Pat McQuaid is a dxxk !!!!!

[barn yard]

i dont think there is any animosity

there are silly statements getting around like 'we are entitled to a minimum wage' well unfortunately there is way more to it than that... the chicken and egg situation as mentioned earlier.

i would love to see cycling becoming so popular that women's racing can be at the same level as women's tennis. but you can't just copy the tennis business model, the sports are too different.

and re the 'good' womens races... yes there have been a lot. they are not covered like the worlds was though, with worldwide live coverage for the whole thing - every second of racing from start to finish. women's cycling as a whole dropped the ball on the biggest stage, and unfortunately people forget the '5 good races' when there is one giant embarrasment.

anyway it pains me to say it but at the moment pat is 100% right and we have a long long way to go before women's cycling is at a level that warrants a minimum wage.

 

[ultimobici]

Men's cycling is borderline uneconomic.

How do you come to that conclusion?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

They didn't cover the 2008 or 2009 Worlds, which were good races?

Accepted on the others (I can't recall if there was any great length of live coverage of the Olympic RR), but things have been improving in that respect; the 15-minute Giro Donne summaries have been increased to 30 and now to 45 minutes a day, so something must be going right on that front.

The women may have "dropped the ball" on the 2011 Worlds, but that wasn't the fault of women's cycling. If somebody had never seen men's cycling before and tuned in for more than the last 15 minutes of that race they wouldn't watch again either. The race was woeful, but a large part of that was not the fault of the riders. It was a parcours which made hard racing nigh on impossible. They were on a hiding to nothing there.

 

[sublimit]

Yep, hes a duck alright.

It would be neat if he was a duck, I'd encourage him to fly across France from Switzerland and hope he gets shot by a trigger happy French bird hunter.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

It would be neat if he was a duck, I'd encourage him to fly across France from Switzerland and hope he gets shot by a trigger happy French bird hunter.

Sometimes ducks are even less moral than Pat McQuaid

 

[sublimit]

Sometimes ducks are even less moral than Pat McQuaid

Surreal stuff.. Enjoyed that.

Stewart Lee looks so much like Darren Clarke but a lot funnier to be fair.

 

[doolols]

I so love Stuart Lee. I hadn't seen that before.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

The D**K would have flunked my college sociology class.

 

[Freddythefrog]

i dont think there is any animosity

.......anyway it pains me to say it but at the moment pat is 100% right and we have a long long way to go before women's cycling is at a level that warrants a minimum wage.

Well at least the debate is taking place often even if at times it remains rooted in the ridiculous. barnyard - what is the definition of the term "minimum wage"?
Is it:
a) A notional imposition of some bureaucratic regime that does not understand "real-World" economics. Sort of like "Employee insurance" and "health care insurance". The sort of things that are best avoided by "cash in hand".
or b) an aspirational threshold. Anyone whose remuneration exceeds this will be taken seriously by those who deserve the vote. Those earning less can still pay purchase taxes on anything they use their pittance to buy. They will still pay taxes on their pittance of an income, but this is the wage of the underclass. They must be crippled or have something wrong with them, like being a spastic or being the wrong colour. Previously this was the type of wage earned by those whose ethnic origins opened themselves up to victimisation.
or c) the lowest wage any employer contemplating any activity must pay to anybody regardless of skin colour, gender or race, if they are to ask them to undertake any activity at their behest. It is enshrined in law by the democratic governments of various countries.

I am a little confused and need a little help here. Barnyard - Libertine picked you up on the nature of your focus on only ONE of two equally rubbish races that took place in Copenhagen this year, you used to illuminate your prejudice. You need to understand that Libertine could not have been more polite. Because, attitudes of the type you display and displayed by Pat, women's cycling is not moving forward it is going backwards. As discussed on other threads, the women's MSR has gone. The women's Amstel has gone. The year the women's Amstel went the Mayor in the finish town was blathering on how that year, at last they had provided "access for all" and weren't they to be patted on the back for such wonderful sense of public spirit and progress. What the mayor really meant was they had put in a few spectator points that provided wheelchair access. So far so good.

