Porte Penalised 2 minutes for getting Clarkes Wheel -Fair?

[Vino's Mum]

Re: Porte Penalised 2 minutes for getting Clarkes Wheel -Fai

Team Sky @TeamSky · 6m 6 minutes ago
#SupportPorte
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#Rule5 #butthurt #yawn

 

[rhubroma]

Re:

I wonder what would happen to Giro if a domestic rider doesn't get to a podium spot for thirty years.
By the look of things, a non-domestic winner for more than three years would kill it.

The Giro wouldn't know what to do with the Tour, on the other hand what Tour winner has won the Giro of late???

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this. I don't expect riders to know all of the rules of cycling but I do expect a DS to do so and for both to know at least the basics. Everyone and his dog knows the last 3 klik rule and the fact that you can't take a wheel from another team is pretty freaking basic as well

A DS is just an old rider. He will know more of the rules than most current riders, but he will not know all of the hundreds of pages of regulations off the top of his head. It is not possible to do so, unless perhaps some ancient bard, trained in the memorisation of epic poems, could be resurrected, convinced to memorise something so tedious and then put in the car. When the UCI's own in house lawyers, the people who drafted the rules in the first place, need to know something about the regulations, I can guarantee you that unless it's something they've looked up many times before they will go and look it up.

There are of course rules which are very well known, like the 3 km one you mention. But just stating that this particular regulation is "basic" doesn't make it so. I'd never heard of it. Few of the people gloating on this thread knew about it. Judging from twitter, few if any of the pros in the peloton knew it, unless they are one of the very small number of people previously penalised. The issue simply doesn't arise very often because it's only relevant to the top GC riders in a race, riders who are usually surrounded by their own team or near a team car or alternatively isolated and surrounded only by their rival GC leaders who are hardly likely to help.

 

[coinneach]

The real focus should not be on the race jury, but on Sky's incompetence.
Having Eisel act at team captain and main lead out for Viviani is asking for trouble, but what were the other 6 riders dreaming about?
And was Brailsford or the DS in the team car at the end?
Let's face it, Porte was never going to win this, and Astanas best chance is Landa not Aru

 

[sir fly]

Re: Re:

I wonder what would happen to Giro if a domestic rider doesn't get to a podium spot for thirty years.
By the look of things, a non-domestic winner for more than three years would kill it.

The Giro wouldn't know what to do with the Tour, on the other hand what Tour winner has won the Giro of late???

I'm sure you've well understood moral of my post, but being Italian makes it harder to accept.

 

[arvc40]

Re:

This penalty unveiled the level of fear Contador's fans were hiding.
This is such a huge relief.

Its good for the race. Porte will now have to stop wheel sucking. Then again, maybe he won't. Struggling to chase back today

 

[richwagmn]

Re:

The real focus should not be on the race jury, but on Sky's incompetence.
Having Eisel act at team captain and main lead out for Viviani is asking for trouble, but what were the other 6 riders dreaming about?
And was Brailsford or the DS in the team car at the end?
Let's face it, Porte was never going to win this, and Astanas best chance is Landa not Aru

Yea, WTF was Sky doing trying to take a stage win over supporting Porte? Splitting your team was just stupid.

 

[Metabolol]

Re:

commissaires stopped the race convoy when Porte punctured , just to be sure Porte lose time

joke of a race , as i said

Yeah and the man with the camera who caused Contador's crash was hired by Sky.

 

[Cookster15]

Re:

The real focus should not be on the race jury, but on Sky's incompetence.
Having Eisel act at team captain and main lead out for Viviani is asking for trouble, but what were the other 6 riders dreaming about?
And was Brailsford or the DS in the team car at the end?
Let's face it, Porte was never going to win this, and Astanas best chance is Landa not Aru

Agree about Sky's incompetence today.

I never felt Porte could win the Giro but he certainly was looking in good enough form relative to the competition to podium - and I think he still can.

But wait to see the TT before you rank Landa ahead of Aru at Astana. From what I know while the TT isn't Aru's strength, Landa will likely do much worse. Its 60km remember.

 

[LeindersGains]

Re: Re:

commissaires stopped the race convoy when Porte punctured , just to be sure Porte lose time

joke of a race , as i said

Yeah and the man with the camera who caused Contador's crash was hired by Sky.

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case given Brailford's reaction.

 

[Jack_89]

Tears of fears

I might even agree with Quintana's case. But this time , you are covering ridicolous. Stop please and go to bed

 

[arvc40]

Anyway, I have cash on this so to be honest Porte's time loss is fantastic for my Giro/Tour bet. Lol

 

[BigMac]

Re: Re:

I wonder what would happen to Giro if a domestic rider doesn't get to a podium spot for thirty years.
By the look of things, a non-domestic winner for more than three years would kill it.

The Giro wouldn't know what to do with the Tour, on the other hand what Tour winner has won the Giro of late???

I'm sure you've well understood moral of my post, but being Italian makes it harder to accept.

