Power Data Estimates for the climbing stages

[Skibby the bush kangaroo]

I timed the last 10k for Froome at 22'19" and I think the altitude gain is about 525m so a VAM of 1412m/hr. Slow, but not surprising given the shallow gradient and the way the rest of the stage was ridden.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Well, the crude VAM to W/Kilo conversions make that a pretty derisory figure.

 

[Maxiton]

Ferrari calculated the following figures:



He was also surprised to see the high cadence:

The Sky riders are pedaling uphill with very high cadences of pedaling (often over 100 RPM), which seem quite excessive in relation to the power outputs, around 420-440W: either these athletes are riding below their limit, or the asymmetrical chainrings used by most of them require higher cadences in order to get the best out of them.

http://www.53x12.com/do/show?page=indepth.view&id=131

I think it's a stretch to attribute it to asymmetrical chainrings. In which case the far more likely alternative, riding below their limit, is the one we're left with.

High cadence on the climbs, a la Armstrong, is BTW indicative of oxygen vector doping because it relies on the least stressed system: that of the (doped) aerobic. Another way of saying it is that it relies on the augmented system, the aerobic.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

High cadence on the climbs, a la Armstrong, is BTW indicative of oxygen vector doping because it relies on the least stressed system: that of the (doped) aerobic.

Charley Gaul really must have been really ahead of his time.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

I timed the last 10k for Froome at 22'19" and I think the altitude gain is about 525m so a VAM of 1412m/hr. Slow, but not surprising given the shallow gradient and the way the rest of the stage was ridden.

Rest of the stage appeared tough, but the time was well behind schedule.

Riders are on the limit at lower speeds.

 

[MajorTom]

Stage 11: Albertville - La Toussuire - Les Sybelles 148km
by Jani Brajkovic
http://www.trainingpeaks.com/av/5IGQQZ4XINBIKWQQZFEQZA2YIE

 

[roundabout]

Thanks. Very interesting. Fast beginning of the Madeleine. Pretty fast pace chasing Evans on the Glandon. 5.6 w/kg for the whole of the last climb.

 

[The Cobra]

@inrg:
''One for the sports scientists, Janez Brajkovic was 8th on today's stage with an estimated 5.3W/kg on the final climb''

Christ 5.3W/kg!! The EPO era really has returned with a vengeance!! Lord only knows what crazy power Froome dog had, 5.5W/kg or something the crazy doped up mofo. Lance would be proud of those numbers.

 

[roundabout]

Brajkovic own data says he did 5.6.

Also, this forum needs a shrugging smiley.

 

[wannab]

Happy to see these kind of numbers! They are really impressive and something i'd expect from top _clean_ pro's

 

[webvan]

And the best part, as we knew all along, is that it still makes for a great (better ?) show!

 

[taiwan]

Slight irony in the use of Ferrari's website to get the figures to judge whether people are doping, but...

It's like "thanks Dr. Ferrari, cornerstone of the anti-doping camp".

 

[Bala Verde]

This article, recently posted by the hog i think, says:

http://www.lemonde.fr/sport/article...-secrete-de-bradley-wiggins_1731653_3242.html

Avec Frédéric Portoleau, ingénieur en mécanique des fluides, nous disséquons depuis 20 ans les puissances développées - en watts - par les coureurs. On peut les calculer indirectement de manière aussi fiable que les compteurs à mesure directe que possèdent plus de 100 coureurs sur cette édition 2012, mais dont l'Union cycliste internationale a interdit curieusement, cette année, la transmission et la publication "en live" pendant les étapes. Les niveaux de puissance nous renseignent sur l'éventuel usage des corticoïdes, de l'Aicar - un produit avec lequel "plus tu manges, plus tu maigris" (sic) -, du TB 500 qui transforme les souris en lièvres, des microdoses d'EPO, des hormones de croissance et autres transfusions.

One can calculate watts indirectly as reliably as power meters, which more than 100 riders in the 2012 edition [of the TdF] have, but which the UCI this year has curiously forbidden for live transmission during the stages.

If the translation is somewhat accurate....

Has anyone heard anything about this?

 

[mektronic]

This article, recently posted by the hog i think, says:

http://www.lemonde.fr/sport/article...-secrete-de-bradley-wiggins_1731653_3242.html

If the translation is somewhat accurate....

Has anyone heard anything about this?

