BullsFan22 said:
mmm, some of the Russian athletes are up there in the swimming....but at a guess, the doping has been dialed down for Russia and business as usual for the rest of the world.
mmm, some of the Russian athletes are up there in the swimming....but at a guess, the doping has been dialed down for Russia and business as usual for the rest of the world.
msjett said:
Sure, but you'd have to be crazy (I don't mean you specifically) to think that the top contenders aren't on something. Sorry for the cynicism, but I am not sure if the Russians really 'dialed' down, maybe they have, which might suggest they are talented enough to still compete for medals, but not sure.
Yes, it is amazing how many people will throw stones at the dirty dopers of other countries, but fail to see that if the athlete from there country is beating them, chances are.....
I caught the end of a morning show here and they were talking to former swimmers about Mack Hortons comment about the Chinese swimmer, they said if it was any other country the person would have been banned for two years.....clearly they didn't see the story about Armistead...who should also be banned for two years and that is just the tip of the got away with it iceberg...
I caught the end of a morning show here and they were talking to former swimmers about Mack Hortons comment about the Chinese swimmer, they said if it was any other country the person would have been banned for two years.....clearly they didn't see the story about Armistead...who should also be banned for two years and that is just the tip of the got away with it iceberg...
Does anyone familiar with swimming know if there is anything similar to power meters in swimming for measuring power output? I would be interested to see some numbers for what kinds of wattage is being put out in some of these performances. Two days in and there have already been several suspicious looking performances (I have no dogs in the fight other than what I am seeing looking awfully similar to 1990s and pre-2010 cycling).
Re:
Wouldn't be the first time - wasn't there a track or velodrome that turned out to be short recently (last 10 years)?
msjett said:
Wouldn't be the first time - wasn't there a track or velodrome that turned out to be short recently (last 10 years)?
- Mar 10, 2009
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Re:
There have been attempts however the problem is that given the significantly larger degrees of freedom with the biomechanics of swimming v cycling, there is a much larger variability in gross efficiency. It's a similar issue for running.Blakeslee said:
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That's unfortunate. I thought something along these lines might be the case, I'm not much when it comes to analyzing numbers. Thanks for the reply and info!
Alex Simmons/RST said:
That's unfortunate. I thought something along these lines might be the case, I'm not much when it comes to analyzing numbers. Thanks for the reply and info!
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Here's an example of an attempt to measure swimming power:
http://www.indiana.edu/~ccss/files/Documents/Approximation%20of%20active%20drag.pdf
Note the variance / goodness of fit of the power-speed relationship.
Yes, most attempts to infer power usually comes from measuring the real time pace of the swimmer and converting to a power value (akin to converting flat terrain cycling speed to power), however there will be quite some variability in fluid drag factors which means the precision will be pretty limited.Blakeslee said:
Here's an example of an attempt to measure swimming power:
http://www.indiana.edu/~ccss/files/Documents/Approximation%20of%20active%20drag.pdf
Note the variance / goodness of fit of the power-speed relationship.
Has anyone else seen the American swimmer Lilly King and her comments about the Russian swimmer Yuliya Efimova?
Did it put anyone else in mind of the Armstrong/Simeoni incident?
Did it put anyone else in mind of the Armstrong/Simeoni incident?
- Mar 25, 2013
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Agree, couldn't watch the BBC. I stayed with RTE who at least didn't hesitate to address the situations with Efimova and Yun Sang.
That's a very good piece by Kimmage but would disagree too with not caring about the Olympics. I can understand his disillusionment and fed up nature with it all, yet when I see Fiona Doyle breaking down in tears and talking about Efimova and cheats robbing her of a potential place in the semi, then I do care. As long as there is clean athletes (whatever percentage), then it's about holding these people to account.
BTW, I welcome the part he addressed about Heffernan. He has got an easy time over his past associations.
ebandit said:
Agree, couldn't watch the BBC. I stayed with RTE who at least didn't hesitate to address the situations with Efimova and Yun Sang.
That's a very good piece by Kimmage but would disagree too with not caring about the Olympics. I can understand his disillusionment and fed up nature with it all, yet when I see Fiona Doyle breaking down in tears and talking about Efimova and cheats robbing her of a potential place in the semi, then I do care. As long as there is clean athletes (whatever percentage), then it's about holding these people to account.
BTW, I welcome the part he addressed about Heffernan. He has got an easy time over his past associations.
