Oscar Pistorius

[Tricycle Rider]

I can't see OP avoiding some jail time, and I don't see how his career and his endorsements can continue after this. He may not get what a lot of people think he deserves, but I think he will pay considerably for this.

While not outright dumping OP Nike has suspended his contract for the time being. (I guess they're hoping he'll somehow come out looking innocent and they'll reinstate the contract?)

http://espn.go.com/olympics/trackandfield/story/_/id/8969745/nike-suspends-contract-oscar-pistorius

 

[leftover pie]

He's out!

I was going to say lock your doors ladies, but I don't think it will do you any good.

laugh!

 

[Cerberus]

While not outright dumping OP Nike has suspended his contract for the time being. (I guess they're hoping he'll somehow come out looking innocent and they'll reinstate the contract?)

http://espn.go.com/olympics/trackandfield/story/_/id/8969745/nike-suspends-contract-oscar-pistorius

I doubt that, bet he can hope for is coming out like some bat**** crazy guy who shots at anything that moves, but didn't intend to kill his girlfriend. I think Nike just don't want to be seen as judging him before he's convicted.

 

[blackcat]

The Desmond Nair could be Rob Oakeshott's twin brother the amount of time he is taking.

quoted for genius.

but does he have the high opinion of himself too?

 

[alitogata]

This may seem like a victory for the defense, but I believe the prosecution, by charging premeditated murder, won something critical. Pistorius was forced to provide that affidavit, which really pins him down. He can't change his story now. As has been well discussed here, there are a lot of very difficult things for him to explain.

Given more time, OP's team probably could have constructed a story that made a little more sense (e.g., didn't scream at the intruder because didn't want the latter to know he was awake and coming for him; felt the bed very quickly and thought she was there, but it turned out to be bunched up covers). Now the phoniness of the story is out there for everyone to see.

I can't see OP avoiding some jail time, and I don't see how his career and his endorsements can continue after this. He may not get what a lot of people think he deserves, but I think he will pay considerably for this.

How can a murder like this be premeditated? I mean that his story is giving him no alibi ...it just destroys his career and life in every level. Someone who commits such a crime with such a way,is obviously stupid. He is loosing so much more than the things that he could gain.

 

[Cerberus]

How can a murder like this be premeditated? I mean that his story is giving him no alibi ...it just destroys his career and life in every level. Someone who commits such a crime with such a way,is obviously stupid. He is loosing so much more than the things that he could gain.

Premeditated doesn't necessarily mean planned out meticulously months in advance, it can, or at least the prosecution argues it can, mean that he planned it for long enough to put on his legs and then did it.

 

[alitogata]

Premeditated doesn't necessarily mean planned out meticulously months in advance, it can, or at least the prosecution argues it can, mean that he planned it for long enough to put on his legs and then did it.

He could do it without putting his legs on..wouldn't then be any suspicion of premeditation?
For me the whole story, as we know it, makes no sense. That is the reason why I don't want to say if he is guilty as regards the premeditation or not. He killed her, that is beyond any doubt, but if he did it in purpose with this way, he is stupid beyond any doubt as well...

As for his defense, for me it would be more reasonable to say that he killed her because they had a quarrel about her ex boyfriend and told him to split.. this sounds more extenuating than what he claims.

 

[Cloxxki]

He could do it without putting his legs on..wouldn't then be any suspicion of premeditation?
For me the whole story, as we know it, makes no sense. That is the reason why I don't want to say if he is guilty as regards the premeditation or not. He killed her, that is beyond any doubt, but if he did it in purpose with this way, he is stupid beyond any doubt as well...

As for his defense, for me it would be more reasonable to say that he killed her because they had a quarrel about her ex boyfriend and told him to split.. this sounds more extenuating than what he claims.

