Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[Velodude]

Semantics, shemantics - whatever you want to call it.

The point is Armstrong bought his "insurance" AFTER the incident -thats not protection, thats a pay off.

+1

If you believe the dubious McQuaid it was paid 11 months after the TdS in May 2002 by personal check/cheque of $25,000 signed by L&K Armstrong. (International money transfer to Switzerland by US dollar cheque?)

More credibility should be given to Verbruggen mouth off that Armstrong paid all his "donations" by cash from his personal funds (in unmarked, used and non sequential notes).

 

[Berzin]

Semantics, shemantics - whatever you want to call it.

The point is Armstrong bought his "insurance" AFTER the incident -thats not protection, thats a pay off.

After the payoff, he was protected absolutely going forward. It amounts to the same thing-the pay off cemented what was probably a tacit agreement that already existed ever since the "Tour of Redemption".

And after the payoff, no one of consequence on US Postal/Discovery ever tested positive until they decided to ride for another team.

Once the blanket was pulled, no more protection.

In 1999, as was mentioned in an earlier post, the Tour could not possibly risk another positive involving the yellow jersey, especially with a rider like Armstrong, who came into the race with such an incredible back story.

Remember too that Armstrong has some financial involvement in a real estate deal with Verbruggen in Switzerland, which developed after the backdated prescription was allowed.

What came first-the protection or the bribe money? It doesn't matter now, does it?

 

[Cobblestoned]

Talk about revisionist history:

Ullrich avoids injury after crash





Hardly a "deep cut and nearly cutting his head off"...

Ullrich at the 2005 Tour:

Mr. Blofeld, it looks utterly stupid to point out irony.
That's the irony of life, isn't it ?
Of course we all know that Mr. Blofeld is used to it.

All parts of the brain have to cooperate properly to see and understand.

Anyway, you are now trying to sell us that the crash didn't influence Jan and his performance ?
Of course you do, otherwise you would have reminded/corrected thehog, like I did. My main point stands. The point. Of course I know that you guys never doubt each other. Before that happens, hell freezes first.
What would that look like, really ? It's ok.

Glad you found that pic of smiling Jan. He is such a friendly and professional person.
That pic would have been everyones first choice, when it comes to this issue.
No broken glass, no blood or cuts, no scar, no blue and black spots....no.....the smiling Jan would be first choice.
The Jan smiling professionally. Happiest man on earth. Later beeing caught by Lance, and underperforming in a TT. Everything ok.
"Haha, look, i crashed into my teamcar yesterday, right before the TdF. A better timing, TT in mind, a better timing is not possible. Top shape, and I even feel better than before the crash."
Dr. Heinrich totally optimistic and cool like always.

btw, before I get lost in my own irony and sarcasm, what's your point, Blofeld ?

 

[Cobblestoned]

Unfortunately it’s not as simplistic as you describe.

2005 was an interesting year. The lead up from the 2004 victory to the Tour was “unusual”. Discovery has taken over the sponsorship and Armstrong had to ride at least one of two Tours in the 2 year contract. He talked about skipping Tour 2005 in late 2004. But this stage he was dating Sheryl Crow and was on the celebrity circuit. He also talked of doing other races outside the Tour and potentially skipping 2005 Tour and perhaps riding it in 2006. Come January at Paris-Nice 2005 Armstrong rolled up looking rather rotund but it was January and you’d rarely see him race before late March. His opening prologue was woeful. Terrible in fact. For a guy who was the best time trialer in the world you’d expect more. Finished 109th. Well off the pace. Armstrong dropped out of the race. And was later to be seen attending the Grammy’s and other such events with Crow. A lot of press guys were secretly writing him off but no one wanted to bet against him publicly. He road Tour of Flanders in 2005 and the race was famous for Quick Step telling him to get off of the front for slowing the chase!

