Power Data Estimates for the climbing stages

[JA.Tri]

Having a high ftp doesn't necessarily imply having a high vo2 max...

A high FTP does not imply a high VO2/kg/min. It does imply a high VO2 as FTP is proportional to O2 consumption.

The VO2 at FTP is probably going to be a bit under lactate threshold. At a guess 85% to 90% of Max VO2.

Therefore VO2/kg/min at FTP is likely to be approx 87% of Max VO2/kg/min.

 

[JA.Tri]

and for athletes with a vo2max above 80? does that imply doping?

I understand that:
. Cadel has been measured at 84ml/kg/min, (Edit: 87ml/kg/min D Martin AIS)
. Greg Lemond @ approx 91ml/kg/min (Edit: 92-94ml/kg/min self reported)

A member of this forum has reported personal knowledge of Cadel's figures (several test results), however for privacy reasons (my assumption) he cannot comment.

I had understood that Lance Armstrong's max reading did not approach either of the above (pls see ACoggan post below for correction/clarification).

The difficulty is unless you know someone's PED free MaxVO2 it is a guessing game.

Greg is regarded as a freak maybe 5 sigma and is thought by the majority to be clean.



Edit: a MaxVO2 of 90ml/kg/min would equate to a VO2 of 81ml/kg/min at 90%.

Therefore: accepting Greg is an extreme outlier; putting out 80ml/kg/min for an hour is extreme.

 

[function]

I understand that:
. Cadel has been measured at 84ml/kg/min,
. Greg Lemond @ approx 91ml/kg/min

A member of this forum has personal knowledge of Cadel's figures (several test results), however for privacy reasons he cannot comment.

I understand that Lance Armstrong's max reading did not approach either of the above.

The difficulty is unless you know someone's PED free MaxVO2 it is a guessing game.

Greg is regarded as a freak maybe 5 sigma and is thought by the majority to be clean.

Edit: a MaxVO2 of 90ml/kg/min would equate to a VO2 of 81ml/kg/min at 90%.

Therefore: accepting Greg is an extreme outlier; putting out 80ml/kg/min for an hour is extreme.

Good info, i was mostly surprised that BigBoat thought that ~6W/kg is the max clean which brings into question riders like Chris Boardman (vo2max ~90ml/kg/min) and had an FTP of 6.4W/kg (in the padilla paper) around his hour record. The same applies for Moncoutie who did ~6.2W/kg (going off memory) for the Ventoux ITT (~58 minutes), even Moncoutie on the lower end would require about 90ml/kg/min. My opinion is that 6W/kg is very much below what is physiologically possible.

 

[acoggan]

I understand that:
. Cadel has been measured at 84ml/kg/min,
. Greg Lemond @ approx 91ml/kg/min

A member of this forum has personal knowledge of Cadel's figures (several test results), however for privacy reasons he cannot comment.

I understand that Lance Armstrong's max reading did not approach either of the above.

Prior to the 1996 Olympics, Armstrong's VO2max was reported by the head exercise physiologist at the US Olympic Training Center to be 84 mL/min/kg when measured in Colorado Springs, CO, i.e., at 1800-1900 m. If you *** u me that he experienced the 5-10% reduction typical at that altitude, then his sea level VO2max at the time would have been 88-93 mL/min/kg.

 

[acoggan]

and for athletes with a vo2max above 80? does that imply doping?

Obviously not. For example, when I was young I had a VO2max of 81 mL/min/kg, and at the time had "blood like pure spring water" (I didn't even consume caffeine).

 

[acoggan]

The VO2 at FTP is probably going to be a bit under lactate threshold.

You mean over, at least the way LT is almost always defined.

 

[acoggan]

6-6.1 W/Kilo for an hour is the limit for a clean performance.

So you believe that not only Boardman, but also Obree, doped?

 

[function]

Obviously not. For example, when I was young I had a VO2max of 81 mL/min/kg, and at the time had "blood like pure spring water" (I didn't even consume caffeine).

I had originally misread BigBoat's statement that a VO2 (i misread it as VO2max) of 80ml/kg/min was a possible limit.

