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Official Valverde thread.

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Re:

samhocking said:
You know it's true. Spanish & Italian media wwere generally not that bothered about Froome or Wiggins, UK & French media were all over it every day like a rash. Lets not forget who broke Wiggins & Froome's stories. It was over every tabloid for heavens sake in both Countries, both times a joint effort to expose too!
There is a doping culture difference between France & UK and Spain & Italy when it comes to doping attitudes. I'm hardly the first to say it, it's been said by pretty much every serious cycling commentator for years now!

That would explain the last iconic Italian rider being arrested by the police and publicly manhandled into custody all while on display to the public by the media. That certainly is an example of a country whose culture is one of looking the other way in terms of doping. :rolleyes:
 
I would imagine that was Pantani, even if the details aren't entirely accurate. But the treatment he got was massively unpopular and most of the Italian public emphatically stood by him and practically worshipped him, so I don't think that would be a good example.
 
Lets just put it this way.

Spain - The Spanish Minister of Sport & Spanish Federation fully backed Valverde's claim of innocence despite his DNA matching blood in a bag with EPO in it.

UK - UKAD Investigate BC & Sky over an unknown jiffy bag without any evidence and conclude cheating, still without any direct evidence and even Parliamentary Select Committee spend hundreds of hours trying to prove illegal doping without evidence.

That is a different anti-doping culture.
 
samhocking said:
Lets just put it this way.

Spain - The Spanish Minister of Sport & Spanish Federation fully backed Valverde's claim of innocence despite his DNA matching blood in a bag with EPO in it.

UK - UKAD Investigate BC & Sky over an unknown jiffy bag without any evidence and conclude cheating, still without any direct evidence and even Parliamentary Select Committee spend hundreds of hours trying to prove illegal doping without evidence.

That is a different anti-doping culture.

hahaha Coe and Radcliffe

and...er...Farah

we hate these guys ;)
 
gillan1969 said:
samhocking said:
Lets just put it this way.

Spain - The Spanish Minister of Sport & Spanish Federation fully backed Valverde's claim of innocence despite his DNA matching blood in a bag with EPO in it.

UK - UKAD Investigate BC & Sky over an unknown jiffy bag without any evidence and conclude cheating, still without any direct evidence and even Parliamentary Select Committee spend hundreds of hours trying to prove illegal doping without evidence.

That is a different anti-doping culture.

hahaha Coe and Radcliffe

and...er...Farah

we hate these guys ;)

I'll agree with that...BUT as this is a cycling forum it has to be pointed out that there's a definite disconnect between sport in general (eg. Athletics) and cycling when it comes to the media.

Sections of the UK media, playing to their readership and a growing anti cycling sentiment in the UK, are all too ready to hang out to dry any cyclists with even a hint of doping controversy, whilst mostly turning a blind eye to most other sports.
 
brownbobby said:
gillan1969 said:
samhocking said:
Lets just put it this way.

Spain - The Spanish Minister of Sport & Spanish Federation fully backed Valverde's claim of innocence despite his DNA matching blood in a bag with EPO in it.

UK - UKAD Investigate BC & Sky over an unknown jiffy bag without any evidence and conclude cheating, still without any direct evidence and even Parliamentary Select Committee spend hundreds of hours trying to prove illegal doping without evidence.

That is a different anti-doping culture.

hahaha Coe and Radcliffe

and...er...Farah

we hate these guys ;)

I'll agree with that...BUT as this is a cycling forum it has to be pointed out that there's a definite disconnect between sport in general (eg. Athletics) and cycling when it comes to the media.

Sections of the UK media, playing to their readership and a growing anti cycling sentiment in the UK, are all too ready to hang out to dry any cyclists with even a hint of doping controversy, whilst mostly turning a blind eye to most other sports.

its apples and pears....the public on mainland europe has had pro cycling for over a century...we've had it for 6 years....

combined with our hatred of cyclists on the road makes for a different backdrop for any press coverage...

we don't have an anti-doping culture or a doping culture when it comes to cycling...we haven't yet formed that culture...the market is not mature enough......
 
gillan1969 said:
samhocking said:
Lets just put it this way.