I wonder what the attitude of the Mayor would have been like,
if,
the Mayor had been told,
as the Mayor went to greet the winner,
that the Mayor had to take off chain, hat and other garb,
and,
hand back all remuneration for work given that year,
and step aside and let a proper person represent the human race - oh and of course that means "no girlies" so just go and take your handbag and watch from over there sweetheart.

Because the Mayor was a woman and women don't count - they could no longer race at the Amstel Gold. Some "Progress". Some "Access for all".

 

[boomcie]

Can the mods please add the name McQuaid to the wordfilter? This topic is offensive.

 

[ElChingon]

The thread is more bringing attention to the fact that even athletes are taking against mcquaid, rather than just dumping on him.

Look who's wearing a DAOTEC shoe now

 

[Polyarmour]

By the way, am I the only one here who didn't think the 2011 Women's World Road race was rubbish? Clara Hughes nearly pulled off the upset of the tournament with her solo breakaway from 28km out. It had me on the edge of my seat for the last half hour.

 

[Siriuscat]

Whatever the semantics surrounding womens racing the key point for me is that she's the first CURRENT rider MALE OR FEMALE to shout openly about McQuaid, I haven't heard anyone else use a stage win press conference to attack the UCI pres about any of the issues affecting cycling......good on her!

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

By the way, am I the only one here who didn't think the 2011 Women's World Road race was rubbish? Clara Hughes nearly pulled off the upset of the tournament with her solo breakaway from 28km out. It had me on the edge of my seat for the last half hour.

Didn't watch it.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Didn't watch it.

In fact, being a little glib has made me ponder (often dangerous).

The arguments made for women's sport is that although the standard is objectively lower, the level of competition and uncertainty is similar, so it is still interesting to watch.

Now, I can't speak for anyone else, but I watch professional sport to see exceptional performance. If I wanted uncertainty, I could watch almost any sporting contest at any level of competance, as long as it was properly seeded.

The only viable argument for the promotion of women's cycling is a misunderstanding of equality to mean mathematical identity. It's not something I subscribe so, and so, for that reason, I am out.

 

[The Hitch]

Look who's wearing a DAOTEC shoe now

Who? I was rightfully wearing it in the case of Valverde since I had DAOTEC'd you by creating the thread first.

Here I am neither doing nor receiving the Daotecing since I have not created any Mcquaid threads.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

In fact, being a little glib has made me ponder (often dangerous).

The arguments made for women's sport is that although the standard is objectively lower, the level of competition and uncertainty is similar, so it is still interesting to watch.

Now, I can't speak for anyone else, but I watch professional sport to see exceptional performance. If I wanted uncertainty, I could watch almost any sporting contest at any level of competance, as long as it was properly seeded.

The only viable argument for the promotion of women's cycling is a misunderstanding of equality to mean mathematical identity. It's not something I subscribe so, and so, for that reason, I am out.

I think the thing is that some people want to watch the best, some people want to watch a close fight. It's like the argument I keep having with Amsterhammer in the football thread, because I dislike Barcelona because their quality is so high that most games descend into walkovers, while he thinks it's great to watch, because they play amazing football. Neither view is wrong per se, they're just incompatible.

I watch women's biathlon just as fervently as the men's - the courses may be shorter, but the competition is equally open. There are a couple of things women's biathlon (and other women's sports seen equally as the men's like tennis, athletics and so on, but I'm using biathlon as the example since it's the one I follow most closely) has that women's cycling does not, however:
1) the presentation of the event is equal to that of the men; the events are coterminous and the women do not have to make do with lesser coverage; women's cycling, except at the World championships, even in the bigger races that are covered, goes without helicopter coverage and is presented more amateurishly, which only exacerbates the comparison with the more slick men's product;
2) that there is so much women's biathlon televised - as much as men's - means that there is no tendency to compare the two products; Tarjei Bø is obviously a faster skier than Magdalena Neuner, but nobody judges Neuner relative to Bø, they judge each against their own competition, and so their achievements are given equal weighting.

 

[Polyarmour]

Now, I can't speak for anyone else, but I watch professional sport to see exceptional performance. If I wanted uncertainty, I could watch almost any sporting contest at any level of competance, as long as it was properly seeded.

The only viable argument for the promotion of women's cycling is a misunderstanding of equality to mean mathematical identity. It's not something I subscribe so, and so, for that reason, I am out.

