Rafa Nadal

[hrotha]

Do you have a link to that interview?

Nope, sorry, I'm speaking from memory and most likely misremembering things.

 

[Andynonomous]

Prove it.

Silly me expecting an interesting discussion in the clinic, nothing but garbage in this thread. Lots of hate and biased hearsay.

BTW: Rafa just won Roland Garros

Vamos Rafa!!!!

Let me translate that.


"Nadal is from the same country as me and unless you show me smoking gun proof (which the tennis authorities are trying very hard to avoid finding), I will not believe the circumstantial evidence, no matter how strong.

Even if he does get caught, I will give the refrain 'they all do it, so he would have won anyway'".

 

[The Hitch]

BTW: Rafa just won Roland Garros

Yes.

Nadal winning another grand slam and this thread reapearing are totaly unrelated events. A very unlikely coincidence

Silly me expecting an interesting discussion in the clinic, nothing but garbage in this thread. Lots of hate and biased hearsay.


Vamos Rafa!!!!

Considering your fierce hatred towards Armstrong, your trolling people who criticize your heroes (ie Spaniards, surprise surprise chauvinism) is a total joke.

 

[the delgados]

I apologize if this has already been mentioned, but what about Federer?

Compared to the super-hero physique of Nadal, Federer looks like a guy off the street. I mean, there's no muscular definition whatsoever.

 

[Parrulo]

I apologize if this has already been mentioned, but what about Federer?

Compared to the super-hero physique of Nadal, Federer looks like a guy off the street. I mean, there's no muscular definition whatsoever.

indeed

what do people think of federer? is it possible that he is clean?

honestly i would say he looks rather clean.

comparing him to nadal almost makes me giggle

 

[Andynonomous]

Cant say for sure.

indeed

what do people think of federer? is it possible that he is clean?

honestly i would say he looks rather clean.

comparing him to nadal almost makes me giggle

Just as in cycling, when you have a sports authority that is helping protect the cheats, rather than trying to catch them, you can't say for sure who is clean. Federer is the anti-Nadal in many ways however.


Federer gets his power from his legs using proper technique.
Nadal doesn't use his legs at all, and gets his power from his upper body(requires huge upper body strength).

Federer recomends that tennis authorities keep player's drug testing samples for many years.
Nadal says tennis doesn't need any testing at all, because there are no PEDs in tennis.

Federer never complains about drug testing.
Nadal complains constantly, and backs up those who have been caught (Gasquet, Wickmayer, Malisse).

Federer is skinny.
Nadal is bulky.

Federer has a small degredation in his play in 4th and 5th sets.
Nadal runs faster in the 4th and 5th sets, than he does in the first and second sets.

Federer's performance started low when he was young, gradually improved, peaked out in his mid 20s and has been gradually decreasing since.
Nadal's performance jumped up at 17, and has been alternating between winning everything to only winning mostly just clay court tournaments.

Federer's body shape remains constant.
Nadal's alternates between slightly bulky, to massive.

Federer is from Switzerland .
Nadal is from Spain (not that there has never been a Swiss doper, but Spain has a MUCH worse reputation for a reason).

 

[The Hitch]

My accusations against Nadal have been limited to the endurance aspect (rather than the muscle picture shows weve been seeing), but ill go into that quickly before looking at Federers endurance which is underated. Yes he doesnt break down opponents like Nadal, and wins matches quicker but there are other aspects to his endurance that are ignored.

Rusedski didnt look like no Pudzianowski either but he got caught for nandrolone ( a steroid). Same with Becker who has been accused of it.

An important point with Federer is while his serves seem weaker than others - doesnt really go above 205, he has one of the heaviest rackets around, which gives him more control.

If you gave him Roddicks racket those serves would be in the 230 range too.

Consider that he keeps up that power for some very long matches.

In the Wimbledon final of 09 which went 16-14 in the fith, he served a then world record some 50 aces. Half of that was in the last set, . He won because Roddick was after four hour hours absolutely dead, not even bothering to contest points on Federers serve, while Federer kept up the pressure. He basically out-endured Roddick.