I think rhub lives in Italy but is not Italian. And is not really a biased poster either.

That said, you've made some points I agree with. Same as Zinoviev.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

i hope ASO will buy this race and transform it in to a decent one

every year same controversy **** because partisanship

PFWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
HAHAH!!!!

HSHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA!!!!!!!!

HA!!!

HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAA!!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

URH... HURRRR... HURRRGH...

PAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAA!!!!!

you seem pressed , take a chill pill

yes, imo Giro is the shitiest GT because organizers influence the outcome to much, every year.

Or because Sky never wins it?!

Sky never won Vuelta also

every year Giro is full of drama created by organizers

and stop the "it's UCI not RCS" *** , everyone knows jury is puppeted by race organization.

I'm starting to believe that RCS' business strategy is tabloid one.
Every single year we have controversies in their major race.

There's another way to look at it. Which team is constantly involved in controversy.

2009, team leader upon signing insults former team and teammates as "Wigan"
2010, - most hubub ever for a new team entering the sport, annoys other teams with claims to revolutionize the sport.
- Chris Froome dqd for cheating in Giro.
2012
- Wiggins Froome feud hijacks the entire Tour de France.
- Wives get involved.
- attack leader of Vuelta the moment he has a puncture
- Wiggins Froome feud continues in books, documentaries, articles
- Claim they invented the wind tunnel prompting angry response from Madiot.
- Wiggins insults bunch of people, including presenter at charity event for victims of sexual abuse in drunken rant.
2013 - Wiggins Froome feud continues throughout the year.
- Cound gets involved in feuds with fans, wiggins and others on twitter
- Wiggins not selected for tour. More controversy.
- Froome complains riders shouldn't be allowed to descend.
- Froome and Porte do illegal feed ignoring organizers
- Walsh releases team propaganda book which accusing all other teams of barely knowing what a bike is
2014 - Froome releases book insulting a bunch of riders, some of which (Contador and Henderson) no one even knew he was enemies with.
2015 - Porte wheel change.

I'm not even going to go into the Bilharzia lies, inhalers and all the clinic stuff.

Also happens to be the one team that is sponsored by a media agency that will be able to print more stories and therefore profit everytime a controversy occurs.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Has anyone yet come across a pro or a DS on twitter saying that they knew about the rule? I haven't seen one yet, though I have seen a number of pretty surprised pros.

 

[Metabolol]

Re: Re:

commissaires stopped the race convoy when Porte punctured , just to be sure Porte lose time

joke of a race , as i said

Yeah and the man with the camera who caused Contador's crash was hired by Sky.

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case given Brailford's reaction.

Personally I believe that Sky has hired people whose only job is to infect other GC contenders. Professional sneezers and handshakers.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

commissaires stopped the race convoy when Porte punctured , just to be sure Porte lose time

joke of a race , as i said

Yeah and the man with the camera who caused Contador's crash was hired by Sky.

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case given Brailford's reaction.

Personally I believe that Sky has hired people whose only job is to infect other GC contenders. Professional sneezers and handshakers.

That's why they hired Froome, the sickest man in the history of the human race, in the first place.

 

[sir fly]

Re: Re:

I'm starting to believe that RCS' business strategy is tabloid one.
Every single year we have controversies in their major race.

There's another way to look at it. Which team is constantly involved in controversy.

2009, team leader upon signing insults former team and teammates as "Wigan"
2010, - most hubub ever for a new team entering the sport, annoys other teams with claims to revolutionize the sport.
- Chris Froome dqd for cheating in Giro.
2012
- Wiggins Froome feud hijacks the entire Tour de France.
- Wives get involved.
- attack leader of Vuelta the moment he has a puncture
- Wiggins Froome feud continues in books, documentaries, articles
- Claim they invented the wind tunnel prompting angry response from Madiot.
- Wiggins insults bunch of people, including presenter at charity event for victims of sexual abuse in drunken rant.
2013 - Wiggins Froome feud continues throughout the year.
- Cound gets involved in feuds with fans, wiggins and others on twitter
- Wiggins not selected for tour. More controversy.
- Froome complains riders shouldn't be allowed to descend.
- Froome and Porte do illegal feed ignoring organizers
- Walsh releases team propaganda book which accusing all other teams of barely knowing what a bike is
2014 - Froome releases book insulting a bunch of riders, some of which (Contador and Henderson) no one even knew he was enemies with.
2015 - Porte wheel change.

I'm not even going to go into the Bilharzia lies, inhalers and all the clinic stuff.

Also happens to be the one team that is sponsored by a media agency that will be able to print more stories and therefore profit everytime a controversy occurs.

An "A" for the effort Hitch, but has Sky's "tabloidization" directly affected the race results?

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

I wonder what would happen to Giro if a domestic rider doesn't get to a podium spot for thirty years.
By the look of things, a non-domestic winner for more than three years would kill it.

The Giro wouldn't know what to do with the Tour, on the other hand what Tour winner has won the Giro of late???

