Rabobank(+ the rest): what a stuff up!

[Bala Verde]

From now on, he should be known as TVAVA (The Very Average Van Avermaet)

Greg van Averaege?

 

[roundabout]

Hesjedal had to take advantage of the local hospitality.

 

[Anonymous]

how many threads do we actually need today. Someone is going to get upset soon.

 

[Granville57]

Thread merge. Never mind...

 

[will10]

Greg van Averaege?

Love it. Best thing in about 1000 replies today..

 

[Mellow Velo]

Greg van Averaege?

Works for me, too!
Joint copyright.
I don't think ACF will be too pleased.

 

[Astana1]

So again, to make it clear to ACF

They were just in survival mode in the last 20k. They had nothing left in the tank. Got it pumpkin?

If guys like Vinokourov, Cunego and Sanchez get completely dropped and ridden at 2 minutes, you know how hard this race has been.
But ACF thinks this is a cycling manager game where everyone has limitless energy and can attack, work, and fetch bottles on command

Sorry bro. I invite you to come over to the Netherlands one day, and ride the Amstel Gold Race tour version with me. You'll understand much much better how hard this race actually is.
It's unforgiving. It's brutal. It kills people off.

Agree. These races make my legs hurt just watching. In these races you either have a great day or a ****ty one.

 

[red_flanders]

I'll just repeat what I said in the Amstel Gold Race

You don't understand the character of this race. It's not as 'easy' as Flanders.
Nobody has anything left in the tank, then nobody can do anything.
When you're not strong enough in the Amstel Gold Race, you stand no chance.

Look, no doubt it's a tough race, but come on. There were about 100 guys at the front with 24k to go, with riders blocking on the subsequent climb(s). Today's edition was not raced hard.

It can be a hard race, and no 258k race is easy, but it wasn't particularly so today. And harder than Flanders? Sorry, the course might have more hills but I'll eat my hat if it's raced harder than Flanders. It's more technically demanding, I'll give you that.

 

[theyoungest]

Look, no doubt it's a tough race, but come on. There were about 100 guys at the front with 24k to go, with riders blocking on the subsequent climb(s). Today's edition was not raced hard.

It can be a hard race, and no 258k race is easy, but it wasn't particularly so today. And harder than Flanders? Sorry, the course might have more hills but I'll eat my hat if it's raced harder than Flanders. It's more technically demanding, I'll give you that.

One thing's for sure, the Tour of Flanders winner was nowhere today. And I doubt a guy like Tom Boonen could get anywhere near the top-20 on this course.

The race looks boring and lacklustre, but like someone said earlier on the forum, it's just one big interval training.

 

[red_flanders]

One thing's for sure, the Tour of Flanders winner was nowhere today. And I doubt a guy like Tom Boonen could get anywhere near the top-20 on this course.

The race looks boring and lacklustre, but like someone said earlier on the forum, it's just one big interval training.

Yes, it's a completely different kind of race which certainly favors power/weight ratios over pure power in comparison to Flanders. It can be brutally selective, favoring an explosive climber when finishing on the Cauberg as it does now, yet still a guy like Freire can finish near the top, where in Flanders he'd be made mincemeat of over the stones.

Today it was not brutally selective. Again, there was literally an entire peloton left with 24k to go.

 

[greenedge]

like i said in the other thread.

none of them seemed like they wanted to work for each other.
-Friere always comes up short here, the finish is too steep for him.
-Martens was the big dissapointment imo. Was placed well.
-And gesink I though again looked poor/under form. Otherwise I suspect he would have attacked. Don't expect much for the rest of ardennes.

anywho, considering they had 3 guys they probably should have done better. Still could be worse, could be bmc and be non-existant in the race

as for letting gilbert chase, there was nothing loser about that. It was the only way the entire group was going to beat gilbert. and it still failed. In that regard the whole group rode like losers (-purito who attacked on an earlier climb).

They failed on the fiinish tho, should have done better (tho again, I'm not surprised by gesink or friere).

(- Fuglsang who had andy actually attacking ). Thought oscar was ok in the sense he should not be able to even win this type of race yet still does.

 

[greenedge]

Also i think the race was a bit tougher this yr

 

[theyoungest]

Yes, it's a completely different kind of race which certainly favors power/weight ratios over pure power in comparison to Flanders. It can be brutally selective, favoring an explosive climber when finishing on the Cauberg as it does now, yet still a guy like Freire can finish near the top, where in Flanders he'd be made mincemeat of over the stones.

Today it was not brutally selective. Again, there was literally an entire peloton left with 24k to go.

And in the course of a few kilometers, this peloton was decimated to about 12 guys. That's Amstel for you: it's hard, but you can only make the difference in the final.

BTW I'm not entirely certain that Freire wouldn't have made that front group in Flanders we saw this year.

 

[greenedge]

Agreed. If anyone had gone earlier, they would have been out of the top 10 ala Schleck. They put pressure on Gilbert/OLO to chase, which worked out in their favor; they were dragged to the line where they were then beat as individuals by stronger riders.