He has played many matches where he has out-endured opponents and lets remember this is a sport which the evidence suggests is rife with doping.

The other endurance aspect is the very long term one. He reached the semis in 23 i think it was straight grand slams and the final in 21 of those. Even Nadal got burned out for US Open a few times and at Aussie Open a few times after his winning streaks. Most tennis players do get tired after a few tournaments.

But Federer just went on and on and on and on. Won a hell of a lot of masters titles too and a joint record 5 atp world finals. Santoro was admired for doing 60 straight Grand slams but if you consider Feds got to the final 95% of the time, hes played way more tennis in his 40 straight Grand slam streak.

So Federer clearly has superman endurance. He is obviously very naturaly gifted. Very naturally gifted. Usualy people if they excel, do so at one thing. Federer is the most naturaly gifted tennis player ever born. Are we to belief he was also born with this super endurance available to so few people. Some 1 in a billion special child.

The other point, is a case of "why wouldnt he".

Weve seen the polls and surveys which ask athletes if they would dope and 95% or some such say they would. In cycling they do even when they risk life bans.

Why wouldnt Federer dope is the question. Weve heard on this thread how antidoping is absolutely pathetic in tennis.

Does he have a moral objection. Few athletes do. Is he scared of the sideefects. These are the only 2 reasons i believe why he wouldnt dope, and we dont really know what his views on either of them are.

Federer is suspicious to me. Yes i understand lots of people will react with horror at this post. Say that there is no reason to doubt him. But from what Ive seen in sports, I wont be too quick to dismiss anyone from the possibility of doping.

We know that the media claim that only cyclists dope is a lie. Its just as bad in other sports. We know its just as bad in tennis. Someone who is able to hold a peak for as incredibly long as Federer can, in a sport like tennis, is therefore suspicious to me.

 

[Andynonomous]

56% vs 83%

Federer's lifetime 5 set winning record (longest matches possible in mens tennis) is 56%.

Nadals is 83%. (best in the league).

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=335267


Long matches at Wimbledon are not NEARLY as stressfull on the body as long matches on clay are. The clay point typically takes about 5-10 shots by each player. On grass, it is typically 1-3 shots by each player).

Federer does have pretty good stamina, but Nadal's is MUCH better than Federer's (Nadal's style of play is MUCH more stressful, and he tires LESS than his opponent, even though he runs MUCH farther than his opponent (including when his opponent is Federer).

Fed may be taking something for stamina, but if he does, it's not nearly as good as what Nadal takes.

 

[The Hitch]

Federer's lifetime 5 set winning record (longest matches possible in mens tennis) is 56%.

Nadals is 83%. (best in the league).

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=335267


Long matches at Wimbledon are not NEARLY as stressfull on the body as long matches on clay are. The clay point typically takes about 5-10 shots by each player. On grass, it is typically 1-3 shots by each player).

Federer does have pretty good stamina, but Nadal's is MUCH better than Federer's (Nadal's style of play is MUCH more stressful, and he tires LESS than his opponent, even though he runs MUCH farther than his opponent (including when his opponent is Federer).

Fed may be taking something for stamina, but if he does, it's not nearly as good as what Nadal takes.

But the main point of my post is that Nadal keeps to his peak for a while, while Federer can string half his carreer onto one single peak.

Sure, in one single match, in one tournament, Nadal does better. But like all others, it comes back to hurt him later.

Federer on the other hand, enetered during his 6 year streak, every gs as if it was his first, despite the fact that towards the end he had gone to the final weekend in the previous 20.

I know your not much of a cycling fan, but weve had dopers in this sport, go the Nadal route, like Armstrong of totaly blasting everything in its path every time the Tour came around like Nadal does in April, May June.

But we also had Pantani, doped to the gills do the Giro Tour double, and Contador winning pretty much every race he enters. And this is the Federer.

23 straight semi finals in grand slams of which 21 were finals.

How many times was it that he would reach the final of every single grand slam, win an Indian wells, a madrid masters along the way, then get to the final of the atp world championship (and win all but the French).