Before the Tour started in 2005 Armstrong was called for a “random” drug test. Armstrong was chaperoned by the testers to the testing center. Instead of going behind the barriers Armstrong requested they take him past the media contingent – he said he wanted to show he had nothing to hide – some called this a set up – it looked staged. At the same time Verbruggen release the information about Armstrong donating the Sysmex machine. Saying that Armstrong wouldn’t really want anyone to know because he is a humble guy but he really believes in “anti-doping”.

Come the prologue and Armstrong despite pulling his foot out of his pedal down the start ramp blew everyone away including catching Ullrich for one minute. Ullrich was carrying injuries from his crash but being caught for one minute in 19km?!!

The press gallery who had him secretly written off all year were a gasp. How did he do this when he was so clearly underprepared and overweight early in the year? Maybe he is a great champion. Or was something else at play?

A few stages later Vino start to attack the field and Armstrong was left isolated by his team but only lost time to Kloden. 3 days later Popo. Il Falco and Armstrong obliterated the field on the first real mountain stage. The press knew what was at play on this day. They remembered 1999. It was the same story. Do they write about it. No. we kept up appearances. We had to. Some of us connected the dots on the events before the prologue. We knew what was at play. But this was Armstrong’s swansong. We hoped this was the end of large scale team doping. It wasn’t to be.

Uhuuum, uhuuum, yeah. Excellent post. Excellent song. Excellent stuff. Perhaps I will try it too.
Whatever, Trevor.

Ullrich crashed and underperformed. Did you ever have a look at the results and details ?
Honestly ?

If you want another try some day, start with 2004 next time.
Better suited for indication of a possible superiority. Just stating that Lance overtook Jan in 2005, and that Vino got dropped on some long mountain (wow!), is not gut. Not clever. It's nothing. But part of your job. I know. Never let the truth and facts get in your way. Sing your own song.

Anyway, most of the time, Lance beat the Telekomiker with help of his brain and intention. Very useful in stressful situations, like when they tried kidding the Boss with some random but nonsense triple-attacks.

 

[MacRoadie]

btw, before I get lost in my own irony and sarcasm, what's your point, Blofeld ?

That you are a moron and a liar? That you make ridiculous statements like "deep cuts" and "nearly cut his head off" when the injuries were barely a scratch (and one that had healed to the point of invisibility when this photo was taken.

Are those points clear enough to you? No irony, no sarcasm, straight to the point.

Edit: On second thought, I'll make it clearer to you. The Hog stated that:

Ullrich being passed by Armstrong in a TT along with Ullrich and Vino going backwards in the opening mountain stage.

Which you took exception to, trying first to blame Ullrich's performance on his crash. Then trying to sarcastically undermine Hog's point by suggesting (facetiously), that Armstrong had somehow orchestrated the crash.

The problem is, the crash looked far worse than it was. The rear window broke and the car got the worst of it. Ullrich even said as much. For you little fantasy to work, Ullrich needs to be on death's door.

Without the crash, we're back to a doped to the gills Armstrong eating up over a minute on a perfectly fine and fit Ullrich.

Make sense now?

 

[Polish]

That you are an idiot and a liar? That you make ridiculous statements like "deep cuts" and "nearly cut his head off" when the injuries were barely a scratch (and one that had healed to the point of invisibility when this photo was taken.

Are those points clear enough to you? No irony, no sarcasm, straight to the point.

Actually, the pictures from that crash were horrific.
Window bashed in and very bloody Jan.
Face cuts bleed a lot though. But Jan was lucky.

A "Blanket of Protection" would have cushioned the blow you know.
And it would have kept Jan warm on the Galibier as well. Kept him motivated to train during the cold winter months too.

But alas, only Lance had the blanket. Exclusive Blankie.
Curse you Lance, curse you.

And Lance kicked Jan's **** the following day in the ITT.
Curse you again. And again.

 

[Cobblestoned]

That you are an idiot and a liar? That you make ridiculous statements like "deep cuts" and "nearly cut his head off" when the injuries were barely a scratch (and one that had healed to the point of invisibility when this photo was taken.

