One for auscyclefan94...

[mherm79]

So consensus is all for the giro and then see what happens for the tour?

yes yes. sad that he'll have to go it alone again but he picked another weak team.

 

[Ferminal]

Does it matter, OPL have no super-doms, neither do BMC. And that's the only thing Evans has ever lacked in regards to a "team".

 

[karlboss]

Does it matter, OPL have no super-doms, neither do BMC. And that's the only thing Evans has ever lacked in regards to a "team".

Agree, Horner was getting close. Jurgen should be a super dom or at least close to that standard this year. I was hoping BMC would at some point sign someone. Maybe for next year.

 

[Ferminal]

Agree, Horner was getting close. Jurgen should be a super dom or at least close to that standard this year. I was hoping BMC would at some point sign someone. Maybe for next year.

Horner served Evans well in 2007, but he's no Klöden.

Evans blamed his team on many occasions, which is simply unfair on the cattle he had around him. It wasn't the 8 guys with him which were the problem, it was his relationship with the management which failed to secure the one teammate he needed to win.

 

[karlboss]

Horner served Evans well in 2007, but he's no Klöden.

Evans blamed his team on many occasions, which is simply unfair on the cattle he had around him. It wasn't the 8 guys with him which were the problem, it was his relationship with the management which failed to secure the one teammate he needed to win.

I don't know about the personalities but i think Evans and Kloden or Leipheimer could work quite well. Super domestiques are tough to come by, how do you secure one and make sure they'll work for you and don't want dual leadership?
No one is close to Contador in talent, The Schleck's work as they are brothers, Armstrong pays well, interested to see how liquigas do at the GT's this year.

For instance if Kohl didn't get busted, how do you say to him you came 3rd last year...work for the guy who came 2nd.

 

[Mellow Velo]

It should, and it is. I think the comment "8 from this bunch" was meaning "Evans + 8 from this bunch", but Evans being the first name mentioned = confusion.

Indeed. I should have removed Cuddles from the list, but didn't want to deprive ACF of another opportunity to see "the name " in print.

Still, looking at his list, picking 7 was a struggle.
How many of them can survive in the 2000 metre club?

Horner? Did a decent job for Cadel. Just as Cadel reckons he was unsupported, so too was CH. One man can't supply a Tour contender with all his Tour mountain needs.

 

[issoisso]

Never stated he was doing the giro. Check his twitter as it states he's doing the tour.

Yes he did. A few times. Always with the justification that he was going to spend the Summer with his family.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Lotto also brought in Popo, Dekker and Moreno, all of which could have done the job. But one had a diastrous year before suddenly being good again when reunited with Bruyneel, one was busted, and Cadel left before we saw the third ride with him. Lotto tried, they really did, but they were kinda naïve about what they needed to do for him, and other times just plain unlucky.

Yes, it would have been hard to tell Kohl to work for Evans, but Kohl could barely time trial (except for the last one in the Tour to defend his podium despite falling off the start ramp, natch) and having two guys in the heads of state group would enable the team to work over other contenders just as CSC had worked them over and relegated Evans to another 2nd.

 

[auscyclefan94]

It should, and it is. I think the comment "8 from this bunch" was meaning "Evans + 8 from this bunch", but Evans being the first name mentioned = confusion.

A lot of those names up there I have good knowledge and sources to back up they are riding. The squad will be very similar to that.

You are right isso, he did state that but recently on his twitter and on some articles he is quoted to be confirmed for the tour.

 

[Galic Ho]

Good work Gallic, you've just proven your lack of intelligence especially by basically saying that all australians are one eyed and stupid when it comes to our sportsmen. maybe I should make a folder for all your comments to bring up at a later date to show your absolute stupidity!

Do it. But make sure you state why I lack intelligence. By all means state I lack intelligence but show due diligence and state why and not generalise about a generalisation. A very accurate generalisation on my behalf I might add.

Bloody Mexican logic! I did not state all Australians are one eyed, just that some are when it comes to sport and their player/team of choice. Hence the generalisation is left to you're discretion on whom and when to classify a person as such. You're a Mexican, AFL rules Mehico, you should understand that exact thinking amongst rival AFL teams. Fans are delusional and cheer regardless, even when your squad sucks better than a $2 *****...as I said some in cycling pin all their aspirations on the great southern white hope, Cadel Evans. People just like you.

