Playing God: Eufemiano Fuentes

[Bye Bye Bicycle]

So Juan Miguel Cuenca is another "Christophe Bassons"? Even if cn managed to get his first name wrong in the article...
If you look at Kelme squads from those days you don't have to wonder: Sevilla, Castelblanco, Cabello, Heras, J.E. Gutierrez, Aitor Gonzalez, Botero, Tauler... what a parade of cheaters.

 

[hrotha]

So Juan Miguel Cuenca is another "Christophe Bassons"?

No, Manzano said Cuenca couldn't dope because of some congenital problem with his veins.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Are the riders sent to 'sympathetic' hospitals? How can they be told what tests not to do?

Depending on the tests, the results would be crazy. Joe Papp mentioned this in an interview. I don't have the link handy.

Imagine if medical professionals didn't know the patient was a doped cyclist and took the results verbatim. They'd make the wrong diagnosis about 10 different ways.

 

[Frosty]

Depending on the tests, the results would be crazy. Joe Papp mentioned this in an interview. I don't have the link handy.

Imagine if medical professionals didn't know the patient was a doped cyclist and took the results verbatim. They'd make the wrong diagnosis about 10 different ways.

Didnt Pantani have some blood tests after a crash that alarmed the doctors treating him?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Didnt Pantani have some blood tests after a crash that alarmed the doctors treating him?

Yes, Milano - Torino 1995. Crit of 58 if I am right. Broken leg, almost died.

 

[Briant_Gumble]

Yes, Milano - Torino 1995. Crit of 58 if I am right. Broken leg, almost died.

In what way did he almost die, from the crash itself?

Or was it because the doctors were so alarmed at his Haematocrit that they started a treatment that was bad for him?

 

[poupou]

Museuw had some serious problem too.

 

[sampras38]

I'd hazard a guess at saying the tennis players on Fuentes list are more likely to come from a golden generation of Spanish players that emerged before Nadal; players like Costa, Moya (ex world No 1, briefly), Bruguera, Berasatagui et al. Berasatagui's career was basically foreshortened, amongst other injury problems, by a persistent, supposedly mysterious, muscle cramping problem, a condition that is known can be brought on by overuse of diuretics.

If Nadal does feature on the list he must have been doping from an incredibly young age, although he did turn pro before he reached sixteen.

Rather than accuse Nadal - and I know he's rumoured to be on Fuentes list - I believe a stronger case lies in an argument that says doping built Spain into the tennis powerhouse it is today, and which started with the generation of players that burst onto the scene prior to Nadal. Spain was never traditionally strong at tennis before these players arrived. It had never won the Davis Cup prior to 2000 and has now held the title five times, I think it is. Surprise, surprise.

Pretty much my opinion too..

 

[ElChingon]

Manzano summary here:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/manzano-delivers-shocking-evidence-at-puerto-trial

There was this in there:



Are the riders sent to 'sympathetic' hospitals? How can they be told what tests not to do?

Manzano listed all this out back in 2004 in great detail, there's a series of PDF on the Marca.com site (in Spanish), this is just a rerun of those. They wrote him off back then and have attempted to write him off now but his story has finally been vindicated just like another rider who spilled it out for us.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Museuw had some serious problem too.

and giannetti, gianetti was the worst though, doctors refused to treat him until the team doctor specified everything that was in his blood as they couldn't believe and understand what was going on

 

[El Pistolero]

and giannetti, gianetti was the worst though, doctors refused to treat him until the team doctor specified everything that was in his blood as they couldn't believe and understand what was going on

http://www.sporza.be/cm/sporza/wielrennen/130213_fuentes_manzano

Kelme seems to be far worse. They didn't even tell the doctors what was in their blood.

No surprise that Valverde was so good right from the bat.

 

[D-Queued]

and giannetti, gianetti was the worst though, doctors refused to treat him until the team doctor specified everything that was in his blood as they couldn't believe and understand what was going on

Somebody has to say it...

NOT A THREADJACK

... but if you were being treated for cancer, wouldn't you want to explain to the doctors what was in your blood?

Dave.

 

[LutherB]

Maybe you wouldn't need to if the doctors had told you that there was nothing in the PED's you'd taken that could have brought on, say, something like cancer

 

[LutherB]

Depending on the tests, the results would be crazy. Joe Papp mentioned this in an interview. I don't have the link handy.

Imagine if medical professionals didn't know the patient was a doped cyclist and took the results verbatim. They'd make the wrong diagnosis about 10 different ways.

It seems strange to not allow blood tests to be done without their being at least the question why? I just can't imagine the Dr's saying 'OK' - how could they do their job properly?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

... but if you were being treated for cancer, wouldn't you want to explain to the doctors what was in your blood?

Dave.

Touche...

Respect to Manzano, but nothing on Manolo?

Edit: for Gianetti
http://www.nytimes.com/1998/10/18/sports/a-new-threat-in-blood-doping.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

The Pantani stuff is in Rndells book.

 

[zebedee]

Channel 4 (UK) News today.

http://www.channel4.com/news/catch-up/

Click on top footballers attend doping clinic

Good the media are now directly mentioning foul play and cover ups.

 

[Mad Elephant Man]

For those who missed it live earlier today.

"Manzano dropped an early bombshell when he produced his UCI health card from 2003. This, he said, showed that he had a working relationship with Eufemiano Fuentes, who had previously testified he had no relationship with Manzano. The card bore Fuentes’s signature, indicating he was the rider’s doctor. Although the doctor’s lawyer attempted to have the card struck out as evidence, the judge overruled this protest and Fuentes confirmed the signature was indeed his."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/manzano-delivers-shocking-evidence-at-puerto-trial

Very nice work from Manzano.

 

[Mad Elephant Man]

Posting conspiracy theories about people dieing based on pure speculation seems to be less than useful. If evidence arises then it should be discussed.

I have thought about this some more and now think I was wrong in the post I made here.
There is a lot on the line in this case and a lot of powerful people who need to protect themselves. They might very well try and protect themselves by any means.

 

[afpm90]

Touche...

Respect to Manzano, but nothing on Manolo?

Edit: for Gianetti
http://www.nytimes.com/1998/10/18/sports/a-new-threat-in-blood-doping.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

The Pantani stuff is in Rndells book.

I think he never worked with Manolo Sainz.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I think he never worked with Manolo Sainz.

That's what I thought as well

 

[del1962]

Channel 4 (UK) News today.

http://www.channel4.com/news/catch-up/

Click on top footballers attend doping clinic

Good the media are now directly mentioning foul play and cover ups.

Two Brazilians and a Spanish International bleeped out.

 

[Mad Elephant Man]

Two Brazilians and a Spanish International bleeped out.

Pity, it would be a lot more fun without the bleeps

 

[zebedee]

I don't understand the legal argument behind the ruling that limits the case to an allegation involving cyclists alone i.e. why it cannot be alleged that Fuentes also endangered the health of famous tennis players and footballers too.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Ronaldinho's fitness and athleticism declined after OP.

 

[slowspoke]

Ronaldinho's fitness and athleticism declined after OP.

I point you to my post in the football thread for Ronaldinho's decline