You ARE watching exceptional performance. You are watching the best women in the world.

Using your logic you would never watch women doing anything?

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

You ARE watching exceptional performance. You are watching the best women in the world.

Using your logic you would never watch women doing anything?

I didn't realise it was that sort of website...

Smut aside, your statement seems to suggest women are 2nd rate at everything, which is pretty disgraceful, and pretty obviously incorrect.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

I think the thing is that some people want to watch the best, some people want to watch a close fight. It's like the argument I keep having with Amsterhammer in the football thread, because I dislike Barcelona because their quality is so high that most games descend into walkovers, while he thinks it's great to watch, because they play amazing football. Neither view is wrong per se, they're just incompatible.

I watch women's biathlon just as fervently as the men's - the courses may be shorter, but the competition is equally open. There are a couple of things women's biathlon (and other women's sports seen equally as the men's like tennis, athletics and so on, but I'm using biathlon as the example since it's the one I follow most closely) has that women's cycling does not, however:
1) the presentation of the event is equal to that of the men; the events are coterminous and the women do not have to make do with lesser coverage; women's cycling, except at the World championships, even in the bigger races that are covered, goes without helicopter coverage and is presented more amateurishly, which only exacerbates the comparison with the more slick men's product;
2) that there is so much women's biathlon televised - as much as men's - means that there is no tendency to compare the two products; Tarjei Bø is obviously a faster skier than Magdalena Neuner, but nobody judges Neuner relative to Bø, they judge each against their own competition, and so their achievements are given equal weighting.

I can't see anything in there which makes 1 iota of an argument for professionalising women's sport. That would just improve the competition Barcelona style.

Not sure it addresses my position either, which is that if I wanted a closely matched competition I could select almost any level of competition between beginners and superstars - I'm not sure what special claim women's sport has on my attention. Frankly watching kids football in the park would give me more uncertain and competitive viewing than the Miss Vos show.

 

[boomcie]

It's like the argument I keep having with Amsterhammer in the football thread, because I dislike Barcelona because their quality is so high that most games descend into walkovers, while he thinks it's great to watch, because they play amazing football. Neither view is wrong per se, they're just incompatible.

I need to get into that horrible football thread. Firstly because I dislike Barcelona for exactly the same reason and secondly because of Amsterhammer.

2) Magdalena Neuner

Good argument. I like watching her too.

 

[boomcie]

2) that there is so much women's biathlon televised - as much as men's - means that there is no tendency to compare the two products; Tarjei Bø is obviously a faster skier than Magdalena Neuner, but nobody judges Neuner relative to Bø, they judge each against their own competition, and so their achievements are given equal weighting.

On a more serious note:

Women's tennis is televised as much as men's tennis, but still a lot of people compare the two circuits and criticize the women for being fat, lazy and overpaid. So your argument isn't exactly bullet proof.

It's actually always been a hot topic and it remains so.

 

[Night Rider]

By the way, am I the only one here who didn't think the 2011 Women's World Road race was rubbish? Clara Hughes nearly pulled off the upset of the tournament with her solo breakaway from 28km out. It had me on the edge of my seat for the last half hour.

I didn't ever think that break would stick, too many teams wanting it to end in the forgone conclusion of the sprint finish. Look, the women's race was pretty bad, but the men's race wasn't exactly the race of the century either. That course was an absolute shocker.

I think Pat is a tosser as well, if I was trying to advance a cause though I don't think the best course of action would be to get up on the podium and say what she said. Each to their own though.

 

[Maxiton]

"I have to apologise for how I phrased my comments, I wasn't that eloquent," said Hosking

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/hosking-to-apologize-for-remarks-to-mcquaid

Gee, I didn't see that one coming.

 

[Polyarmour]

I didn't realise it was that sort of website...

Smut aside, your statement seems to suggest women are 2nd rate at everything, which is pretty disgraceful, and pretty obviously incorrect.

Err, not so fast hypocrite. I think if you read my posts you can see I am a SUPPORTER of womens cycling. I think anyone reading your posts will see that you aren't. Why? Because you don't believe their performances are as good as mens and therefore are not worth watching. You said as much in a previous post.