I can totally see someone holding a grudge, even against a lovely as this. Saying to himself when again he gets fed up over something she did or didn't "I'm going to kill that b* some day...". Long and often enough to get comfortable with it. And in a moment of rage (roid or otherwise), come back to that phrase, and for a few seconds commit to that, long enough to take an innocent life.
Since he didn't even try to blame the victim or mention too much of marital difficulties (his lawyers will have warned him about the consequences), there is a way to sneak out of premeditated.
Sick minds exist. Give them guns, and they'll shoot, one time or another. We can't be soft about that.
In my country, you are supposed to be screened before receiving gun sports licence. Since there had been police visits to the house for domestic violence/unrest, IMO his gun possession should be illegal. We call that tieing the cat to the bacon. Violence+guns=blood shed. Simple as that. You're lucky to die of old age with that combination present. The odds are not so great.
From reports, the guy has a lot of anger issues. Let's get the next guy with anger issues with his loved ones, and see if he has guns? Are we all comfortable with that situation?

 

[Benotti69]

Premeditation is picking up a gun with the intent to kill. 4 bullets is rubber stamping that.

Has anyone put forward a reason as to why a burgular would be in the bathroom?

1 bullet shell outside toilet 3 inside. No warning shot fired...

 

[Cloxxki]

1 bullet shell outside toilet 3 inside. No warning shot fired...

I missed that info thus far.
If true, why is there any discussion about anything?

 

[Benotti69]

I missed that info thus far.
If true, why is there any discussion about anything?

Because Pistorious got a good lawyer and the cops are idiots.

 

[Tom375]

Premeditation is picking up a gun with the intent to kill. 4 bullets is rubber stamping that.

Has anyone put forward a reason as to why a burgular would be in the bathroom?

1 bullet shell outside toilet 3 inside. No warning shot fired...

err ..Needed a slash/dump...
wanted to brush his teeth..
Toilitery thief..
Peeping Tom...
dunno..

I think the angle Pistorius legal team are shooting at is this:

Bathroom window open, workman's ladders left outside (although not directly underneath the window), this would have been the point of entry for Billy the burgalar. OP disturbed him so he hid in the toilet rather than try and escape back out the window. Billy the burgalar was obviously thinking that if he sat in the toilet and said "occupado" when OP came in no-one would bother him as long as he flushed.

 

[Tom375]

Because Pistorious got a good lawyer and the cops are idiots.

Seems to sum up the situation concisely so far. I'd add though in the Prosecution's favour the Defence has been forced to show some of its hand earlier (with sworn affadvitt etc.) Prosecution has plenty of time to pick through the defence before the trial.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Premeditation is picking up a gun with the intent to kill. 4 bullets is rubber stamping that.

Has anyone put forward a reason as to why a burgular would be in the bathroom?

1 bullet shell outside toilet 3 inside. No warning shot fired...

This pretty much says it.
What burglar runs into the wc and locks the door? He would escape out the open window,no?

Also, remember that they found her fully clothed. ...she runs into the bathroom for a quick pee and got dressed in the short time he got the fan and closed the door?

 

[Cloxxki]

This pretty much says it.
What burglar runs into the wc and locks the door? He would escape out the open window,no?

Also, remember that they found her fully clothed. ...she runs into the bathroom for a quick pee and got dressed in the short time he got the fan and closed the door?

I wonder how thorough the coroner was. If she was really in the toilet for typical reasons, that should be something they'd be able to confirm or rule out.
If Pistorius' specific claims came too late (after cremation), that just works into his hands. Perhaps that's why the best he came up with is something hard for forensics to work with?
That said, lying in your affidavit should if ruled untruthful, may not be good for the punishment you get. And insulting the court's intelligence.
I kind of hope someone else mistakes OP for a creepy alien, seeing his shadow on blades from around the corner, and then not ask questions. Who'd ask an alien intruder questions now your honor? In contact with an alien ever force is by definition self defense. I'm sorry I hurt someone, but I am innocent of hurting a human, it was unintensional.
With burglars, in some countries it's OK to kill them (not where I live). Aliens, who can not imagine the mistake or action taken?

 

[Tom375]

I wonder how thorough the coroner was. If she was really in the toilet for typical reasons, that should be something they'd be able to confirm or rule out.shnip..

Coroner (or equivalent) confirmed bladder was empty at the time of shooting consistent with OP's version she had a wee. However judge also rightly pointed out that there could be a host of other explanations and it didn't necessarily mean that OP's version of events was true.

 

[Cloxxki]

Coroner (or equivalent) confirmed bladder was empty at the time of shooting consistent with OP's version she had a wee. However judge also rightly pointed out that there could be a host of other explanations and it didn't necessarily mean that OP's version of events was true.