Then there are those who stretch their naivety to insane levels of fanboy love and suggest what I was referencing. As I said, must be your Mexican logic in full swing. I suggest you get out in the sun away from all the Melbourne clouds and rain and your head should clear up nice and proper.

I cannot wait for you to tell me Aussies are not like this from time to time. Australia is a sports fairing nation. Foreigners know aussies can act in the manner I described...it comes as no shock to me that you didn't see it that way, most aussies wouldn't cause they let their pride get in the road...especially when it comes to cycling lovers and Evans.

 

[Galic Ho]

He was saying that the stress would go off evans at the tour IF he won the giro because evans seems to be so stressed out during past tours. It is a sensible point but gallic is too much of an imbocile to work that out.

We have your take. Mexican logic. He said no such thing. Keenan implied in very basic language that Evans could win the Giro and then go one better. Look at the comments, people agreed with him and worse. As I said, one woman thought Evans could win the Giro and then race the Tour and find it easier. Not physically! Certainly not mentally. He's racing Contador FFS!

Imbecile is spelt with two 'E' for future reference, Galic has one 'l' as well.

Then this from Ferminal

I know what he was saying, but he implied that it might be the difference between second place and beating Alberto. We all know that's simply not true, and Keenan is smarter than that.

One person saw what I saw. What was actually written. Keenan needed to fix his language up. He contradicted himself. Considering he is in line to replace the LA running 'love in' commentary duo, much more is needed. It is the same over zealous passion that Keenan has left unbridled...just like him wetting his pants on the last lap in Mendrisio. Should I remind you that Liggett had to pull him into line....Liggett of all people. Sheesh.

SBS cycling journalists have an appalling record for writing such BS, They collectively pull it off all the time. Aussiecyclefan94, head down to Monash uni and hang with some Com students. Hang with some sports journalists and you will understand why. Most aussie sports journalists are drama queens. Why? Because sports are aussie newsreaders bread and butter. Sports are what 80% of readers flick to and never skip. Each paper/tv network has their respective sport they flog. SBS is cycling and soccer. You know this...the SBS studios are in Melbourne. Worse is that most cycling fans in Australia buy the occasional rubbish SBS spew out.

Keeping it real ain't something journos excel in. Imbecile...I'll let it slide cause I know first hand you are mistaken. That isn't your fault, but as I said, hang with those who will replace the old hands in journalism one day...they are not the brightest cookies.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Now you can understand part of why Aussiecyclefan94 seems like a nutter at times. Most Aussies lose all rational sense when their sporting heroes are in focus. Keenan had people agree with him that Evans could win the Giro and then "magically" find that he got to the Tour and it was easier than he thought and wolla, he is in yellow. There are numerous people in Australia who think it is that easy. We call them morons where I come from. Delusional fools at best.

If anyone wants the link and a good laugh let me know and I'll put it up.

you can't respect him it all. I do go for evans calling me a delusional fool is totally wrong.
From time to time aussies are bias and i do barrack for evans but when i make a point or argue about something i back it up with proof and evidence. I would be an imbocile if I didn't.

Ok gallic, you said most aussies "lose rational sense" when coming to sport and then generalised numerous aussies as being "morons".

Don't worry, I am saving these threads in my inbox and will bring them out at later dates with particular quotes from certain posters.

 

[auscyclefan94]

We have your take. Mexican logic. He said no such thing. Keenan implied in very basic language that Evans could win the Giro and then go one better. Look at the comments, people agreed with him and worse. As I said, one woman thought Evans could win the Giro and then race the Tour and find it easier. Not physically! Certainly not mentally. He's racing Contador FFS!

Imbecile is spelt with two 'E' for future reference, Galic has one 'l' as well.

Then this from Ferminal



One person saw what I saw. What was actually written. Keenan needed to fix his language up. He contradicted himself. Considering he is in line to replace the LA running 'love in' commentary duo, much more is needed. It is the same over zealous passion that Keenan has left unbridled...just like him wetting his pants on the last lap in Mendrisio. Should I remind you that Liggett had to pull him into line....Liggett of all people. Sheesh.

