Pereiro goes berserk

[GotDropped]

Another pet peeve of mine and this isn't a personal attack. Just so you and hopefully anyone else may be informed.

The UCI is not interested in ACTUALLY having dope-free fields. They need the appearance of a strong doping program, but *MANY* simple facts surrounding their doping practices lead one to the conclusion very little has changed.

I think many would agree that the TdF in 2011 was cleaner/slower. There are too many other dope-reminiscent race performances in 2011 to suggest the cleanliness extended to other events. 2012?/13? will go faster again as UCI assumes control of all testing for all cycling federations.

Whether it is now cleaner or not, whether or not the UCI is interested in it being cleaner, the truth of the matter is if you wanted to dope in cycling, it would be a lot harder than in lets say european football where they don't have the vampires, the same level of testing, the whereabouts system, a biological passport etc... If you were a clean cyclist, and if you were doing everything by the book, you should be extremely pleased with all these meassures, and not ****ed off that other sports don't have them also. You should be saying, hey, cycling is great now, it is much harder for the cheats to get away with it. Football should do the same as us, then maybe less guys will die on the football field in the middle of the game as they have done in the last couple of years.

A couple of links:
http://www.elconfidencial.com/cache/2009/08/10/deportes_34_jarque_fallecimiento_espanyol.html

http://www.as.com/futbol/articulo/ano-muerte-subita-cobra-vida/20100531dasdasftb_49/Tes

This is translated from the Spanish wiki page (OK, there are a lot of unrelated deaths, but a lot of heart attacks during a game also):
http://translate.google.es/translat...xo:Futbolistas_fallecidos_en_competici%C3%B3n

 

[fatandfast]

Pro Cycling is the CrackHead DrugAddict Panhandler of ProSports.
It is true. You know it is true.
Sure, some cycling teams are tryng to go straight.
That is commendable. Other sports don't have "clean teams".

And it is true when the crackhead points to the other professions and says "you guys do drugs too!"

Yes, that is true.
But cycling is still the crackhead drugaddict panhandler of sports.
That does not change.

It could change though. A few more years of clean Giro's, TdF's, and AToC's and cycling could become a productive member of the pro sport society again.

I think you may need to do more research on crackhead sports. Handball, Bowling, non-NFL football, non PGA pro golf, half dozen types of pro equestrian sports,professional fishing and hunting, professional eating,boxing,arm wrestling, non NBA pro basketball, pro baseball at half a dozen levels, don't forget rodeo and lots of other pro sports that are all kicking and getting kicked for inferior amounts of money.

Cycling is hardly the bottom of anything. Skateboarding and surfing also have a pretty pitiful amount of wages offered to the non elite.
Big difference that I see is that the UCI is the absolute worst organizer of cycling from the bottom to the top. If they tried just working the bottom or the top it may be more successful. The tools and managers needed to promote and keep the BMX wheels spinning w venues,championships and Olympic trials are not the same tools and skills that can control the likes of a Contador , Armstrong or Ullrich. The UCI is winging it. The UCI is like an American telephone company, still has customers, still has revenues but some people holding a smartphone could never see themselves as a copper customer.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Whether it is now cleaner or not, whether or not the UCI is interested in it being cleaner, the truth of the matter is if you wanted to dope in cycling, it would be a lot harder than in lets say european football where they don't have the vampires, the same level of testing, the whereabouts system, a biological passport etc... If you were a clean cyclist, and if you were doing everything by the book, you should be extremely pleased with all these meassures, and not ****ed off that other sports don't have them also. You should be saying, hey, cycling is great now, it is much harder for the cheats to get away with it. Football should do the same as us, then maybe less guys will die on the football field in the middle of the game as they have done in the last couple of years.

Maybe, just maybe, Pereiro IS happy enough with it. Maybe he'd been riding clean the last two years of his career; his results certainly wouldn't indicate any doping, and apart from a stage or two of the Volta a Catalunya he really didn't stand out at all. In the 2009 Tour he couldn't even hang on to the péloton half the time.

Maybe when talking amongst people who have half a brain cell between them, he's happy to acknowledge the problems and happy with what cycling has done to prevent doping. He's achieved all he ever could do in the sport anyway.

But maybe, going on a show where people from a sport that does absolutely nothing about doping are sitting there and laughing at him for being part of a sport that does, led to an atmosphere he was not "happy" with? He couldn't exactly sit there with pride and talk up cycling's achievements, with them tearing it down and laughing at it. Going on the offensive was the only way to make his opinion heard, and I commend him for doing it.

