Official Valverde thread.

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Besides, what does Purito have to do to merit a mention alongside them, Rusty?

He didn't have anything substantial to complain about regarding him

 

[Bolder]

His legacy will be tainted by the non-admission and denial in my mind. It's obviously too late now even if he wanted to repair all the damage he caused cycling. He will remembered by many as a great bike rider, but who never redeemed himself, just like Contador in may ways.

Take Michael Woods recent comments to the media:
"You only talk about the golden generation - Valverde, Contador, Sanchez. Valverde was Busted in Operation Peurto, Contador a positive test and now Sammy Sanchez. Golden Generation? You know, I wish these guys would just disappear"!

Thanks for proving exactly why I dislike Michael Woods and the rest of that new, clean cycling Vaughters North American smug little club. I was almost starting to think this was just another irrational dislike.

Edit: can you post a source for these comments?

Riders who say nothing get called out here. Riders who speak out get this kind of snark. So...you'd like Woods better if he kept to the omerta?

 

[hrotha]

Woods has a point. Obviously if he's not clean himself then he's a huge hypocrite, but he has a point.

 

[GuyIncognito]

His legacy will be tainted by the non-admission and denial in my mind. It's obviously too late now even if he wanted to repair all the damage he caused cycling. He will remembered by many as a great bike rider, but who never redeemed himself, just like Contador in may ways.

Take Michael Woods recent comments to the media:
"You only talk about the golden generation - Valverde, Contador, Sanchez. Valverde was Busted in Operation Peurto, Contador a positive test and now Sammy Sanchez. Golden Generation? You know, I wish these guys would just disappear"!

A google search turns up one source for that quote. This post.

While I mostly agree with hrotha, I'll second the above requests for a source before I believe Woods said it.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Riders who say nothing get called out here. Riders who speak out get this kind of snark. So...you'd like Woods better if he kept to the omerta?

I don't believe any rider is 100% clean, and I'm allergic to this holier than the pope, "look how anti-doping I am" attitude. Yeah, sure, just say you'd wish two of the biggest champions of the last 20 years disappeared. To be honest I think Mr. Woods would kill to have the same sorta palmares as these guys.

Like I said, I just can't stand this group of riders. The Vaughters, Garmin, North American clique led by Phil Gaimon, who wrote "if you don't like 'Woodsy' you have no soul" and who despises Valverde and Contador but is besties with Tom Danielson. The difference according to him? "30 million dollar", and "I explain it in my book". Definitely not a case of double standards here, nuh uh.

 

[Parker]

His legacy will be tainted by the non-admission and denial in my mind. It's obviously too late now even if he wanted to repair all the damage he caused cycling. He will remembered by many as a great bike rider, but who never redeemed himself, just like Contador in may ways.

Take Michael Woods recent comments to the media:
"You only talk about the golden generation - Valverde, Contador, Sanchez. Valverde was Busted in Operation Peurto, Contador a positive test and now Sammy Sanchez. Golden Generation? You know, I wish these guys would just disappear"!

A google search turns up one source for that quote. This post.

While I mostly agree with hrotha, I'll second the above requests for a source before I believe Woods said it.

The source is Richard Moore (to whom the words were spoken - originally off the record) in the post Worlds episode of the Cycling Podcast. It was previously published in their end of year book (with Woods's permission)

 

[rick james]

Re: Re:

How exactly did he "damage cycling"?

Same way Sky have, positive tests, lies, testosterone patches, etc....

That is what Sam wanted to say.

Only thing that can damage the sport now is the outing of motors ammongst the pros and well the UCI have already thought of that by introducing eMTB to head people off and say look over here at this exciting racing......while everyone says "Motors" and switches over to MotoGP

this isn't the sky thread, I think you are a little lost

 

[samhocking]

Re:

How exactly did he "damage cycling"?

He/his team damaged cycling because you can't un-rob the bank. You can however put your hands up and attempt to give the money back. Neither of which Valverde did at the time or ever will.
It's a cultural thing though. You have Wiggins & Froome thrown under a bus by English & French media for things nobody knows a thing about and still don't, then in the same year, Spanish media physically crying in happiness on live TV to millions of watchers when an unrepentant ex-doper who denied doing anything wrong despite DNA matching his blood wins one of cycling's biggest races at 38. Woods opinion on Valverde, I thought was a nice contrast that's all. I'm sure his opinion wouldn't change even if he rode for Movistar.

 

[samhocking]

His legacy will be tainted by the non-admission and denial in my mind. It's obviously too late now even if he wanted to repair all the damage he caused cycling. He will remembered by many as a great bike rider, but who never redeemed himself, just like Contador in may ways.

