Race Thread

[Jagartrott]

Funny anecdote: my oldest son (11) had to write a letter to a 'famous person' for school. They said "don't pick football players because they never write back". He chose Mathieu. He wrote he is a fan and watches all his races etc., which is all a blatant lie because all he watches (despite my best efforts) is youtube and tiktok. Anyway, yesterday, he got a nice little letter back from MVDP. I'll make him watch the race Sunday

Van der Poel lives 10 km away from us, by the way, and Van Aert 15 km. I've never seen them train though (but my dad has).

 

[Spine Concept]

Funny anecdote: my oldest son (11) had to write a letter to a 'famous person' for school. They said "don't pick football players because they never write back". He chose Mathieu. He wrote he is a fan and watches all his races etc., which is all a blatant lie because all he watches (despite my best efforts) is youtube and tiktok. Anyway, yesterday, he got a nice little letter back from MVDP. I'll make him watch the race Sunday

Van der Poel lives 10 km away from us, by the way, and Van Aert 15 km. I've never seen them train though (but my dad has).

Nice of Mathieu to write back. Pressure’s on him now to make your son a real fan on race-day and we all know how he is with pressure

My son is 2. I really hope that by the time he’s at that age the tiktok-hype is dead and buried, though I’m certain this is a recurring generational thing. I remember my parents not being fond of Myspace back in the day.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

Seeing that video the course looks quite easy but it was difficult to judge some of the grassy sections and it's also about speed. The sand cannot be a major problem for the best riders unless it changes completely. Hulst and Antwerpen looked harder.

It's not the most interesting course we've seen for a Worlds course, but neither were Bogense or Dubendorf - mainly flat & featureless with the only climbing on bridges. This has the added challenge of the sand however - and one hopes it's rideable.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Mathieu says sand+bridge combo is really hard.

IN BEELD: Stybar, Van der Poel en Belgen in het WK-zand van Oostende

De deelnemers aan het WK veldrijden hebben vanmiddag het parcours van dichtbij bekeken. Klinkende namen als Mathieu van der Poel, Zdenek Stybar en Michael Vanthourenhout maakten allemaal kennis met het "rotzand" in Oostende.

sporza.be

 

[Barkintheeye]

It's not the most interesting course we've seen for a Worlds course, but neither were Bogense or Dubendorf - mainly flat & featureless with the only climbing on bridges. This has the added challenge of the sand however - and one hopes it's rideable.

I have watched the race at Bogense several times. The impression may be that the course was relatively dull but the race shows that it had its merits. There were quite a few sections that challenged the riders and the slicky off-camber where Van der Poel attacked Van Aert was relally decisive.

On a separate note - race course design is something that's been on my mind for a while. Does it matter a lot or is it rather the competition that makes the race interesting? Or maybe the conditions more than the actual course? And also what do we know what the riders think about that? Maybe a separate thread...

 

[TourOfSardinia]

 

[lemon cheese cake]

I have watched the race at Bogense several times. The impression may be that the course was relatively dull but the race shows that it had its merits. There were quite a few sections that challenged the riders and the slicky off-camber where Van der Poel attacked Van Aert was relally decisive.

On a separate note - race course design is something that's been on my mind for a while. Does it matter a lot or is it rather the competition that makes the race interesting? Or maybe the conditions more than the actual course? And also what do we know what the riders think about that? Maybe a separate thread...

A mix of all of those really. A naturally tough course like the Koppenberg is going to shape the race much more easily than a flatter one like s'Hertogenbosch where the euros were. Somewhere like that drains quite well, which allows fast racing. That could give large bunch racing if it was quite flowing with arcing corners and long straights even with the small banks at the back of the course. However, the amount of >90 degree corners make it quite staccato and spreads everything out alot more.

A good example of the changes of course conditions is probably Hamme or Hoogeheide. Hamme has had alsorts of conditions over the years from when it was in a different location at Hamme Zogge and was quite muddy, to where it is now. In the fast, where it is now, has stayed quite dry some years, leading to really fast racing, including the well known 2014edition of the sprint between WvA and MVDP. Whereas,on a course that hasn't changed much, this season's edition in January rather than November lead to mud and caused a bit of running and spread the riders out. Hoogeheide has had everything. Dry conditions like last year, icy/frosty grass like in 2017 or deep mud like the last worlds in 2015. That's a course that has stayed relatively the same since it's start/finish moved out from the town centre and onto the bridge, which has turned into the junction and the 'stairway to heaven'. It's varied from alot of running to fast bunch riding like last year.

In elite Men's we tended to see a hard fast lap, then everyone sat up at the end of the first lap. Now we tend to see a hard first lap and then the race is continued with no real let up. That's been the case since the new generation of the likes of vdp, wva, Sweeck and Vanthourenout have come through. But that's less evident when mvdp and wva aren't around.