Thanks. I was actually thinking of fresh urine traces rather than empty bladder. But suppose that by the time the coroner gets there, that cannot be easily determined anymore.
Was fully clothed precisely explained? Who dresses to go to the toilet, even with a mild draft in the house?
Oh, well, too lazy to read lies in detail. I couldn't bring myself to see Oprah either.

 

[alitogata]

Because Pistorious got a good lawyer and the cops are idiots.

Or because Pistorious is rich, white, famous (and male) in South Africa ( this goes to rich and white) living in Pretoria. ( this goes to the illegal gun possession).

 

[veganrob]

Thanks. I was actually thinking of fresh urine traces rather than empty bladder. But suppose that by the time the coroner gets there, that cannot be easily determined anymore.
Was fully clothed precisely explained? Who dresses to go to the toilet, even with a mild draft in the house?
Oh, well, too lazy to read lies in detail. I couldn't bring myself to see Oprah either.

What I was thinking also. Was she fully clothed? So getting ready to leave after the fight and OP is angry and kills her.
And why the heck did he carry her downstairs?
There are so many holes in his alibis'.

 

[Elagabalus]

This pretty much says it.
What burglar runs into the wc and locks the door? He would escape out the open window,no?

Also, remember that they found her fully clothed. ...she runs into the bathroom for a quick pee and got dressed in the short time he got the fan and closed the door?

Actually, mew, if he didn't have his prosthetics on getting that fan from the balcony might have been a rather clumsy affair (and taken more time). I don't know how he gets around when on his stumps and if he has to use his hands but how does he hold the fan and move at the same time?

 

[Elagabalus]

What I was thinking also. Was she fully clothed? So getting ready to leave after the fight and OP is angry and kills her.
And why the heck did he carry her downstairs?
There are so many holes in his alibis'.

I think mewmewmew 13 and Thirteen touched on this earlier. There might be some discrepancy by what they mean as "fully clothed" i.e. she didn't seem to be in the middle of relieving herself and everything was properly zipped up but she could still be wearing something for sleeping.

He carried her downstairs because she hadn't expired yet and the security guard was coming up the road to his house.

 

[veganrob]

I think mewmewmew 13 and Thirteen touched on this earlier. There might be some discrepancy by what they mean as "fully clothed" i.e. she didn't seem to be in the middle of relieving herself and everything was properly zipped up but she could still be wearing something for sleeping.

He carried her downstairs because she hadn't expired yet and the security guard was coming up the road to his house.

Thanks Elagabalus. But doesn't everyone know you should not move a critically hurt person unless absolutely necessary. Really what is the security guard going to do. She needed an ambulance.
Or really a priest at that point.

 

[Mad Elephant Man]

Thanks. I was actually thinking of fresh urine traces rather than empty bladder. But suppose that by the time the coroner gets there, that cannot be easily determined anymore.
Was fully clothed precisely explained? Who dresses to go to the toilet, even with a mild draft in the house?
Oh, well, too lazy to read lies in detail. I couldn't bring myself to see Oprah either.

Maybe there was enough time for her to finish what she went there to do and pull up her pants or whatever before she was shot. Or maybe he got there right after her and she had not had time to pull down her pants.
Or maybe she was hiding and did not go at all.

 

[Mad Elephant Man]

Actually, mew, if he didn't have his prosthetics on getting that fan from the balcony might have been a rather clumsy affair (and taken more time). I don't know how he gets around when on his stumps and if he has to use his hands but how does he hold the fan and move at the same time?

I suggested earlier in the thread that it might be worth examining whether he could do what he claimed to be doing out on the balcony without wearing his prosthetic legs. It would be a big blow to his story if it was proved he could not carry the fan, or reach the blinds to close them or something like that.

 

[Elagabalus]

I suggested earlier in the thread that it might be worth examining whether he could do what he claimed to be doing out on the balcony without wearing his prosthetic legs. It would be a big blow to his story if it was proved he could not carry the fan, or reach the blinds to close them or something like that.

I'm not sure the prosecution can afford it.

But I'm sure the defense will be hiring their own team of experts.