Take Michael Woods recent comments to the media:
"You only talk about the golden generation - Valverde, Contador, Sanchez. Valverde was Busted in Operation Peurto, Contador a positive test and now Sammy Sanchez. Golden Generation? You know, I wish these guys would just disappear"!

A google search turns up one source for that quote. This post.

While I mostly agree with hrotha, I'll second the above requests for a source before I believe Woods said it.

The source is Richard Moore (to whom the words were spoken - originally off the record) in the post Worlds episode of the Cycling Podcast. It was previously published in their end of year book (with Woods's permission)

Always makes me laugh when people think everything is on google, like books don't exist or something?

Important to add, Woods said all this long before Worlds this year, it's not a reaction to Valverde beating him.

 

[samhocking]

For context of Woods comments, in relation to watching Icarus and Sammy Sanchez getting popped.

I speak to Joe Dombrowski and Michael Woods of Cannondale-Drapac, both sporting severe Grand Tour haircuts. ‘We went to the same place today,’ says Joe. Woods, who always seems to be restless, and bursting with curiosity, suddenly asks, ‘Hey, have you watched Icarus?’
He’s talking about the documentary, just out, that reveals the scale of Russia’s state-organised doping programme. His thoughts on it are interesting. The film actually began as an attempt by the film-maker, a keen amateur cyclist, to follow a hardcore doping programme to compete in a multi-day sportive in the Alps. The assumption often, when it comes to cycling, seems to be that doping explains everything: that there is no performance ceiling for someone prepared to dope. Which ignores lots of other things that go into a performance, such as talent. Like a lot of people, Woods found that aspect, and the assumptions behind it, irritating but, overall, he found the film fascinating and shocking on a whole new level. ‘Basically,’ he says, ‘if you were Russian, you doped.’
‘But some people think that about professional cyclists – they would say that of all the riders doing the Vuelta,’ I say.
Woods and Dombrowski look dismayed at that. One big story on the eve of the race is a positive test for the 2008 Olympic road race champion, Samuel Sanchez. He’s the biggest name snared in quite some time. Woods is disgusted.
‘You know, they talk about Spain’s golden generation: Valverde, Contador, Sanchez. Valverde busted in Operation Puerto, Contador had a positive test, and now Sanchez. Golden generation? You know, I wish these guys would just disappear.’

Later, Contador, soon to retire, is introduced on stage. A short film is played, a tribute to his career. We’re in France, so Warren Barguil gets the biggest cheer, but for Contador, ahead of his farewell tour, there is warm, heartfelt appreciation. To speak ill of Contador over the next three weeks will be tantamount to blasphemy. As Woods says, 'it’s remarkable, really'.

 

[Blanco]

His legacy will be tainted by the non-admission and denial in my mind. It's obviously too late now even if he wanted to repair all the damage he caused cycling. He will remembered by many as a great bike rider, but who never redeemed himself, just like Contador in may ways.

Take Michael Woods recent comments to the media:
"You only talk about the golden generation - Valverde, Contador, Sanchez. Valverde was Busted in Operation Peurto, Contador a positive test and now Sammy Sanchez. Golden Generation? You know, I wish these guys would just disappear"!

A google search turns up one source for that quote. This post.

While I mostly agree with hrotha, I'll second the above requests for a source before I believe Woods said it.

The source is Richard Moore (to whom the words were spoken - originally off the record) in the post Worlds episode of the Cycling Podcast. It was previously published in their end of year book (with Woods's permission)

Always makes me laugh when people think everything is on google, like books don't exist or something?

Important to add, Woods said all this long before Worlds this year, it's not a reaction to Valverde beating him.

Yeah, it would be a little inconvenient to say that now, when he hold the wheel of that unrepentant drug cheat to the very end of the hardest one-day race in years, no?

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

How exactly did he "damage cycling"?

He/his team damaged cycling because you can't un-rob the bank. You can however put your hands up and attempt to give the money back. Neither of which Valverde did at the time or ever will.
It's a cultural thing though. You have Wiggins & Froome thrown under a bus by English & French media for things nobody knows a thing about and still don't, then in the same year, Spanish media physically crying in happiness on live TV to millions of watchers when an unrepentant ex-doper who denied doing anything wrong despite DNA matching his blood wins one of cycling's biggest races at 38. Woods opinion on Valverde, I thought was a nice contrast that's all. I'm sure his opinion wouldn't change even if he rode for Movistar.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[veganrob]

Re: Re:

How exactly did he "damage cycling"?