Did he say everything he could have said? No. Did he say everything he should have said? No. But he didn't just sit there and take the abuse of those hypocrites. Maybe some others can follow his lead, but ones who aren't so intrinsically tied to the bad old days. Maybe then the truth will come out. But don't fault Pereiro for not doing the "right" sell job on how cycling's treating doping in the heat of the moment. Because there's not a lot he said that wasn't absolutely right. Ironically, one of the only things he said that wasn't factual was that he'd never tested positive, as has been covered earlier in the thread.

I think the problem is, you're asking more from Pereiro than he can possibly realistically give here. And certainly more than he can give on a show like Punto Pelota where his points will be roundly ignored or shouted down unless he gets aggressive. But he's given us something, and that's a lot more than nothing.

 

[Le breton]

...........
I think the problem is, you're asking more from Pereiro than he can possibly realistically give here. And certainly more than he can give on a show like Punto Pelota where his points will be roundly ignored or shouted down unless he gets aggressive. But he's given us something, and that's a lot more than nothing.

Good post!

 

[henryg]

That was classic! He really laid into the grey haired jerk.

 

[Andynonomous]

A blogger who agrees that cycling is getting the short end of the stick.

 

[GotDropped]

Maybe, just maybe, Pereiro IS happy enough with it. Maybe he'd been riding clean the last two years of his career; his results certainly wouldn't indicate any doping, and apart from a stage or two of the Volta a Catalunya he really didn't stand out at all. In the 2009 Tour he couldn't even hang on to the péloton half the time.

Maybe when talking amongst people who have half a brain cell between them, he's happy to acknowledge the problems and happy with what cycling has done to prevent doping. He's achieved all he ever could do in the sport anyway.

But maybe, going on a show where people from a sport that does absolutely nothing about doping are sitting there and laughing at him for being part of a sport that does, led to an atmosphere he was not "happy" with? He couldn't exactly sit there with pride and talk up cycling's achievements, with them tearing it down and laughing at it. Going on the offensive was the only way to make his opinion heard, and I commend him for doing it.

Did he say everything he could have said? No. Did he say everything he should have said? No. But he didn't just sit there and take the abuse of those hypocrites. Maybe some others can follow his lead, but ones who aren't so intrinsically tied to the bad old days. Maybe then the truth will come out. But don't fault Pereiro for not doing the "right" sell job on how cycling's treating doping in the heat of the moment. Because there's not a lot he said that wasn't absolutely right. Ironically, one of the only things he said that wasn't factual was that he'd never tested positive, as has been covered earlier in the thread.

I think the problem is, you're asking more from Pereiro than he can possibly realistically give here. And certainly more than he can give on a show like Punto Pelota where his points will be roundly ignored or shouted down unless he gets aggressive. But he's given us something, and that's a lot more than nothing.

I totally agree with you. I actually think we have the very same opinion, in that you also think Pereiro isn't being very truthful with his arguments. He is complaining about the very same system that has protected him (with his positive etc...). I called it hypocritical, you probably think it isn't that bad, in any case I agree with you.

 

[Paco_P]

What's it worth? No one really considers him the winner anyway.

For what it's worth, I think Perreiro among them.

 

[Mellow Velo]

I know this has been posted in the Yannick Noah thread, but I find it absolutely appropriate to post the same link here, given that these are the guys Pereiro was talking about.
Yes it's those old OP boys, Nadal and the Barca coach, Guardiola, blasting Noah for his comments upon the Spanish doping state:
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/nadal-l...-noahs-doping-allegations-20111122-1nrd6.html

Maybe it's time to lay off the messenger and concentrate on the bigger picture?

 

[Caruut]

I was thinking that Pep Guardiola was awfully brave to stick his neck out like that - didn't he test positive? Especially since the current Barca side are the stylistic successors of the side he played in, having departed somewhat for a few years. It seems to me that the proof that there is some form of government protection is simple - if we knew what was in the OP files, we'd know the names of a lot who cheated. But the Spanish government won't hand over the OP files. Therefore, they are protecting those who cheated. We have no idea who they're protecting, but we know they must be protecting someone.

Fuentes himself said he'd been threatened with death 3 times warning him away from naming the footballers that he'd treated. By not going out of their way to protect him, the Spanish authorities are again restricting the number of ways these cheats can be found out.

For the record, I have no particular beef on the Spaniards - they just happen to be the ones that evidence is lying with now. The Italians, 15 years ago, were just as bad, I'm sure, but they had a painful few years (for cycling at least, football rumbles on, it seems) and seem to be coming out of it for the better. Italy pursued and took down Pantani, and he was bigger to them than Contador is to the Spanish, yet the Spanish authorities protect him.