You cannot back calculate power to the extent that people believe without knowledge of variables such as tyre rolling resistance, drivetrain efficiency and aerodynamic drag (yes, even on the climbing stages).

The decision not to allow live power data was purely a rights issue, as ASO want to have control of all data from the race and not allow SRM to do their usual. Would be really easy though, with something like MyTracks you'd have a quality stream of data.

 

[Ferminal]

Slight irony in the use of Ferrari's website to get the figures to judge whether people are doping, but...

It's like "thanks Dr. Ferrari, cornerstone of the anti-doping camp".

He's a troll.

 

[hrotha]

@inrg:
''One for the sports scientists, Janez Brajkovic was 8th on today's stage with an estimated 5.3W/kg on the final climb''

Christ 5.3W/kg!! The EPO era really has returned with a vengeance!! Lord only knows what crazy power Froome dog had, 5.5W/kg or something the crazy doped up mofo. Lance would be proud of those numbers.

This is faulty logic.

If I were to start producing 4.5 W/kg, you can bet I'd be doped to the gills.

 

[131313]

@inrg:
''One for the sports scientists, Janez Brajkovic was 8th on today's stage with an estimated 5.3W/kg on the final climb''

Christ 5.3W/kg!! The EPO era really has returned with a vengeance!! Lord only knows what crazy power Froome dog had, 5.5W/kg or something the crazy doped up mofo. Lance would be proud of those numbers.

He did 340W for 45:00. I've seen his weight listed as low as 58 KG, so that puts him around 5.86 w/kg. If you think he actually weighs 64 kilos, please beware of solicitation e-mails from Nigeria...

 

[Lanark]

This is faulty logic.

If I were to start producing 4.5 W/kg, you can bet I'd be doped to the gills.

True. Looking at W/kg is usefull for finding general trends in the peloton, but judging a rider to be completely clean based on that would be terrible logic. In fact, using this method you would have to conclude that everyone before 1991 was clean, while we know the vast majority weren't. An average rider can still make a big jump using doping without ever coming close to clean human limits.

If somebody was generating insane wattages on climbs (6.4 W/kg or something) he would surely be doping, but nobody has been doing that on longer climbs for 3 or 4 years.

 

[wannab]

This is faulty logic.

If I were to start producing 4.5 W/kg, you can bet I'd be doped to the gills.

I see your point, numbers don't say everything about doped or not. A lower number doesn't necessarily mean cleanness BUT well .. they are pro's 5+ w/kg is like the minimum norm there.

I mean if I can produce 4.8w/kg ftp, being limited gifted (and even suck at local races), I think pro's whom are well beyond average gifted can produce those numbers totally clean.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Nibali posted his SRM file from yesterday. http://www.srm.de/index.php/us/srm-b...-de-france/737

Col de la Madeleine 5.03 watts/kg
Croix de Fer 5.2 watts/kg
Toussuire 5.62 watts/kg

Jani

Col de la Croix Fer (HC): 68', 316w (5.2w/kg)

La Toussuire (HC climb): 46' 337w (5.6w/kg)

http://www.trainingpeaks.com/av/5IGQQZ4XINBIKWQQZFEQZA2YIE

They were in the same group on Col de la Croix Fer, but Nibali dropped Jani by a minute on La Toussuire. What's up?

 

[mektronic]

Because people are using largely fictitious estimates of body mass, bike mass and rolling resistance equivalents.

 

[Lanark]

Has anybody compared the times on La Toussuire to those in 2006? That was a different stage, with the final climb ridden more agressively, but it would be an interesting comparison.

 

[mastersracer]

Because people are using largely fictitious estimates of body mass, bike mass and rolling resistance equivalents.

No, they are not estimated based on ascent times. They are from their published SRM files. The only uncertainty is rider weight. Nibali's weight is listed either at 64 of 63 kg. At 63kg, his average on that last climb would be 5.7 watts/kg.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

The problem is their data show the same % increase in power from Croix de Fer to Toussuire, even though they were in the same group and both sheltered on CdF, while Nibali climbed Toussuire considerably faster than Jani. How can that be correct?

 

[Nilsson]

The problem is their data show the same % increase in power from Croix de Fer to Toussuire, even though they were in the same group and both sheltered on CdF, while Nibali climbed Toussuire considerably faster than Jani. How can that be correct?

Nibali maybe drafted more than Jani? Especially with the the less steep parts of La Toussuire it could have led to some difference...