Its different because they put 3 in the top 10; I don't think they couldn't have finished higher up, and evidence seems to be emerging in the post race interviews as such. Would you prefer that they "gave it a go" with Schleck? Where did he finish? (Thats only a half-rhetorical question; I haven't seen anything outside of the top 10 yet)

Leopard finished with Fuglsang in 4th so even then they did well. Also Cancellara and Frank crashed

 

[greenedge]

Wish id never listened to ACF and put Van Avermaet in my team. At least Gesink got in the top ten and scored me a few points.

Be happy for Gerrans. Great rider

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Yes, it's a completely different kind of race which certainly favors power/weight ratios over pure power in comparison to Flanders. It can be brutally selective, favoring an explosive climber when finishing on the Cauberg as it does now, yet still a guy like Freire can finish near the top, where in Flanders he'd be made mincemeat of over the stones.

Today it was not brutally selective. Again, there was literally an entire peloton left with 24k to go.

Rofl, have you seen a different race? While there was a peloton of 80 men, you have to know 50 of them only came back on the easier (but still hard) part between 80 and 40k, and that another 20 of them were already dead.

The race WAS brutally selective. That's the point you are missing. Otherwise guys like Cunego and Vino don't lose 2 minutes in the final 10km

 

[red_flanders]

And in the course of a few kilometers, this peloton was decimated to about 12 guys. That's Amstel for you: it's hard, but you can only make the difference in the final.

Yes, the last bit was raced very hard, and there were tired legs and a lot of guys dropping off who were not going to contest the finale. This is also a characteristic since the course change in 2003. Not at all true with many of the older courses. It's also been selective long before the finale many times before. The riders make the race..or not as today.

BTW I'm not entirely certain that Freire wouldn't have made that front group in Flanders we saw this year.

He should give it a go, I'd like to see him give it a shot. My feeling is he doesn't have much interest in such a physically brutal race given his injury history, it would shell him IMO.

Take my comments for what the are, a response to comments that suggest it's harder than Flanders. I'm not dissing the race, it's obviously a brutal course, and far hillier than Flanders, but it's just different, and quite frankly not as big a race.

 

[red_flanders]

Rofl, have you seen a different race? While there was a peloton of 80 men, you have to know 50 of them only came back on the easier (but still hard) part between 80 and 40k, and that another 20 of them were already dead.

The race WAS brutally selective. That's the point you are missing. Otherwise guys like Cunego and Vino don't lose 2 minutes in the final 10km

Of course they lost 2 mins, it's not like they're sprinting up the Cauberg when they know they can't win. Come on man, you can't seriously claim that race was brutally selective. It wasn't even a particularly selective version of AGR.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

yes i seriously claim this was a very brutal selection

and i think you have a complete lack of understanding cycling if you didn't see that. Certainly when you add up the post-race comments from the riders about how hard the race was made.
You fail sir.

To make matters worse, than RVV would be even far less selective according to your logic.

 

[red_flanders]

yes i seriously claim this was a very brutal selection

and i think you have a complete lack of understanding cycling if you didn't see that. Certainly when you add up the post-race comments from the riders about how hard the race was made.
You fail sir.

To make matters worse, than RVV would be even far less selective according to your logic.

I get that you're passionate about this race, and that's awesome, but these kinds of comments make it clear that discussion has with you on this topic is about defensiveness and nationalism. I'm sorry AGR isn't the biggest classic on the calendar, but no amount of wishful thinking will make it so.

I can't begin to imagine how you would construe my comments as some kind of logic thread that make RVV less selective. The fact is that it was more selective and had dramatic action for the last hour and a half, where this edition of AGR was decided in the last 10 - 15 minutes alone, with a fairly large group and one dominant rider.

By all means, the course should be selective. It's simply not always ridden as hard as other races.

 

[hrotha]

yes i seriously claim this was a very brutal selection

and i think you have a complete lack of understanding cycling if you didn't see that. Certainly when you add up the post-race comments from the riders about how hard the race was made.
You fail sir.

To make matters worse, than RVV would be even far less selective according to your logic.

The riders talked about how hard the Volta a Catalunya was and how spectacular the Vuelta a Castilla y León mountain-top finish stage was.

 

[mulletCobra]

So we are going to have to have a '"Insert Team Here" eff'd up big time! those wimps! thread' after every race now?

 

[M Sport]

So we are going to have to have a '"Insert Team Here" eff'd up big time! those wimps! thread' after every race now?

I didn't watch the race but read the Velonews race report this morning, I knew that once I looked on here there would be a "Rabo fail" thread of some sort. I'm not saying it's true but it's just the way it is.

I'm actually surprised the Franck Schleck bike handling thread hasn't been dredged up

 

[bicing]

I was talking about sarcasm & mockery.

 

[Archibald]

Of course they lost 2 mins, it's not like they're sprinting up the Cauberg when they know they can't win. Come on man, you can't seriously claim that race was brutally selective. It wasn't even a particularly selective version of AGR.

pardon??
of course it was selective, they were found wanting and knew they were done. And they knew this a reasonable way from the finish, which is why they pulled the plug on their attempts to podium.
or don't you think that makes the course "selective"?