SBS cycling journalists have an appalling record for writing such BS, They collectively pull it off all the time. Aussiecyclefan94, head down to Monash uni and hang with some Com students. Hang with some sports journalists and you will understand why. Most aussie sports journalists are drama queens. Why? Because sports are aussie newsreaders bread and butter. Sports are what 80% of readers flick to and never skip. Each paper/tv network has their respective sport they flog. SBS is cycling and soccer. You know this...the SBS studios are in Melbourne. Worse is that most cycling fans in Australia buy the occasional rubbish SBS spew out.

Keeping it real ain't something journos excel in. Imbecile...I'll let it slide cause I know first hand you are mistaken. That isn't your fault, but as I said, hang with those who will replace the old hands in journalism one day...they are not the brightest cookies.

Are you from either Adelaide or melbourne? Just interested...

personally I hate a lot of australia's sports journalistic writings as they are just full of gossip and no substance.

 

[auscyclefan94]

your not an imbecile galic, but saying i have mexican logic is wrong. i am not stupid either and don't call matt keenan stupid either. Would have to say keenan is one of my fav cycling commentators/journo's.

I think the main point of his article was that IF evans wins the giro, he has nothing to lose at the tour this year and the pressure would be taken off him because of his prior result. Evans has seen to be very stressed at the tour and was saying hypothetically that COULD help him. That is just a hypothetical and is putting two and two together.

 

[Galic Ho]

Winning the double is a big ask? Full marks for dreaming.
Shoot for them both, lose them both.

A double attempt will end in tears on both accounts. He should aim to win the lesser event.

I'm calling it now. He will go hard for the Tour and let the Giro slide.

If in the event he doesn't let the Giro slide, he won't top 5 at the Tour. Evans ain't that good to back up. Menchov couldn't do it last year and Sastre couldn't on his 4th consecutive GT. Heck Sastre podiumed in all 3 before the Tour, Evans hasn't. No way Cadel does what those two couldn't. Cadel will be on his 4th consecutive GT when the Tour starts. He is good but he isn't better than Sastre and Menchov. They are pretty much all equal at the final time check after 3 weeks so I expect similar things will happen in respect to Evans this year. Namely something has to give. He is a good rider but expecting ridiculous miracles is asking too much of the man.

Has it occured to you Auscycle that part of Evans stress comes from his desire to impress everyone? He lacks the ability to say no, at a public level, and takes on and listens to all the hopes and beliefs of his fans. If people backed off his ****, said they expect squat from him (like I do) then maybe he can get into that frame of mind he employed in Mendrisio. You know, the one where he said there wasn't as much pressure on him because he was a big name? The reverse public expectations of the 2008 Tour, where everyone expected him to win. It should be in that book of his you bought, cause the man was spraying it on every radio program he went on last October...you posted multiple links.

If Cadel were smart he'd go for the Giro podium...realists know Sastre will drop him in the Giro in the hills. That is a guarantee. He can still get second, maybe first with a lot of luck. Then if Valverde is suspended or Caisse sit him out Cadel can turn those 2nd places at the Dauphine into a first. That would be a very good year. Then do whatever you can in the Tour without having any rest...which won't be much but maybe a stage win. BMC and any team could not ask for more. That would be stellar. Will he do this? I'm not betting on it. It isn't in his nature. You're asking the man to drop his life ambition which he stated was to win the Tour. It is akin to asking Lance to skip the Tour and ride the Giro and Vuelta. Not going to happen. Evans new team had to not be invited. Now he gets to choose. Simple psychology and history tells me right now, there is only one choice for him. Add in fatigue, rest and timing of races and that answer is almost a guarantee. The Tour and not the Giro for Evans in 2010.

Evans fans should get the Kleenex ready and some solid excuses.

 

[Galic Ho]

your not an imbecile galic, but saying i have mexican logic is wrong. i am not stupid either and don't call matt keenan stupid either. Would have to say keenan is one of my fav cycling commentators/journo's.

I think the main point of his article was that IF evans wins the giro, he has nothing to lose at the tour this year and the pressure would be taken off him because of his prior result. Evans has seen to be very stressed at the tour and was saying hypothetically that COULD help him. That is just a hypothetical and is putting two and two together.