 

[senna6541]

Funny anecdote: my oldest son (11) had to write a letter to a 'famous person' for school. They said "don't pick football players because they never write back". He chose Mathieu. He wrote he is a fan and watches all his races etc., which is all a blatant lie because all he watches (despite my best efforts) is youtube and tiktok. Anyway, yesterday, he got a nice little letter back from MVDP. I'll make him watch the race Sunday

Van der Poel lives 10 km away from us, by the way, and Van Aert 15 km. I've never seen them train though (but my dad has).

That's pretty cool. I'm hoping to get out to Belgium in the next couple of years to catch MVDP and Wout in cross before it's too late. Must be pretty incredible to see those two ripping up a cross course live. I race (recreationally) on the MTB here in Arizona, USA, and always amazed how fast low level pros are - and then to think a guy like MVDP could literally put 5 minutes into them in 90 minutes - accounting for mid/back row starts...Of course on the women's side we have a few gals that are at the very front in Elite UCI MTB.

 

[Ricco']

Don't do it like me, when I booked my trip to Belgium I chose the dates so I could be there to see VDP race in Overijse (one of my favorite circuits). Two weeks or so before the depart, bam, training camp in Spain (much closer to where I live).

 

[Sciatic]

That's pretty cool. I'm hoping to get out to Belgium in the next couple of years to catch MVDP and Wout in cross before it's too late. Must be pretty incredible to see those two ripping up a cross course live. I race (recreationally) on the MTB here in Arizona, USA, and always amazed how fast low level pros are - and then to think a guy like MVDP could literally put 5 minutes into them in 90 minutes - accounting for mid/back row starts...Of course on the women's side we have a few gals that are at the very front in Elite UCI MTB.

Or you could save a little money and travel to Arkansas exactly a year from now:

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fayetteville2022.com

I' d rather see the world's in Belgium, but Fayetteville is too close to pass up!

 

[Jagartrott]

So... it may snow on Saturday, and then freeze during the night (anywhere between -2 and -5 °C). Then fairly sunny on Sunday, but cool (around 2 °C). Easterly winds (so blowing from land to beach).

 

[Barkintheeye]

Super exciting weekend coming up. Sad that the juniors don’t get to race. No good but at least the rest have a chance to make a mark.

Seeing more details of the track (

View: https://youtu.be/Qo7wjlTxZOc
) it should favour Mathieu. The sand looks tough - really, but probably not a massive match for the top 10 elite men riders.

If the grassy sections stay slippery and hard (cold with possibly minus degrees) skill will be critical and albeit Wout has shown an improving curve it is not his forte as is Van der Poel’s.

My prediction is MVDP with Wout closely second and unsurprisingly Pidcock as third but with Iserbyt just edging at fourth. Any bets against

 

[Mick Dundee]

My prediction is MVDP with Wout closely second and unsurprisingly Pidcock as third but with Iserbyt just edging at fourth. Any bets against

The trudge through the sand and over the bridge will suit Wout better and decide the race from my POV…

1. Wout
2. Mathieu (+30secs)
3. Laurens Sweeck (+2mins)

Don’t think this course will suit Piddles… unfortunately

 

[Spine Concept]

The passage through the sand will definitely be the decisive part of the race. The more I look at the course and see the pros ride it and hear the analysts talk about it the more I’m leaning towards Wout.

The technical sections aren’t technical enough to play to Mathieu’s strengths while the power section, at least from what I’ve seen and heard, seems to play to Wout’s strengths. Especially if they, at some point, have to dismount and run.

The difference is that one mistake in the sand section can make you lose a lot more than a mistake in the “technical” section.

Wout is a better runner and a better sustained power rider imo. I do think Mathieu is the better sand rider (won 11 of the last 13 sandy courses where WvA was also racing) and of course better technically, but this isn’t really comparable to Koksijde where it’s easier to choose a line and rely on technique, this is more straight plowing through the sand it seems.

If they are both in top form than these differences in ability are less visible and it might just come down to one mistake.

My predictions:

1. WvA
2. MvDP
3. Piddy (I think his whole season has been geared towards the worlds and he’s eager to prove he’s true challenger to the big 2)

With that being said I wouldn’t be surprised if Mathieu won either if he’s in top shape and has a clear head. As far as the 3rd spot goes, it has many many challengers. Could be anyone of MvT, Eli, Sweeck, Piddy, Aerts and even Lars.

Ideal scenario would be Wout and Mathieu battling it out in an action-packed edition and a sprint deciding the winner.

 

[Mick Dundee]

Elite Women

1. Brahhhhnd (as Jeremy Powers would say)
2. Alvarado
3. Honsinger

 

[Mick Dundee]

Ideal scenario would be Wout and Mathieu battling it out in an action-packed edition and a sprint deciding the winner.

Hope so too

 

[Axel Hangleck]

Looking at the course, it's a Wout kind of track - were he can put down all that horsepower. You can't ever right Mathieu off unless it's a quagmire - but the course simply doesn't have the technical features that play to his strengths. Pidcock is in a similar position; doesn't have the power of the other two, and his technical skills aren't needed here. In fact, I reckon both of them will only get a hilly, technical track that suits them at the MTB Worlds.
I actually won't be surprised if either Aerts or Sweeck challenge for bronze; they both have the power on the sand sections.