He/his team damaged cycling because you can't un-rob the bank. You can however put your hands up and attempt to give the money back. Neither of which Valverde did at the time or ever will.
It's a cultural thing though. You have Wiggins & Froome thrown under a bus by English & French media for things nobody knows a thing about and still don't, then in the same year, Spanish media physically crying in happiness on live TV to millions of watchers when an unrepentant ex-doper who denied doing anything wrong despite DNA matching his blood wins one of cycling's biggest races at 38. Woods opinion on Valverde, I thought was a nice contrast that's all. I'm sure his opinion wouldn't change even if he rode for Movistar.

How are all those crying Spanish people any different from you and the British media?

 

[samhocking]

As far as I understand. Valverde was banned, Contador was banned. The point is Froome & Wiggins were not banned yet still thrown under a bus by British media, but not Spanish media. Valverde & Contador the opposite and celebrated at the end of their careers regardless of doping. That is a cultural difference.
It's like when my cycling buddy goes off to his training camps in Spain. The spanish simply don't see doping as wrong much of the time. The ex pros and locals he trains with, simply see doping as acceptable and part of what cycling is and being a good rider is about, whereas I would argue France & Britain see it more like what cycling shouldn't be, especially the media and fans.

 

[brownbobby]

Re: Re:

How exactly did he "damage cycling"?

He/his team damaged cycling because you can't un-rob the bank. You can however put your hands up and attempt to give the money back. Neither of which Valverde did at the time or ever will.
It's a cultural thing though. You have Wiggins & Froome thrown under a bus by English & French media for things nobody knows a thing about and still don't, then in the same year, Spanish media physically crying in happiness on live TV to millions of watchers when an unrepentant ex-doper who denied doing anything wrong despite DNA matching his blood wins one of cycling's biggest races at 38. Woods opinion on Valverde, I thought was a nice contrast that's all. I'm sure his opinion wouldn't change even if he rode for Movistar.

How are all those crying Spanish people any different from you and the British media?

You think the 'British media' lionise our cyclists and turn a blind eye to any doping suspicions or charges......i'm guessing you dont read 'British media' very often

 

[Angliru]

As far as I understand. Valverde was banned, Contador was banned. The point is Froome & Wiggins were not banned yet still thrown under a bus by British media, but not Spanish media. Valverde & Contador the opposite and celebrated at the end of their careers regardless of doping. That is a cultural difference.
It's like when my cycling buddy goes off to his training camps in Spain. The spanish simply don't see doping as wrong much of the time. The ex pros and locals he trains with, simply see doping as acceptable and part of what cycling is and being a good rider is about, whereas I would argue France & Britain see it more like what cycling shouldn't be, especially the media and fans.

...and yet France allows Richard Virenque to participate in Tour events and commentate. We have yourself and many others (likely of British descent and/or residence), self-appointed members of the Sky defense team, apparently with some form of Sky-criticism-posting-alert app on your smartphone, ever ready to jump to the defense of all that is Sky-right in the world. There is a decent population of this type in the cycling forum community such that, regardless of the British media slant on Sky and their transgressions, definitely take an opposing view to this turncoat phenomenon.

 

[Rollthedice]

As far as I understand. Valverde was banned, Contador was banned. The point is Froome & Wiggins were not banned yet still thrown under a bus by British media, but not Spanish media. Valverde & Contador the opposite and celebrated at the end of their careers regardless of doping. That is a cultural difference.
It's like when my cycling buddy goes off to his training camps in Spain. The spanish simply don't see doping as wrong much of the time. The ex pros and locals he trains with, simply see doping as acceptable and part of what cycling is and being a good rider is about, whereas I would argue France & Britain see it more like what cycling shouldn't be, especially the media and fans.

Let's see, we have a Giro winner caught with double salbutamol in the other GT he won, we have a Tour winner who first cracks top 10 in the same year he wins it at 32, we have a Vuelta winner previously banned for a doping offence and we have the world champion who's 38 and who was banned for two years a long time ago. Cycling is in a good place.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

As far as I understand. Valverde was banned, Contador was banned. The point is Froome & Wiggins were not banned yet still thrown under a bus by British media, but not Spanish media. Valverde & Contador the opposite and celebrated at the end of their careers regardless of doping. That is a cultural difference.
It's like when my cycling buddy goes off to his training camps in Spain. The spanish simply don't see doping as wrong much of the time. The ex pros and locals he trains with, simply see doping as acceptable and part of what cycling is and being a good rider is about, whereas I would argue France & Britain see it more like what cycling shouldn't be, especially the media and fans.