 

[function]

So you believe that not only Boardman, but also Obree, doped?

I'm honestly interested in hearing the reasoning behind why 6W/kg should be considered as the physiological limit for a clean athlete.

 

[mb2612]

I'm honestly interested in hearing the reasoning behind why 6W/kg should be considered as the physiological limit for a clean athlete.

It seems more experimental than anything else, but http://www.sportsscientists.com/ have some excellent pieces on why in their opinion the threshold should be set at 6.2

 

[function]

It seems more experimental than anything else, but http://www.sportsscientists.com/ have some excellent pieces on why in their opinion the threshold should be set at 6.2

yeah I've read their article on the 6.2 number, although I'm of the opinion that a GT is a poor environment for making these determinations. The numbers are based on performances 2 weeks into a GT with race tactics, varying fatigue and 4hrs of racing for the final climbs. Way too many variables for me.

 

[acoggan]

I'm honestly interested in hearing the reasoning behind why 6W/kg should be considered as the physiological limit for a clean athlete.

I don't think that 6 W/kg should be considered the physiological limit for a clean athlete. In fact, I don't think you can (should) use physiological measurements to determine who is/isn't doping in the first place.

 

[function]

I don't think that 6 W/kg should be considered the physiological limit for a clean athlete. In fact, I don't think you can (should) use physiological measurements to determine who is/isn't doping in the first place.

Does that include tracking physiological markers and trends ala blood passport?

 

[acoggan]

Does that include tracking physiological markers and trends ala blood passport?

I was thinking of VO2max, LT, efficiency, power...

 

[function]

I was thinking of VO2max, LT, efficiency, power...

Ah, yes i'm in agreement there.

 

[simo1733]

Obviously not. For example, when I was young I had a VO2max of 81 mL/min/kg, and at the time had "blood like pure spring water" (I didn't even consume caffeine).

+1 many years ago I was tested 83 ml/ min/ kg. Not only was I not doping but I wasn't a very good racer either.
V02 max is only one indication of athletic potential.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Prior to the 1996 Olympics, Armstrong's VO2max was reported by the head exercise physiologist at the US Olympic Training Center to be 84 mL/min/kg when measured in Colorado Springs, CO, i.e., at 1800-1900 m. If you *** u me that he experienced the 5-10% reduction typical at that altitude, then his sea level VO2max at the time would have been 88-93 mL/min/kg.

Thanks to Ferrari.

 

[Race Radio]

Prior to the 1996 Olympics, Armstrong's VO2max was reported by the head exercise physiologist at the US Olympic Training Center to be 84 mL/min/kg when measured in Colorado Springs, CO, i.e., at 1800-1900 m. If you *** u me that he experienced the 5-10% reduction typical at that altitude, then his sea level VO2max at the time would have been 88-93 mL/min/kg.

What was it prior to working with Ferrari?

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

How easy is it to work out VAM for the TT stage?

 

[Ferminal]

Average power you mean? No point trying with aero differences.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Average power you mean? No point trying with aero differences.

Yes, sorry wattage. It would have been nice to see figures so personal bias is less of a factor.

 

[zigmeister]

How easy is it to work out VAM for the TT stage?

No need to for several riders, because they post their power meter numbers opening on training peaks and other sites like SRM.

Of course, there are many riders we would like to get ahold of those power number, because they all have them, they just choose not to make them public.

Sad actually. It is a useful tool for people training and understanding what it takes to achieve a high-level of cycling.

 

[Ferminal]

Yes, sorry wattage. It would have been nice to see figures so personal bias is less of a factor.

It's hard because TTs are the only time you are guaranteed they are going 100%.

Although they looked 100% on Saturday, we may not see them on a 40+ minute effort as Sky don't necessarily need to force the pace from here on.

Froome did post some of his Vuelta numbers though.

 

[roundabout]

Maybe Brajkovic will post them.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Froome did post some of his Vuelta numbers though.

Hopefully, in this era of 'cleaner' (Don't laugh) racing more teams will start to post figures.