Are those points clear enough to you? No irony, no sarcasm, straight to the point.

Stay cool. Like me. Like 007.
You failed. You were just at the wrong place at the wrong time again. Can happen to anyone.
And right now you even make it worse, Blofeld.
Have much fun discussing something that is not even close to the point been made. Discussing with yourself. But like always, when you think that you might have a chance for.....whatever, I have to say, ju niet skill först.

And a point. That's essential, Blofeld.
I'll go now. Some bondgirl is waiting for me.
Look ! Behind you !

 

[Cobblestoned]

Actually, the pictures from that crash were horrific.
Window bashed in and very bloody Jan.
Face cuts bleed a lot though. But Jan was lucky.

A "Blanket of Protection" would have cushioned the blow you know.
And it would have kept Jan warm on the Galibier as well. Kept him motivated to train during the cold winter months too.

But alas, only Lance had the blanket. Exclusive Blankie.
Curse you Lance, curse you.

And Lance kicked Jan's **** the following day in the ITT.
Curse you again. And again.

Yeah, agree.
Great post. +1000
The holy duell. Always fair duell. Full of respect and other things. Handshakes and love everywhere.
Glad that Jan survived that and could start in even better shape.
btw, Blofeld is so deep in red karma zone, he even changed his avatar in a hurry. lol

PS: You also have to include that better-responding into the blankie blanket. Not to forget hookers and blow for free.

 

[MacRoadie]

Actually, the pictures from that crash were horrific.
Window bashed in and very bloody Jan.
Face cuts bleed a lot though. But Jan was lucky.

Funny, I can't find a single news source that refers to the crash as anything but "minor".

Here is Ullrich a couple of days after the crash, with the aforementioned partially severed carotid artery. The rest seems to have healed miraculously.

 

[MacRoadie]

Yeabtw, Blofeld is so deep in red karma zone, he even changed his avatar in a hurry. lol.

I changed it back to a picture of me. Your turn.

 

[Polish]

Funny, I can't find a single news source that refers to the crash as anything but "minor".

Here is Ullrich a couple of days after the crash, with the aforementioned partially severed carotid artery. The rest seems to have healed miraculously.

Only a partially severed carotid artery. Geez, I thought it was completely severed. Never mind then....

But the reason it was "minor" is because JAN IS TOUGH.
Not a Drama Queen. No waawaa from Jan.
The smashed Team Car did not start the Tour btw....
Wussy car. Had blanket insurance though. Covered. Good Hands.

 

[thehog]

That you are a moron and a liar? That you make ridiculous statements like "deep cuts" and "nearly cut his head off" when the injuries were barely a scratch (and one that had healed to the point of invisibility when this photo was taken.

Are those points clear enough to you? No irony, no sarcasm, straight to the point.

Edit: On second thought, I'll make it clearer to you. The Hog stated that:



Which you took exception to, trying first to blame Ullrich's performance on his crash. Then trying to sarcastically undermine Hog's point by suggesting (facetiously), that Armstrong had somehow orchestrated the crash.

The problem is, the crash looked far worse than it was. The rear window broke and the car got the worst of it. Ullrich even said as much. For you little fantasy to work, Ullrich needs to be on death's door.

Without the crash, we're back to a doped to the gills Armstrong eating up over a minute on a perfectly fine and fit Ullrich.

Make sense now?

Thank-you. So crazy was Armstrong he actually passed Ullrich with 3km to go!

This was only a few short weeks after a "ho hum" effort at the Tour de Georgia.

Of course the walk of hope for doping control & the Sysmex story quelled the doubters

Basically Armstrong smashed the entire field by over a minute in 19km. Not even Vino could get close.

The results speak for themselves.