Spain - The Spanish Minister of Sport & Spanish Federation fully backed Valverde's claim of innocence despite his DNA matching blood in a bag with EPO in it.

UK - UKAD Investigate BC & Sky over an unknown jiffy bag without any evidence and conclude cheating, still without any direct evidence and even Parliamentary Select Committee spend hundreds of hours trying to prove illegal doping without evidence.

That is a different anti-doping culture.

hahaha Coe and Radcliffe

and...er...Farah

we hate these guys ;)

who's we?
 
"Operación Puerto is something I shouldn't be asked about," he said bluntly.
"That's water under the bridge, and I don't even want to talk about it. I believe I've sufficiently demonstrated who I am since then.

"Who asks me about Operación Puerto is clueless.




thank my left nut he isn't Anglo Saxon saying stuff like that
 
I'm pretty sure I remember wiggins making a lot of very similar comments after 2007.

Not even about himself but when asked about others like contador, Armstrong, basso, vino, bunch of others he would defend them with the same points valverde makes there.


But according to what I'm reading above, only spanish people behave that way. :cool:
 
rick james said:
gillan1969 said:
samhocking said:
Lets just put it this way.

Spain - The Spanish Minister of Sport & Spanish Federation fully backed Valverde's claim of innocence despite his DNA matching blood in a bag with EPO in it.

UK - UKAD Investigate BC & Sky over an unknown jiffy bag without any evidence and conclude cheating, still without any direct evidence and even Parliamentary Select Committee spend hundreds of hours trying to prove illegal doping without evidence.

That is a different anti-doping culture.

hahaha Coe and Radcliffe

and...er...Farah

we hate these guys ;)

who's we?

we, as in the british....all feted and yet all dodgy as.....
 
The Hitch said:
I'm pretty sure I remember wiggins making a lot of very similar comments after 2007.

Not even about himself but when asked about others like contador, Armstrong, basso, vino, bunch of others he would defend them with the same points valverde makes there.


But according to what I'm reading above, only spanish people behave that way. :cool:

I'm not saying what Valverde has said is wrong. With the support he received from Spanish Cycling Federation, Spanish Legal System & Spanish Minister for Sports when defending himself against UCI, CONI & WADA his hands are tied. To admit he did anything wrong involves many significant people who defended him at the time. Life would get very messy for him, so omerta is really his only way through it anyway, which is why I think he said many are clueless about Puerto or asking him about Puerto.
As for Wiggins, i'm not sure how that relates to Cultural differences. Anyone who's raced in Spain, gone on training camps with ex Spanish pros etc will understand where I'm coming from, the culture is completely different when discussing doping rider to rider and the ethical reasoning used to justify it.
 
gillan1969 said:
rick james said:
gillan1969 said:
samhocking said:
Lets just put it this way.

Spain - The Spanish Minister of Sport & Spanish Federation fully backed Valverde's claim of innocence despite his DNA matching blood in a bag with EPO in it.

UK - UKAD Investigate BC & Sky over an unknown jiffy bag without any evidence and conclude cheating, still without any direct evidence and even Parliamentary Select Committee spend hundreds of hours trying to prove illegal doping without evidence.

That is a different anti-doping culture.

hahaha Coe and Radcliffe

and...er...Farah

we hate these guys ;)

who's we?

we, as in the british....all feted and yet all dodgy as.....

didn't realise you spoke for all the UK
 
rick james said:
gillan1969 said:
rick james said:
gillan1969 said:
samhocking said:
Lets just put it this way.

Spain - The Spanish Minister of Sport & Spanish Federation fully backed Valverde's claim of innocence despite his DNA matching blood in a bag with EPO in it.

UK - UKAD Investigate BC & Sky over an unknown jiffy bag without any evidence and conclude cheating, still without any direct evidence and even Parliamentary Select Committee spend hundreds of hours trying to prove illegal doping without evidence.