And that's why proven dopers like Linford Christie and David Millar are of course ostraci... wait, no they aren't. And that's why Dr. Bonar was taken down swiftly because the UK took a strong legal stance against dop... no wait, no it didn't. In fact, it turned out that the same flaw in the Spanish system that had allowed Operación Puerto to stall to the extent it did existed in the British one too. Rather inconvenient for the British fans who'd been acting all smug for a decade about the culture of doping in southern Europe in general. Especially when the Italians entered neo-pros and lesser known riders at the Olympics due to making any riders with doping history ineligible, and Britain entered David Millar whilst simultaneously claiming to be the faces of new, clean cycling.

Spare us the sanctimonious BS. Britain doesn't have a superior culture when it comes to doping than anybody else. It just likes to think it does, and it likes even more to tell everybody it does. We have a whole thread for this discussion ("Brits don't dope") so let's leave it there.

 

[Angliru]

As far as I understand. Valverde was banned, Contador was banned. The point is Froome & Wiggins were not banned yet still thrown under a bus by British media, but not Spanish media. Valverde & Contador the opposite and celebrated at the end of their careers regardless of doping. That is a cultural difference.
It's like when my cycling buddy goes off to his training camps in Spain. The spanish simply don't see doping as wrong much of the time. The ex pros and locals he trains with, simply see doping as acceptable and part of what cycling is and being a good rider is about, whereas I would argue France & Britain see it more like what cycling shouldn't be, especially the media and fans.

...to add to the confusion, you have the story of Tom Simpson, who has a shrine on Mt. Ventoux. He's seen as a tragic hero by both the Brits and the French. He even, as of 2013, has a magazine named after him.

 

[proffate]

That is a cultural difference.

Americans are quick to hate on doping cyclists but check out how many PED sanctions there are in the NFL this year alone and no one gives a rat's arse: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/fines-suspensions/

Can you explain that away with "culture"? American culture is to be strict on doping but American culture doesn't care about doping?

 

[del1962]

Re:

Yep, that golden Italian generation with Rebellin, Bettini, Simoni, Alessandro Petacchi, Stefano Garzelli, Leonardo Piepoli and Paolo Savoldelli was way better than that golden Spanish generation. And of course, that golden American generation with Armstrong, Leipheimer, Hincapie, Landis and Hamilton might have been tainted, but thank goodness we got some more trustworthy riders in the following generation with Vande Velde, Danielson and Zabriskie... [/sarcasm] we have to remember that these were the Spanish 'golden generation' because they were the ones that had to rebuild Spanish cycling after Puerto flushed away the preceding generation with Heras, Sevilla, Mancebo, Gil, Casero, Terminaitor and so on. There's also five years' age gap between Samu and Alberto, you may as well throw Sastre and Mosquera in there too. And Cobo too, he's older than Contador.

Besides, what does Purito have to do to merit a mention alongside them, Rusty?

This post completely ignores the context of Woods comments.

 

[veganrob]

That is a cultural difference.

Americans are quick to hate on doping cyclists but check out how many PED sanctions there are in the NFL this year alone and no one gives a rat's ****: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/fines-suspensions/

Can you explain that away with "culture"? American culture is to be strict on doping but American culture doesn't care about doping?

TBF, USA is as *** up as anybody if not more so that anywhere in the world when it comes to doping. Total hypocrites.

 

[GuyIncognito]

His legacy will be tainted by the non-admission and denial in my mind. It's obviously too late now even if he wanted to repair all the damage he caused cycling. He will remembered by many as a great bike rider, but who never redeemed himself, just like Contador in may ways.

Take Michael Woods recent comments to the media:
"You only talk about the golden generation - Valverde, Contador, Sanchez. Valverde was Busted in Operation Peurto, Contador a positive test and now Sammy Sanchez. Golden Generation? You know, I wish these guys would just disappear"!

A google search turns up one source for that quote. This post.

While I mostly agree with hrotha, I'll second the above requests for a source before I believe Woods said it.

The source is Richard Moore (to whom the words were spoken - originally off the record) in the post Worlds episode of the Cycling Podcast. It was previously published in their end of year book (with Woods's permission)

Always makes me laugh when people think everything is on google, like books don't exist or something?

Important to add, Woods said all this long before Worlds this year, it's not a reaction to Valverde beating him.

So let's recap.

You posted an inflammatory statement, that you chose to go dig up long after it was made, and you failed to provide the context in which it was made, in order to make it sound even more inflammatory . When asked repeatedly for a source you answered other people while failing to provide a source, and when someone finally provided it for you, you mocked the people who asked for a source.

Then you tried to distance yourself by saying the quote isn't a reaction to this weekend's race when you were the one who went digging it up and introduced it as a reply to a discussion about this weekend's race.

And you don't see anything wrong with any of this?

 

[rick james]

Amazing....the clinic now wants context

 

[Parker]

Re:

Amazing....the clinic now wants context

And for riders to speak out about dopers, except if it's one of their favourites