As for the women - who knows? Alvarado is in form, but Brand has been the best rider this season, and has the power for the sand.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Brand
Betsema
Alvarado

Wout
Mathieu
Lars

 

[lemon cheese cake]

Still feeling like it's a Van Der Poel kind of day, but I'm prepared to be proved wrong, followed by van Aert and then Sweeck. Don't think Pidcock will have the upper hand on riders like Sweeck, Vanthourenout Aerts and possibly Van Der Haar for the 3rd spot.

Women's I feel Brand is the biggest threat and then Alvarado. Behind those two, I think Cant might pull out something special and come out on top of the riders behind with Betsema, Worst and maybe Honsinger and Kastelijn for third.

 

[Spine Concept]

Still feeling like it's a Van Der Poel kind of day, but I'm prepared to be proved wrong, followed by van Aert and then Sweeck. Don't think Pidcock will have the upper hand on riders like Sweeck, Vanthourenout Aerts and possibly Van Der Haar for the 3rd spot.

Women's I feel Brand is the biggest threat and then Alvarado. Behind those two, I think Cant might pull out something special and come out on top of the riders behind with Betsema, Worst and maybe Honsinger and Kastelijn for third.

It’s not that I don’t think MvDP can win, because I do, he’s still the best all-round CX racer on the planet regardless of the results at the worlds imo. But just out of curiosity why do you give him the edge on this course?

 

[lemon cheese cake]

It’s not that I don’t think MvDP can win, because I do, he’s still the best all-round CX racer on the planet regardless of the results at the worlds imo. But just out of curiosity why do you give him the edge on this course?

The sand isn't one long continuous ride like in the Belgian nationals at the same venue. It's broken into two where running can be kept to a minimum by carrying alot of momentum. Mvdp is good at this with being able to go anaerobic for a short periods repeatably. These periods of sprinting into the sand to carry momentum plus the short sprints twice a lap up the bridge seem more up his alley than wva, who is more dieselish in cx.

However I'm prepared to be proven wrong. Maybe that consistency from wva will prevail over the anaerobic efforts of mvdp?

 

[Ricco']

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xl--74ubSGA


Rebecca's videos always crack me up.

 

[Spine Concept]

The sand isn't one long continuous ride like in the Belgian nationals at the same venue. It's broken into two where running can be kept to a minimum by carrying alot of momentum. Mvdp is good at this with being able to go anaerobic for a short periods repeatably. These periods of sprinting into the sand to carry momentum plus the short sprints twice a lap up the bridge seem more up his alley than wva, who is more dieselish in cx.

However I'm prepared to be proven wrong. Maybe that consistency from wva will prevail over the anaerobic efforts of mvdp?

It’s a good take on the course, thanks for explaining. The opinions are divided, which is why I was intrigued.

All I know is that I hope it’s not a boring solo ride from the first couple of laps. I need a top form Wout vs a top form Mathieu. Hopefully the latter can keep a level head too leading up to it. Conversely, nothing ever seems to faze Wout both in and outside of the race. He’s got great mentality.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

The sand isn't one long continuous ride like in the Belgian nationals at the same venue. It's broken into two where running can be kept to a minimum by carrying alot of momentum. Mvdp is good at this with being able to go anaerobic for a short periods repeatably. These periods of sprinting into the sand to carry momentum plus the short sprints twice a lap up the bridge seem more up his alley than wva, who is more dieselish in cx.

However I'm prepared to be proven wrong. Maybe that consistency from wva will prevail over the anaerobic efforts of mvdp?

There is a long stretch on the beach in/near the water, which is completely different than what you expect from riding in the sand. Your bike literally gets sucked into the wet sand, it's a power effort and regular sand technique has little to do with it. There is also a good chance there will be a part they will need to run (depending on the tide), which also is in van Aert's advantage. On top of that, the bridge after the sand is said to be really hard (21%) because you start from near stand-still, coming from a hard sand section. So it is a long sustained effort through the sand, up the bridge. The course has no sections where technique will play a part.

 

[lemon cheese cake]

There is a long stretch on the beach in/near the water, which is completely different than what you expect from riding in the sand. Your bike literally gets sucked into the wet sand, it's a power effort and regular sand technique has little to do with it. There is also a good chance there will be a part they will need to run (depending on the tide), which also is in van Aert's advantage. On top of that, the bridge after the sand is said to be really hard (21%) because you start from near stand-still, coming from a hard sand section. So it is a long sustained effort through the sand, up the bridge. The course has no sections where technique will play a part.

Yeah I see where you're coming from, especially seeing the sucky sand in Fahringer's pre ride, compared to White's from yesterday. Although he seemed to go further out (maybe due to riding the whole sand off the bridge) as you say it will depend on the tide where they ride.

Whatever the case, it's certainly not something we've seen before really in a world champs and is going to be a tough race, purely due to the sandy half of the course.