The Mexican part was a joke. I am from NSW. What do you think us NSW folko say to the Queenslanders? Rest easy, you had the F1 last weekend, the tennis in January, the WC in October and every other good sporting event. Melbourne is the sporting capital of the world.

Stress. Check my post above. I think Evans would be better off at the Giro. But it won't release the stress of the Tour. A win or a podium at the Giro would remove stress but in a different manner. It would remove the stress of having to back up at the Tour. Cadel could turn up at the Tour after a solid Giro and be content to ride like Pellizotti had too last year when the physical strain became too much. He can't back up in both. That is asking way too much. Better to get a result at the race with the easier competition, where it is within one's grasp to win and then go for a stage or whatever you can conjure up at the later race, than go all out on the tougher one and potentially come away with little more than a top 10, top 5, maybe top 3. Aiming for the Giro will be less stressful than aiming for the Tour. Probability of winning the Giro is also much higher. Add in the Dauphine afterwards and that is respectable. Very respectable.

But from my post above...I don't think that is going to happen. Evans now has a choice. Ask yourself what you expect Cadel to do. How many actually think he will sacrifice the Tour?

Matt Keenan isn't an idiot. But his two paragraphs back to back looked silly. Everyone is prone to moments of stupidity. There is a big difference between visiting and passing through Loonyville and living there. Keenan doesn't live there. I like his commentary, but I expect commentators to be relatively neutral. Mendrisio last lap was the first time he forgot that. Normally good and reliable. His article was similar. A hiccup. Right in line with most sports journos I have met. Fun people, but comm students through and through.

 

[Galic Ho]

Are you from either Adelaide or melbourne? Just interested...

personally I hate a lot of australia's sports journalistic writings as they are just full of gossip and no substance.

You live near the F1 and MotoGP. I live near the next big thing in motor racing in Australia. It shouldn't be too hard to figure out where given I said I am from NSW.

 

[WonderLance]

Auscycle V Galic Ho

Clash of the intellectual titans.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

your not an imbecile galic, but saying i have mexican logic is wrong. i am not stupid either and don't call matt keenan stupid either. Would have to say keenan is one of my fav cycling commentators/journo's.

I think the main point of his article was that IF evans wins the giro, he has nothing to lose at the tour this year and the pressure would be taken off him because of his prior result. Evans has seen to be very stressed at the tour and was saying hypothetically that COULD help him. That is just a hypothetical and is putting two and two together.

the no pressure theory was evident on menchov last year. I think you underestimate how physically demanding the giro can be, especially for those looking to win the giro.

 

[Galic Ho]

Auscycle V Galic Ho

Clash of the intellectual titans.

Better than one between two sock puppets.

I know you secretly love Auscycle. No shame there. I promise I won't tell Lance.

 

[Galic Ho]

the no pressure theory was evident on menchov last year. I think you underestimate how physically demanding the giro can be, especially for those looking to win the giro.

That is it in simplest form. Physical recovery. The Giro is no pushover. That is why the Double is hard to come by. Only 4 riders from memory have achieved it in the last 30 years. Another Fignon, came close in 89. The Giro saps ones strength. Sure a mental advantage might be gained but that means little if your body is drained. Menchov is the most recent proof of that.

 

[tjwracer]

That is it in simplest form. Physical recovery. The Giro is no pushover. That is why the Double is hard to come by. Only 4 riders from memory have achieved it in the last 30 years. Another Fignon, came close in 89. The Giro saps ones strength. Sure a mental advantage might be gained but that means little if your body is drained. Menchov is the most recent proof of that.

But Lance did the giro and also did well at the tour so it may depend on the rider. But at the same time he wasnt on form there either so we will see. Another rider who caved last year after riding the giro was Sastre.

It all comes down to what kind of form Cadel has at the Giro and how he recovers before July but it can be done.

 

[The Sheep]

Armstrong didn't ride the Giro to win it.

 

[Nearly]

Armstrong didn't ride the Giro to win it.

May be but the broken collar bone and 3 years off may have dampened his and others' expectations (but not his apparent effort). All things considered there was little sign of him soft pedalling. I agree though that both Menchov and Sastre were a little like ghosts at the Tour.

 

[The Sheep]

Armstrong didn't win the tour or did well at the giro so he isn't really a good example that you can win both.