I'm sure you've well understood moral of my post, but being Italian makes it harder to accept.

I'm neither Italian, nor biased and I completely got your "moral". This is a shame for the race, above all for Contador (or whoever wins). My point was that the Giro is f-ing hard to win, even if not the "hardest" race.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re: Re:

Granted, Hitch - "all the time" is an exaggeration, but there seem to have been quite a few of these incidences. The one I'm thinking of concretely is, if my memory serves me right, from the legendary Galibier stage. You could see Sanchez and Contador avidly discussing tactics in the chasing group - of course they could have been talking about the weather, too - but judging from the context, the most likely explanation is that Sanchez asked an isolated Contador if he should put his Euskaltel team to work for him. Even though they didn't end up doing that cause Contador himself just didn't have the form to keep up with the best, it seems like a clear example of what I called "creating an unfair advantage by ganging up" - Contador was isolated yet all of a sudden he got a whole new batch of shiny orange team mates. Basically it was like everyone was riding on teams of 9 and Contador had a team of 18.

I could be mixing up stages here, forgive me if I do, but I think this was on the legendary Galibier stage. Now I know what you're gonna say - what about Dries Devenyns? Indeed Devenyns - god bless him - in an act of selfless heroism helped pull for Andy in the valley, but it was a spontaneous personal decision, whereas the Euskaltel-Saxo Bank block had more of a secretely organized monopoly feel to it.

Of course this is all legal and these are purely my subjective appreciations, but it does illustrate to some degree why this specific rule that we are currently discussing exists - generally, teams ganging up creates unfair advantages.

Sammy Sanchez didn't have more than 1-2 teammates in the chasing group that day. One of the Euskaltel domestiques participated (for a short period) in the chase along with Saxobank and BMC. I cannot say whether Sanchez asked Contador about puting up his team, but it seems like a very unlikely thing to happen, as Euskaltel was outnumbered by many other teams. On the stage to Gap (descent of the Col de Manse) Contador collaborated with Sanchez and Evans. Collaboration between teams has nothing to with 'creating an unfair advantage by ganging up'. Sprinter's teams does it everyday - is that an 'unfair disadvantage' to the escapees then?

 

[sir fly]

Re: Re:

I wonder what would happen to Giro if a domestic rider doesn't get to a podium spot for thirty years.
By the look of things, a non-domestic winner for more than three years would kill it.

The Giro wouldn't know what to do with the Tour, on the other hand what Tour winner has won the Giro of late???

I'm sure you've well understood moral of my post, but being Italian makes it harder to accept.

I'm not Italian, nor biased. This is a shame for the race, above all for Contador (or whoever wins). My point was that the Giro is f-ing hard to win, even if not the "hardest" race.

I can make the hardest race you can imagine. Anyone can do that.
The point is to make a credible competition and sustainable business model, independent of the outcome.

 

[T-Nielsen]

Re: Re:

I wonder what would happen to Giro if a domestic rider doesn't get to a podium spot for thirty years.
By the look of things, a non-domestic winner for more than three years would kill it.

The Giro wouldn't know what to do with the Tour, on the other hand what Tour winner has won the Giro of late???

I'm sure you've well understood moral of my post, but being Italian makes it harder to accept.

I'm not Italian, nor biased. This is a shame for the race, above all for Contador (or whoever wins). My point was that the Giro is f-ing hard to win, even if not the "hardest" race.

I can make the hardest race you can imagine. Anyone can do that.
The point is to make a credible competition and sustainable business model, independent of the outcome.

And to have the rider you support win.

 

[Eshnar]

Ok guys I'm back. Now stop the bs please. Especially the ones mentioning nationality. Or I'll get angry.

The jury is not RCS. RCS had no interest in hampering Porte. They're not so stupid to believe Aru will have any chance to keep the race interesting in a face-to-face against Contador. A 2nd place would not be so much better than a 3rd.
And if you really believe RCS has any interest in making Aru win, at all, then please explain to me why they put the longest ITT of recent years. Or why they let Quintana get away with the Stelviogate last year.

 

[sir fly]

Re: Re:

And to have the rider you support win.

Anyone who follows this forum knows I'm not a blinded fan.

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

I wonder what would happen to Giro if a domestic rider doesn't get to a podium spot for thirty years.
By the look of things, a non-domestic winner for more than three years would kill it.

The Giro wouldn't know what to do with the Tour, on the other hand what Tour winner has won the Giro of late???

I'm sure you've well understood moral of my post, but being Italian makes it harder to accept.

I'm not Italian, nor biased. This is a shame for the race, above all for Contador (or whoever wins). My point was that the Giro is f-ing hard to win, even if not the "hardest" race.

I can make the hardest race you can imagine. Anyone can do that.
The point is to make a credible competition and sustainable business model, independent of the outcome.

How about just enjoying the Mediterranean universe. As for the outcome, for me it is independent of the business model, which I couldn't care less about. In fact the "business model" has IMO ruined the Tour.