That is a different anti-doping culture.

hahaha Coe and Radcliffe

and...er...Farah

we hate these guys ;)

who's we?

we, as in the british....all feted and yet all dodgy as.....

didn't realise you spoke for all the UK

I'm not 'speaking' for anyone I'm illustrating what I see with my own eyes in the media and on TV outlets...if you see something different please help me by explaining....
 
Mod hat on:


Ok, this has gone far enough down this path I think. This thread is about Valverde. It's not about the perceived differences between anti-doping/doping sentiments crassly generalised to a whole nation based on anecdotes and personal feelings. Either move your discussion to a relevant thread or stop.

Cheers,

KB.
 
Aug 18, 2017
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Re:

rick james said:
"Operación Puerto is something I shouldn't be asked about," he said bluntly.
"That's water under the bridge, and I don't even want to talk about it. I believe I've sufficiently demonstrated who I am since then.

"Who asks me about Operación Puerto is clueless.




thank my left nut he isn't Anglo Saxon saying stuff like that

CONI, the Italian Olympic committee, may confiscate the blood bags from Operacion Puerto. The court in Madrid has accepted the request of CONI, reports the Spanish newspaper AS.
The ruling means a possible breakthrough in the doping case that has been running since 2006 around the controversial physician Eufemiano Fuentes. Spanish researchers collected a total of 211 blood cases. More than two hundred athletes were involved in the doping practices of Fuentes, including 47 cyclists.
The blood bags are currently stored in the Barcelona laboratory. The laboratory has informed AS that it has not yet received a formal request for a transfer. Fuentes has immediately appealed after the judgment of the Madrid court.
Earlier this week, new world champion Alejandro Valverde did not want to answer any questions about Operacion Puerto. The Spaniard was suspended for two years due to involvement in this case in 2010.

AS article
https://as.com/ciclismo/2018/10/11/mas_ciclismo/1539281004_394846.html
 
I feel Valverde, is probably gonna have to get involved discussing Operation Puerto whether he likes it or not as it sounds like CONI have finally been granted their quota of the 211 blood bags. Looks like Spanish Cycling Federation have refused to receive their quota and so all other blood and computer equipment and data will be destroyed. Some reports saying CONI will actually receive all 211 bags though.
Fuentes has appealed this new ruling obviously.

Edit. Sorry double-post -ish. We must read AS at the same time : )
 
In fairness to Valverde, though, he is one of the few that can argue water under the bridge regards Puerto; we know he was involved, whether he pretends he was innocent or not we know that, and like only a few others, he's paid the price. Little new can be gleaned from Valverde as far as Operación Puerto is concerned; he isn't going to volunteer anything he doesn't have to, that much is clear, and what are people expecting, that he's going to be sanctioned? Unlike most of the others in Puerto, Valverde, like Scarponi and Basso, actually has been suspended, so apart from stripping a few of his pre-2006 results (and in that instance, which ones? We know that these cases can involve some selectivity, just look at Menchov being stripped of 65th in the Tour but not 1st in the Giro for example) what can they do to him without falling foul of double jeopardy?

The big thing for it is, hardly anybody can pay at this point in time. Valverde is just about the last person from the investigation left of any relevance. I know Mancebo and Sevilla are still active but they've been personae non grata at the top level for a decade and have in reality suffered far more for their involvement than the guys that got bans. They're also 40+ and only competing in distant, less high profile scenes whereas obviously Ally Vally is about as prominent as a rider can get, wearing the rainbow jersey in his sunset like Joop Zoetemelk or something. What are we going to gain from a few post-dated suspensions for the likes of Allan Davis, António Colóm and co.? It's meandered for so long and so many of the actants from a cycling point of view are already well known about, that it's almost faded from relevance at this stage; the known Puerto riders' careers will always have that slight cloud to them. And while there may be something at stake for those who have some of the unknown bags, or knowing definitively who some of the "probably that person but not certainly" bags are, Alejandro Valverde is not one of those people. He's been DNA-matched to a bag, he's been linked definitively to Puerto and he is forever indelibly tainted by it already. Therefore he likely has nothing to fear from this investigation other than repetitious questions he doesn't want to answer and will likely continue to evade in the same manner as always given that he's already told us all he's ever likely to be willing to tell us on the subject.
 

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