Power Data Estimates for the climbing stages

[meat puppet]

The forum is not unlike a virtual pub in a sense. I say this without a pejorative implication.

Despite the possible and impossible problems related to w/kg calculations, comparisons between climbs and riders, etc, I think they do have value and contribute positively. It is reasonable to be doubtful of performances (tirreno and PN) such as the ones that triggered the latest discussion above. The calculations tend to suggest so much, too.

 

[Red Rick]

Those numbers all seen very high. Basically higher than anything from last year, except just maybe for Quintana at Lagos de Covadonga?

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

So it looks like Contador hasn't slowed down (from post-ban, not post-2009). Quintana and Porte not too surprising. Has Henao put out those kind of numbers in the past? Martin?

 

[Red Rick]

If we're to believe Jens Attacks, Bala was 6.6 W/kg for 24 minutes. That would have basically every rider in the top 10 be out of this world.

If that's even true, that in itself means either super fast times are the new drug and flavour of the season, or circumstances were super good

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

If we're to believe Jens Attacks, Bala was 6.6 W/kg for 24 minutes. That would have basically every rider in the top 10 be out of this world.

If that's even true, that in itself means either super fast times are the new drug and flavour of the season, or circumstances were super good

The riders sure do seem to go faster and faster. Im sure someone way smarter than me has numbers to back that up...

Jens also compared the performance to Vino on Cobortoria in 2006. Damn that was a fun Vuelta by the way.

 

[Escarabajo]

I don't like the normalized numbers. The figures for doping actually come from the actual W/kg numbers. These could be misleading. That's how Greg Lemond got in trouble in the past with the numbers. LOL.

Quintana is right at 6 W/kg.
Porte is right at 6.2 W/kg.

These numbers for a similar workout tell me more. Not to mention if in the calculations for Quintana they took into account the drafting in most of the ascent.

 

[Le breton]

Re:

I don't like the normalized numbers. The figures for doping actually come from the actual W/kg numbers. These could be misleading. That's how Greg Lemond got in trouble in the past with the numbers. LOL.

Quintana is right at 6 W/kg.
Porte is right at 6.2 W/kg.

These numbers for a similar workout tell me more. Not to mention if in the calculations for Quintana they took into account the drafting in most of the ascent.

Yes, Portoleau took drafting into account according to the Chronoswatts reference (113) :
Sa puissance moyenne estimée est de 6,2 w/kg en considérant qu'il était pendant 80% de temps abrité dans les roues pour profiter d'un léger « drafting » en côte à 22 km/h (30% de réduction des résistances aérodynamiques). La puissance étalon du « coureur témoin » de 78kg avec vélo se situe à 422 watts (+/- 3%).

Portoleau reduced the aero factor by 30% for the 80% fraction of the ascent during which Quintana was "drafting".
The 6.2 W/kg correspond to a 70 kg cyclist. As Quintana is considerably lighter, redoing the calculation with his actual weight would presumably increase that 6.2 figure to 6.3 or 6.4 W/kg. However, since the uncertainty is 3% according to Portoleau, we have 6.2=6.3=6.4

 

[Escarabajo]

Thanks Le Breton.

I am just not getting the power that you are getting that power is for a bigger person. Power should be smaller. I know he took into account drafting but in your calculation you are still using the normalized power instead of his actual power we should be smaller than 400 W.

 

[Le breton]

Re:

Thanks Le Breton.

I am just not getting the power that you are getting that power is for a bigger person. Power should be smaller. I know he took into account drafting but in your calculation you are still using the normalized power instead of his actual power we should be smaller than 400 W.

SORRY MY MISTAKE.

I read the article too fast.
Portoleau calculated 354 watts for Quintana, and 6, 2 W/kg. He must have assumed his weight to be 57 kg as 354/57 = 6.2 W/kg.
In the table, top of this page, he also calculate the power a "Standard 70 kg racer" would have had to produce to keep up with Quintana . 422 watts, i.e 422/70 = 6.03 W/kg.

Out of topic : have you heard of the "Conquista de los Andes" planned in Perù in August? 7 stages to go from Pisco to Cuzco. Highest pass = 4740 m. Total elevation gain > 15 000 m. 750 km + or -. It's on Facebook.