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Conflicting studies on whether this cupping actually works.
http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/why-olympic-athleteshave-those-little-red-marks-on-them--Z1n6C8wbPZ
http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/why-olympic-athleteshave-those-little-red-marks-on-them--Z1n6C8wbPZ
Re: Re:
You know, there is a history of those that are the loudest and proudest about being 'clean' that at some point turn out to be frauds. For example, Radcliffe. No, hasn't been caught, but look at her records, specifically the marathon, minutes ahead of the next best and clearly better than all the 'cheats' that she lambasts on a regular basis. Is Doyle dirty or clean? I suppose only she and her trainers know that. It's easy to blame the 'cheats.' Had she made it to the finals and potentially won a medal and beaten those 'cheats' she would be signing a different tune. At the same time, when you get to that top, top level at these Olympics, winning medals or getting close to it, it's hard to distinguish between a clean and a dirty athlete. I'd love to be proven wrong, but there many more 'dirty' athletes than 'clean' athletes in swimming. Sorry for the cynicism. I am just not going to fall in the trap of blaming Russians for doping in sport, particularly not at this level of competition.
gooner said:
You know, there is a history of those that are the loudest and proudest about being 'clean' that at some point turn out to be frauds. For example, Radcliffe. No, hasn't been caught, but look at her records, specifically the marathon, minutes ahead of the next best and clearly better than all the 'cheats' that she lambasts on a regular basis. Is Doyle dirty or clean? I suppose only she and her trainers know that. It's easy to blame the 'cheats.' Had she made it to the finals and potentially won a medal and beaten those 'cheats' she would be signing a different tune. At the same time, when you get to that top, top level at these Olympics, winning medals or getting close to it, it's hard to distinguish between a clean and a dirty athlete. I'd love to be proven wrong, but there many more 'dirty' athletes than 'clean' athletes in swimming. Sorry for the cynicism. I am just not going to fall in the trap of blaming Russians for doping in sport, particularly not at this level of competition.
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Point taken and of course it doesn't mean a person is clean. I can't vouch for anyone 100% when I'm not in their inner circle. Nevertheless, I would be certain there are athletes that fall into category.
Regarding the bold, what reaction would you like to see in Fiona Doyle's situation if we take for the sake of argument she was a clean athlete? If we're taking it on the premise she would say nothing if she was a medal hope, then that doesn't add up when King and Meilutyte are criticising her too. Again, not saying they are clean either.
Never said it was a Russian alone problem.
BullsFan22 said:
Point taken and of course it doesn't mean a person is clean. I can't vouch for anyone 100% when I'm not in their inner circle. Nevertheless, I would be certain there are athletes that fall into category.
Regarding the bold, what reaction would you like to see in Fiona Doyle's situation if we take for the sake of argument she was a clean athlete? If we're taking it on the premise she would say nothing if she was a medal hope, then that doesn't add up when King and Meilutyte are criticising her too. Again, not saying they are clean either.
Never said it was a Russian alone problem.
Re:
Wut. :lol:
I mean seriously. I suppose it makes it easier to spot the athletes who would just do anything ...
gooner said:
Wut. :lol:
I mean seriously. I suppose it makes it easier to spot the athletes who would just do anything ...
Re: Re:
Perhaps I overreacted and since I've never been entrenched in top sport where things are probably kept within that circle of athletes (that's where Armstrong-Simeoni or Armstrong-Lemond is evident) I don't know specifically what goes on. Not necessarily about doping how's, when's, how often...but discussions of doping, snitching, jealousy, finger pointing, having an axe to grind, redemption (mutiny within teams??). Maybe there are also personal battles that go on. Efimova and Doyle are similar in age, probably have gone against each other in different age groups and there is some history.
Comparing it to cycling, nobody really, at least publicly, has come out to criticize doping on a bigger scale. Sure, some have come out and said some things critical of doping and dopers, but things are still kept fairly tight lipped. I suppose it's the omertà, but I think it's also afraid of being looked at as a 'hypocrite.'
Maybe Doyle IS 'clean,' and she really did feel cheated out of a further run at this particular event, but I don't know. I would love to give everyone competing the benefit of doubt, but unfortunately the precedent has been set, a while back, and as of now, I don't see how I can change my mind.
gooner said:
Perhaps I overreacted and since I've never been entrenched in top sport where things are probably kept within that circle of athletes (that's where Armstrong-Simeoni or Armstrong-Lemond is evident) I don't know specifically what goes on. Not necessarily about doping how's, when's, how often...but discussions of doping, snitching, jealousy, finger pointing, having an axe to grind, redemption (mutiny within teams??). Maybe there are also personal battles that go on. Efimova and Doyle are similar in age, probably have gone against each other in different age groups and there is some history.
Comparing it to cycling, nobody really, at least publicly, has come out to criticize doping on a bigger scale. Sure, some have come out and said some things critical of doping and dopers, but things are still kept fairly tight lipped. I suppose it's the omertà, but I think it's also afraid of being looked at as a 'hypocrite.'
Maybe Doyle IS 'clean,' and she really did feel cheated out of a further run at this particular event, but I don't know. I would love to give everyone competing the benefit of doubt, but unfortunately the precedent has been set, a while back, and as of now, I don't see how I can change my mind.
The HGH face structure side effects are really noticeable with bike helmets and swim caps on. Especially with the females.
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