If someone came in the the evidence of an Operation Port conducted in my country, the UK, I'd be equally as damning. Likewise I'm sure there are other countries in which OP would never even have been started, let alone have to be stopped.

To the poster who claimed that Spanish success was down to the "motivational boost" provided by other Spanish athletes winning, I really think you ought to ask yourself whether you really believe that, or whether you just want to believe it.

 

[Caruut]

From MV's article above, Jo-Wilfred Tsonga (French #1) is quoted as saying:

"It would be nice to have some proof. For the moment, what he said is completely false because no proof exists."

Which the writer seems to portray as being critical of YN. Is it really though? I mean, as a professional, it seems there's a limited amount that you can really say. He seems to be sailing quite close to censure.

 

[Mellow Velo]

I was thinking that Pep Guardiola was awfully brave to stick his neck out like that - didn't he test positive? Especially since the current Barca side are the stylistic successors of the side he played in, having departed somewhat for a few years. It seems to me that the proof that there is some form of government protection is simple - if we knew what was in the OP files, we'd know the names of a lot who cheated. But the Spanish government won't hand over the OP files. Therefore, they are protecting those who cheated. We have no idea who they're protecting, but we know they must be protecting someone.

Fuentes himself said he'd been threatened with death 3 times warning him away from naming the footballers that he'd treated. By not going out of their way to protect him, the Spanish authorities are again restricting the number of ways these cheats can be found out.

Indeed:
http://www.ergogenics.org/484.html

 

[Albatros]

I was thinking that Pep Guardiola was awfully brave to stick his neck out like that - didn't he test positive? Especially since the current Barca side are the stylistic successors of the side he played in, having departed somewhat for a few years. It seems to me that the proof that there is some form of government protection is simple - if we knew what was in the OP files, we'd know the names of a lot who cheated. But the Spanish government won't hand over the OP files. Therefore, they are protecting those who cheated. We have no idea who they're protecting, but we know they must be protecting someone.

Fuentes himself said he'd been threatened with death 3 times warning him away from naming the footballers that he'd treated. By not going out of their way to protect him, the Spanish authorities are again restricting the number of ways these cheats can be found out.

For the record, I have no particular beef on the Spaniards - they just happen to be the ones that evidence is lying with now. The Italians, 15 years ago, were just as bad, I'm sure, but they had a painful few years (for cycling at least, football rumbles on, it seems) and seem to be coming out of it for the better. Italy pursued and took down Pantani, and he was bigger to them than Contador is to the Spanish, yet the Spanish authorities protect him.

If someone came in the the evidence of an Operation Port conducted in my country, the UK, I'd be equally as damning. Likewise I'm sure there are other countries in which OP would never even have been started, let alone have to be stopped.

To the poster who claimed that Spanish success was down to the "motivational boost" provided by other Spanish athletes winning, I really think you ought to ask yourself whether you really believe that, or whether you just want to believe it.

Fuentes had an offer from FC Barcelona twice. That is well documented. Real MAdrid used to send their urine samples to MArcos Maynar, Jesus Losa was linked to the Real Sociedad team that came second in the Spanish league in the galacticos era. Le Monde disclosed documents written by Eufemiano Fuentes with preparation plans for Real Madrid, Barcelona, Valencia and Betis. Sabino Padilla was the team doctor of Athletico Bilbao. Manzano saw famous players going into Eufemiano's clinic.

Spanish Champions League teams are in the middle of the peloton when it comes to distance covered.
http://www.uefa.com/uefa/mediaservices/presskits/index.html

TS PDF.

You connect the dots and again, like in cycling, a very bleak picture emerges.

 

[The Hitch]

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/nadal-l...-noahs-doping-allegations-20111122-1nrd6.html

The article doesnt even mention Guardiolas failed drugs test.

What a disgrace.

 

[Caruut]

Fuentes had an offer from FC Barcelona twice. That is well documented. Real MAdrid used to send their urine samples to MArcos Maynar, Jesus Losa was linked to the Real Sociedad team that came second in the Spanish league in the galacticos era. Le Monde disclosed documents written by Eufemiano Fuentes with preparation plans for Real Madrid, Barcelona, Valencia and Betis. Sabino Padilla was the team doctor of Athletico Bilbao. Manzano saw famous players going into Eufemiano's clinic.