As per the commentary:
The big names this Tour, though, were expected to be Ivan Basso, Jan Ullrich, and, of course, Lance Armstrong – the final three starters. Basso performed respectably, coming in 18th, 1:53 back from Zabriskie – a perfectly respectable showing for someone who is not known as a time trialist. Ullrich also did well in 12th place, 1:12 back, especially considering that the day before he got into a gruesome crash with his team car in which he shattered the rear window as he flew through it. The real story, though, was Lance Armstrong, whose time trialing skills this year had been in doubt after a poor showing in the Tour de Georgia. After a small mishap where his foot fell out of the pedal at the start, he rode an incredible time trial, bridging the one-minute gap to Jan Ullrich with 3*km remaining. He finished two seconds behind Zabriskie, sending a clear message to anyone who thought he might be off form this year.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Jan...always looks good.

A Real Pro. Gracious.
No sneer like someone else ..

 

[Cobblestoned]

That you are a moron and a liar? That you make ridiculous statements like "deep cuts" and "nearly cut his head off" when the injuries were barely a scratch (and one that had healed to the point of invisibility when this photo was taken.

Are those points clear enough to you? No irony, no sarcasm, straight to the point.

Edit: On second thought, I'll make it clearer to you. The Hog stated that:



Which you took exception to, trying first to blame Ullrich's performance on his crash. Then trying to sarcastically undermine Hog's point by suggesting (facetiously), that Armstrong had somehow orchestrated the crash.

The problem is, the crash looked far worse than it was. The rear window broke and the car got the worst of it. Ullrich even said as much. For you little fantasy to work, Ullrich needs to be on death's door.

Without the crash, we're back to a doped to the gills Armstrong eating up over a minute on a perfectly fine and fit Ullrich.

Make sense now?

Sense ? No.
But had a good laugh. But more about my prediction skills, when it comes to predicting yours and others opinions. Perfectly fine and fit.
Don't hold yourselfs back. Face it. Ullrich felt even better after the crash.
And if Lance didn't have that clip-issue, it would have been even 3 minutes.


You guys of the brotherhood on mission, you have really sworn something like an oath.....and perhaps did even more.

The Pipi Langstrumpf approach. Painting the world how you like it. But somehow entertaining and.....just sweet.

 

[ChrisE]

Jan...always looks good.

A Real Pro. Gracious.
No sneer like someone else ..

Look how good he looks here while getting dropped like feces from a tall cow's rear end on AdH.

 

[ChrisE]

Semantics, shemantics - whatever you want to call it.

The point is Armstrong bought his "insurance" AFTER the incident -thats not protection, thats a pay off.

Glad you are setting these outliers straight in the clinic that think LA had special protection and the poor competition was on there own. Take care of Velodude while you are at it.

 

[ChrisE]

There is always the possibility of all riders being warned about dope tests and bribery of the UCI.

However, looking at this logically from 1999 onwards, which one rider would the UCI really not have wanted to test positive? I think that is self evident.

Would the UCI have cared as much if say Fernando Escartin or Joseba Beloki had tested positive or say Alex Zulle/Richard Virenque whose reputations were already sullied owing to Festina. Dont think so.

I could see Ullrich being protected also, but then he did test positive for a non-sporting related substance so how much protection was he receiving. Pantani also had his difficulties with the dope testers.

Also how many riders would have been willing or able to shell out the money to bribe the UCI. Of course a possibility but once again Armstrong was making more per season than most of his rivals put toghether. $100,000 here or there was pocket change to Lance whilst for a lot of the other guys, it probably represented as much as a fifth or more of their annual salary.

More cash to bribe, more to lose for both Lance and the UCI in the result of a positive, would surely mean the likelyhood of Lance being protected or more protected than his rivals much, much greater.

How about if somebody other than yourself looks at things logically.

Perhaps no positives of competition benefits LA, then LA doesn't have to answer questions about beating competition that goes AAF.

Perhaps there is wide spread coverup of positives for obvious financial reasons for all involved from sponsorship to under the table issues. Perhaps it doesn't take a bribe to cover things up for those reasons. Perhaps you should read IWCiJ's post a few pages back. Perhaps.