Nadal hasnt done this. Last year he won 3 but lost in Aussie QF. Before that he would always fall in 2 or 3 grand slams. hed always struggle with fatigue from previous tournaments.

Federers recovery on the other hand is on the level of Grand Tour cyclists. Now whats this Epo drug they use

 

[Granville57]

what do people think of federer?
honestly i would say he looks rather clean.

Sorry, I just couldn't resist this one.
Dopings doesn't always produce muscle.

 

[jobiwan]

Sorry, I just couldn't resist this one.
Dopings doesn't always produce muscle.

Curse you Granville!!

 

[Barracuda]

What? They stand in the centre of a 10m wide court and unleash powerful and accuratre shots with spin, and moving a few metres to the left or right when need be. The ammount of accuracy power and spin in these shots is what decides whether you win or lose.

Aticipation, which they learn over the yearsm is far more important than speed and the best players dictate play, not allowing their opponent to trouble them. Doping increases your speed by fractions of a second. This wouldnt really help that much in tennis. A lot of the best players today are over 2 metres tall. They arent fast at all. They dont need to be, speed in tennis is a minor factor. It helps you get a few points, perhaps a few important ones, but over the course of the much if your sprinting to every ball you are not going to win.

WTF ...... play the game do ya ???

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Sorry, I just couldn't resist this one.
Dopings doesn't always produce muscle.

It does burn fat however...

Upper body muscle is detrimental to a climber. Rasmussen wanted to avoid putting on muscle and wasn't doing any upper body work.

Novak Djokovic isn't big either, but at least he's defined.

 

[joe1265]

".... was later treated for a blood clot in her lung."


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...williams.wimbledon.ap/index.html?sct=tn_t2_a3

 

[Paco_P]

Federer's lifetime 5 set winning record (longest matches possible in mens tennis) is 56%.

Nadals is 83%. (best in the league).

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=335267

Long matches at Wimbledon are not NEARLY as stressfull on the body as long matches on clay are. The clay point typically takes about 5-10 shots by each player. On grass, it is typically 1-3 shots by each player).

Federer does have pretty good stamina, but Nadal's is MUCH better than Federer's (Nadal's style of play is MUCH more stressful, and he tires LESS than his opponent, even though he runs MUCH farther than his opponent (including when his opponent is Federer).

Fed may be taking something for stamina, but if he does, it's not nearly as good as what Nadal takes.

A closer look at the numbers suggest they don't prove much. According to the link you give, Nadal has a 15 and 3 record in 5 set matches, and Federed has an 18 and 14 record in 5 set matches. Several observations should be made:
1. For each, five of those matches are against the other. Nadal won 4 of the 5.
2. Of Nadal's 18 five set matches, at least 15 were on hardcourts (e.g. US Open). One was in this year's French open. Two were in Rome, which I think is clay, though I'm not sure. So Nadal isn't surviving five set matches on clay - he isn't even playing any.
3. Most of Nadal's five set matches come against players like Isner, Soderling, Youzhny, etc. - big guys who club the ball - Nadal is more skilled, but has trouble with these very powerful guys.
4. Bjorn Borg had a 27/6 record in five set matches. That's a percentage as good as Nadal's, and it's more 5 set matches than Nadal has played - by about 50 percent - in a career no longer. Should we conclude from those numbers Bjorg was doping? (I'm not claiming Nadal isn't doping - I'm arguing that these numbers don't prove anything in that regard).

Nadal's dominance of Federer is probably best explained as it was by his coach (and uncle) - his game is hard for Federer, because Federer's weakness is his backhand. Federer gives up against Nadal, but fitness is not the reason, rather frustration.

 

[lancaster]

Nadal's body "exploded" between his 16th and 17th birthdays according to uncle Toni.
...........
I suspect Nadal has been on a stamina improving regime (likely autologous blood doping) since his early teens(14 or 15), and strength enhancing PEDs from the age of 16.