Spanish Champions League teams are in the middle of the peloton when it comes to distance covered.
http://www.uefa.com/uefa/mediaservices/presskits/index.html

TS PDF.

You connect the dots and again, like in cycling, a very bleak picture emerges.

Distance covered can be misleading - what wears you down in football is repeated short accelerations, which are crucial to the Spanish game. Running a 10k in 90 minutes isn't exactly groundbreaking, it's the way you do it which takes it out of you.

 

[Albatros]

Distance covered can be misleading - what wears you down in football is repeated short accelerations, which are crucial to the Spanish game. Running a 10k in 90 minutes isn't exactly groundbreaking, it's the way you do it which takes it out of you.

Well, if a team covers, let's say 120 kms per game (there are such teams) and another team covers 110 and let's assume at a higher intensity, then team A are running significantly more time.

It is a pitty that UEFA does not provide more data to make better comparisons. They only give overall distance covered and top speed.

But FIFA does provide a more comprehensive breakdown, giving distances covered at high, medium and low intensity. I'll have a look at those.

Also you have to take into account that some teams may have more sprinters in their team an less stamina players. So it is not easy to make conclusive deductions.

But my initial thought is that if the Spanish teams are on something (and I am convinced they are) many others are on something too.

 

[sherer]

something I always wondered about the OP list of names that have leaked is whoever has let them into the public must have known the full list to just sort out which one's were cyclists and which ones were from other sports. Somehow I doubt there was a column with the sport listed.

Who's to say AC (Antonio Colum, Alberto Contador etc) isn't really a footballer

 

[Mambo95]

something I always wondered about the OP list of names that have leaked is whoever has let them into the public must have known the full list to just sort out which one's were cyclists and which ones were from other sports. Somehow I doubt there was a column with the sport listed.

Who's to say AC (Antonio Colum, Alberto Contador etc) isn't really a footballer

The "AC" comes from the sheet of paper shown below. As you can see, the initials match up perfectly to the 2005 Liberty Seguros Tour team. It would be a little odd if AC was Andy Cole rather than Contador.

 

[sherer]

The "AC" comes from the sheet of paper shown below. As you can see, the initials match up perfectly to the 2005 Liberty Seguros Tour team. It would be a little odd if AC was Andy Cole rather than Contador.

yes but where are the rest of the leaks of the papers. We have one that matches up with the LS team as you say but none of the pages match up with the Barca or Real team of that time ? Seems a bit strange doesn't it

 

[hrotha]

Lol at Allan Davis doing his own thing for his own goals.

 

[Albatros]

yes but where are the rest of the leaks of the papers. We have one that matches up with the LS team as you say but none of the pages match up with the Barca or Real team of that time ? Seems a bit strange doesn't it

The Barca and Real Madrid plans were in Fuentes house in the Canary Islands, according to Le Monde.

 

[T_S_A_R]

From MV's article above, Jo-Wilfred Tsonga (French #1) is quoted as saying:

"It would be nice to have some proof. For the moment, what he said is completely false because no proof exists."

Which the writer seems to portray as being critical of YN. Is it really though? I mean, as a professional, it seems there's a limited amount that you can really say. He seems to be sailing quite close to censure.

this has been tsonga's best season. he has been training with gil reyes.

verdasco had his best season in 09 training with gil reyes.

andre agassi had his most succesful period training with gil reyes.

the university of nevada las vegas basketball team were extremley succesful training with gil reyes.

i don't think either tsonga or his fitness trainer would enjoy doping in sport being put under greater scrutiny.

 

[Andynonomous]

Gil Reyes ?

Reyes also works with other players like Andy Murray indirectly through Addidas (Murray had a dramatic body shape change within a few weeks at the end of 2008, beginning of 2009, after signing with Addidas).

Before :

After :

(That second picture is NOT photoshopped).

 

[T_S_A_R]

on the uk sky sports la liga show the resident expert - graham hunter - has just said

"we've grown used to used to guardiola timing the fitness plan right. they have this micro fitness climate where they peak and trough"



barca have clearly been on a down cycle recently. expect them back at 110% for the classico in 3 weeks.

 

[craig1985]

The "AC" comes from the sheet of paper shown below. As you can see, the initials match up perfectly to the 2005 Liberty Seguros Tour team. It would be a little odd if AC was Andy Cole rather than Contador.

I've read that 'AC' was actually Ángel Casero.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operación_Puerto#Already_retired_or_suspended

As for Allan Davis, I don't think he was clean when he rode for Saiz and Bruyneel, but I think he has been clean over the last couple of years, or cleaner at least.