 

[Escarabajo]

Ok. Much better. Thanks.

It is the first time I hear of that race. It sounds like a good race for altitude natives.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re:

http://www.chronoswatts.com/news/113/

Contador, déjà brillant deuxième derrière Porte au sommet du col de la Couillole (estimation de puissance à 6,2 w/kg et 425 watts étalon), a montré de grandes capacités de récupération le lendemain. Il ose une attaque à 50 km de l'arrivée dans la montée de Peille. J'ai estimé sa puissance moyenne à 6,85 w/kg et 467 watts étalon (+/- 4%) pour une durée de 15min48s.

Full genius season

The absolute watts a guy like Dumoulin or Gesink have to pull out to be able to keep up with Quintana is insane.
They have to do 450/460W to even stand a chance against Quintana who has to do 350. :lol:

I know w/kg is therefore the most important for efficiency and length for drag reasons. But a tall and slightly heavier rider basically should not stand a chance.
I wonder how Froome does it.

 

[GraftPunk]

Well normalized or not, the formulas (either way) do tend to make outliers somewhat obvious. I tend to think of the w/kg measurements as blunt tools anyway, but they can be useful despite lack of nuance.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

http://www.chronoswatts.com/news/113/

Contador, déjà brillant deuxième derrière Porte au sommet du col de la Couillole (estimation de puissance à 6,2 w/kg et 425 watts étalon), a montré de grandes capacités de récupération le lendemain. Il ose une attaque à 50 km de l'arrivée dans la montée de Peille. J'ai estimé sa puissance moyenne à 6,85 w/kg et 467 watts étalon (+/- 4%) pour une durée de 15min48s.

Full genius season

The absolute watts a guy like Dumoulin or Gesink have to pull out to be able to keep up with Quintana is insane.
They have to do 450/460W to even stand a chance against Quintana who has to do 350. :lol:

I know w/kg is therefore the most important for efficiency and length for drag reasons. But a tall and slightly heavier rider basically should not stand a chance.
I wonder how Froome does it.

500 watts. Ask Ullrich!!

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Since the TdF went back to pro team format in early 1960s, the average height and weight of those who are multiple winners* has been 1.79m and 69.4kg.

* Including Armstrong but not including Thevenet as I can't find his height and weight details.

 

[Scarponi]

Any data on the Etna ?

 

[Escarabajo]

Edna numbers would be meaningless because of the strong head wind and most of the riders were sheltered. If you do the VAM calculations it would be really meaningless because it does not take into account these things!

 

[Brullnux]

Were the watt numbers close to correct or were they really going full genius

 

[Netserk]

Full genius. Mind, it was a Vuelta stage, but the pace leading up to the timed segment was hard and the ascent pace above both jens' and ammattipyoraily's expectations.

@ammattipyoraily

The performance of Quintana on Blockhaus is at the same level with his Alpe d'Huez effort in 2015 Tour de France. #Giro100

https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/863773186978177024

 

[meat puppet]

The figures show'n on tv are probably unfiltered instantenous power numbers, not climb averages. Anyway, I think the avgs will be very high too.

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

The figures show'n on tv are probably unfiltered instantenous power numbers, not climb averages. Anyway, I think the avgs will be very high too.

Yeah but they showed them first when Amador just pace setting, and again when Quintana was riding his own tempo.

 

[kingjr]

Tbf, those were brilliant conditions for going fast today. Early in the race, only one climb that's not too long, perfect weather...

 

[Brullnux]

Jens says this was the same as Froome psm, which is incredible really. I don't think Nairo has that much more room to improve until he reaches his peak. It means that effectively all the top 5 were doing 6w/kg or thereabouts. They are all in great shape. The Giro is still open I think.

 

[Escarabajo]

It makes you wonder about the watts for Dumoulin.

 

[Durden93]

If the numbers are right, either there was some sort of latent factor or the peloton is on jet fuel this year.

 

[Netserk]

Re:

If the numbers are right, either there was some sort of latent factor or the peloton is on jet fuel this year.

Well, it's hardly the only super performance so far. It's been a fast year.