I agree, tennis does have a problem, but...

lots of people "explode" at puberty (even without doping) it's not exactly evidence.

and to the other point, this is certainly not a defense but any dr or guardian found to be doping (assisting in the doping, allowing the doping) of a child (14yrs) would expect to do BIG prison time (if found out). it amounts to child abuse and very significant breaches of medical ethics.

if uncle toni and dr fuentes have been giving blood transfusions or epo to a healthy child, i'll be shocked and disgusted (unfortunately not as rare as it should be) and hope to see them do long stretches inside.

 

[sars1981]

bottom line is there is no real evidence against him. a guy can look like a doper, which he does, but that's all it is. sports is so ruined by PED's that anyone educated is compelled to be sceptical of everyone - especially the Nadal's of the world. but he's still fun to watch play. Has great heart and passion. I like to practice suspension of disbelief.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief

 

[Señor_Contador]

I've been a bodybuilding fan for many years and am used to seeing the off and on pictures of these bodybuilders and can pretty much say, by looking at their physique, whether they're juicin' or not.

And, from what I've seen, there's no way Nadal is dosing PEDs. Either that or he's got the worst genetics in the world. Which he doesn't. Clear signs that he's not taking PEDs, or at the very least megadosing: Does not have acute acne problems, he does not show traces of an ever receding hair line, does not have bítch tits (look up the term), his bodyweight does not fluctuate more than 10% either up or down, his left arm is bigger than his right arm, which is the most tell-tale sing that he doesn't, as one of PEDs' attributes is to blow up every bodypart, equally (I mean, unless you neglect to train your right arm for whatever reason, which I've never heard anybody do), but especially the lagging bodyparts, like his right arm.

If he's taking anything... I would say it's only the cardio-enhancing stuff. And maybe GH. GH, when combined with IGF1 does a number on the tendons. Many bodybuilders, like Dorian Yates or Ronnie Coleman, suffered muscle tears and tendon-related injuries after, more or less, 6-7 years of mixing the stuff. Look them up.

Rafa's body seems to be "breaking down" in a similar manner. Although he keeps coming back and handing out whoopass cans every time he plays a tournament so... I don't really know.

 

[yourwelcome]

I've been a bodybuilding fan for many years and am used to seeing the off and on pictures of these bodybuilders and can pretty much say, by looking at their physique, whether they're juicin' or not.

And, from what I've seen, there's no way Nadal is dosing PEDs.

Oh OK, that's that settled then.

 

[Andynonomous]

Oh OK, that's that settled then.

Thats right. You KNOW a hyper-partisan Spaniard who has defended other juicing Spaniards like Contador, would NEVER be deluded about a Spaniard like Nadal.

 

[sniper]

bottom line is there is no real evidence against him. a guy can look like a doper, which he does, but that's all it is. sports is so ruined by PED's that anyone educated is compelled to be sceptical of everyone - especially the Nadal's of the world. but he's still fun to watch play. Has great heart and passion. I like to practice suspension of disbelief.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief

?
When he came on the scene, he behaved against all etiquettes of tennis, raising his fists in the opponent's face, waiting extremeley long between first and second service, and other nervy unsportive tricks.
not my type.

 

[hrotha]

Thats right. You KNOW a hyper-partisan Spaniard who has defended other juicing Spaniards like Contador, would NEVER be deluded about a Spaniard like Nadal.

Did you read his post? The part you guys quoted wasn't worded too well, since he isn't talking about PEDs per se but about steroids and the like. Later in that same post he acknowledges the possibility that he does EPO and HGH, among other things.

 

[lancaster]

i think that "traditional medicine" is my favorite oxymoron.

 

[Señor_Contador]

Oh OK, that's that settled then.

Don't be a smart-áss.

Someone, or some people, posted pictures of Nadal as unequivocal proof that he is doping. Since I am a bodybuilding fan and know what people look like when on steroid cycles, seen it for many years, I can say that those pictures show anything but. Meaning the pictures prove the total opposite, that he does not dope.

Now, post me a video of him running around during a 5th set like it's the 1st and then I would say the opposite, that he is taking something.

 

[Señor_Contador]

Thats right. You KNOW a hyper-partisan Spaniard who has defended other juicing Spaniards like Contador, would NEVER be deluded about a Spaniard like Nadal.

Oh, come down from your moral highground stance missy!