the future there anymore.