It's really not that difficult to perceive if you aren't entrenched in your prejudices. Can you try harder to overcome your LA hate afflication, pmc? I think you can.

Just be like the little engine that could. Tell yourself "I think I can, I think I can" and perhaps you can see past your hate blinders and become part of the reality based community. We welcome you with open arms, yes we do.

 

[MacRoadie]

Look how good he looks here while getting dropped like feces from a tall cow's rear end on AdH.

When it comes to being dropped, he still looks better than this:

 

[ChrisE]

When it comes to being dropped, he still looks better than this:

Yeah, a 38 year old coming off of 3 years retirement that was still able to podium is real unimpressive. Have you checked out Sofia Vegara's wardrobe malfunction?

 

[Hugh Januss]

Armstrong is a ****.
That was no malfunction.

 

[Anonymous]

Thank-you. So crazy was Armstrong he actually passed Ullrich with 3km to go!

This was only a few short weeks after a "ho hum" effort at the Tour de Georgia.

Of course the walk of hope for doping control & the Sysmex story quelled the doubters

Basically Armstrong smashed the entire field by over a minute in 19km. Not even Vino could get close.

The results speak for themselves.

As per the commentary:
The big names this Tour, though, were expected to be Ivan Basso, Jan Ullrich, and, of course, Lance Armstrong – the final three starters. Basso performed respectably, coming in 18th, 1:53 back from Zabriskie – a perfectly respectable showing for someone who is not known as a time trialist. Ullrich also did well in 12th place, 1:12 back, especially considering that the day before he got into a gruesome crash with his team car in which he shattered the rear window as he flew through it. The real story, though, was Lance Armstrong, whose time trialing skills this year had been in doubt after a poor showing in the Tour de Georgia. After a small mishap where his foot fell out of the pedal at the start, he rode an incredible time trial, bridging the one-minute gap to Jan Ullrich with 3*km remaining. He finished two seconds behind Zabriskie, sending a clear message to anyone who thought he might be off form this year.

I think this proves the idiotic assertion Polish made, surely Armstrong was doping less than everyone else. That is why he destroyed them all. Logic. Prevails.

 

[Neworld]

Thank-you. So crazy was Armstrong he actually passed Ullrich with 3km to go!...

The bottom line is that the JU crash certainly didn't help him the next day. And, that Jan never used it as an excuse, he just rode.

Lance was always a 3 month rider with an undeniable path to only race one GT a year, with the best doped team, with more 'captains' on his team than any other, without a sprinter, with the best TTT selection, and with undeniable 'protection'.

Funny how at the 2000 Olympics, where he knew he was pharmaceutically vulnerable he showed so poorly for such an awesome'ness' champion. Jan took the RR gold and ITT silver. Ouch, what happened to his unparalleled physiological and biomechanical traits? Ya real awesome. That must have been hard to swallow.

You'd think with all his physical attributes, cunning strategies and overall superiority that even at the age of 38 he'd crush the 'pack fill' riding beside him; or...his perceived advantages were outright fake.

NW

 

[Polish]

I think this proves the idiotic assertion Polish made, surely Armstrong was doping less than everyone else. That is why he destroyed them all. Logic. Prevails.

2005 was probably the Cleanest TdF in 20 years.
Facts and evidence back that up.

Although hydration drips were still legal.
And Lance was powered by the most awesome fuel known to man since the early 80's:
His own blood.

2003 and 2004 were pretty clean too.
Thanks to Lance for pulling that "Yannick Noah" omerta breakage.
Things were beginning to look up. Until 2006 yikes.

 

[ChrisE]

Polish, etal. don't feed the troll.

 

[Polish]

You'd think with all his physical attributes, cunning strategies and overall superiority that even at the age of 38 he'd crush the 'pack fill' riding beside him; or...his perceived advantages were outright fake.

NW

Neworld, Lance DID crush the pack. Open your eyes and heart and brain please.

ChrisE, sorry for responding to Neworld. Oops.