Renshaw out

[riobonito92]

As I posted on the other thread, many of us were brought up to believe that if you don't take your hands off the bars and you don't deliberately try to make someone crash, then you might get a DQ but its part of the game.

I don't think the head-butts were exceptional and there was no intent to make the rider crash. That leaves the question as to whether Renshaw was trying to ride Farrar into the barriers or whether it was just an intimidating swerve. It looks to me as if Renshaw fakes to put Farrar into the barriers but there is still a lot of space so there was no likelihood of a crash.

On Versus, Liggett doesn't even mention the headbutts when he is calling the sprint - as if they weren't important.

The other question though is why did Renshaw bother to close the door on Farrar? - Cav was going to win that anyway.

 

[RedheadDane]

I think the worst is Brian Holm's reaction. First he was all "well... Mark crossed a line and if the commisaires thought it was fitting then that's okay"
Then later "No. That's too harsh"
I know he hadn't actually seen the episode when he made the first statement but then he could've just... not commented...

 

[bigloco]

As I posted on the other thread, many of us were brought up to believe that if you don't take your hands off the bars and you don't deliberately try to make someone crash, then you might get a DQ but its part of the game.

I don't think the head-butts were exceptional and there was no intent to make the rider crash. That leaves the question as to whether Renshaw was trying to ride Farrar into the barriers or whether it was just an intimidating swerve. It looks to me as if Renshaw fakes to put Farrar into the barriers but there is still a lot of space so there was no likelihood of a crash.

On Versus, Liggett doesn't even mention the headbutts when he is calling the sprint - as if they weren't important.

The other question though is why did Renshaw bother to close the door on Farrar? - Cav was going to win that anyway.

I think the head butts would have deserved relegation, but taking out another team's main sprinter like Renshawdid will only cause escalations and thus, Renshaw had to go in my opinion...If they set the standard that such behavior only means relegation then if I'm Dean/Hondo/Lloyd, Cavendish WILL be forced to the rails every sprint...that is if I could keep up with him!

As for Liggett, I'm not sure how much that crew can actually see anymore!

 

[tifosa]

Renshaw was wrong four times:

1. A headbut to Dean.
2. Another headbut to Dean.
3. Yet another headbut to Dean.
4. And then he ran Farrar towards the boards.


Is that sprinting? Yeah. Sprinting isn't for pussies. It wasn't FAIR sprinting.

More telling: Renshaw was blatant. He could have nudged Dean and moved past. But nooooooo...

Rensahw played the game, took his chances, and now he's out.

THAT'S sprinting.

Renshaw: Hammer, meet Nail.

 

[max_powers]

One Argy deserves a good Bargy, but the Marky+Mark show got caught with their hands in the cookie jar today.

 

[the vagabond]

Has anybody got a link to a video showing Dean deviating his line?
To me it seems he follows the white line on the road more or less.

I agree - the camera positioning makes it look like Dean is veering left but according to the lines on the road he is not, so the head butting is a little over the top. I disagree that Dean moved off his line, but it is true that he stuck an elbow into Renshaw to TRY to get him to move left.

And he did, finally! He moved left very aggressively five seconds later to block Farrar, which was much more unsportsmanlike. Dean pushed Renshaw's button and Renshaw responded and got what he deserved - relegation would have little or no effect or benefit, whereas this does, even if it was for the wrong reason.

 

[riobonito92]

This decision makes sprinting more dangerous. If a rider (in this case Dean) puts his elbows out and tries to push you off the line AND YOU CAN'T USE YOUR HEAD / SHOULDER then the chance of a crash is higher.

Dean was trying to move Renshaw left to stop him opening a door for Cavendish.

Later, when Renshaw moves left, Farrar has enough space to get past by the barriers and he is already beaten. Renshaw's move was dirty but not particularly dangerous and did not change the result.

Furthermore, Renshaw is safer than many lead-out men. As Cav passes him he continues at speed and is getting out of the way. What is much worse is when the lead-out man pulls off and stops pedalling, endangering everyone behind.

 

[TahoeNL]

Watch the replay - JD clearly comes over Renshaws arm and line. Here's whats so pathetic - JD's explanation "I dropped Farrar off on Cavendish wheel, and was just trying to keep the pace high"... in truth he had no idea that Tyler was not on his wheel anymore! If wanted to lead him out he had 10 meters of clear road do it! there was NO NEED to get anywhere close to Renshaw! And if Tyler Rarrar was a man, he'd admit that clear road or not - today he didn't have the power to beat either Petacchi or Cavendish...

 

[Benotti69]

http://www.youtube.com/user/ozcyclingdotcom#p/a/u/1/mjDzHFcc4-I

seems to handle it pretty well. He's clearly gutted, but no tantrums. So he does seem to have learned quite a bit from the last few months...

this could be a good learning experience for him - he will have to work out how to sneak wins with no leadout a la Robbie McEwan - he is quick enough, but does he have the guile?

After today's performance then if he is on Petacchi's wheel with 300 or less to go then would who would be against him winning?

it'll be interesting to see his reaction in the next bunch sprint. Zabel should be able to keep him calm i imagine and get his head focused, but a lot of blood is pumping and adrenaline when you are going for the line.....

I feel that the 2 guys fighting at the end of the stage were worse as the racing was finished and there they were going fistyhandbags at each other, at least Renshaw was 'racing' and he didn't cause an accident.

If anyone mentions fair in the current situation in relation to procycling get a life....it aint fair Hushvod aint gotta a train like Petacchi or Cav, it aint fair Farrar is sprinting with a damaged wrist..etc......

 

[Oldman]

This decision makes sprinting more dangerous. If a rider (in this case Dean) puts his elbows out and tries to push you off the line AND YOU CAN'T USE YOUR HEAD / SHOULDER then the chance of a crash is higher.

Dean was trying to move Renshaw left to stop him opening a door for Cavendish.

Later, when Renshaw moves left, Farrar has enough space to get past by the barriers and he is already beaten. Renshaw's move was dirty but not particularly dangerous and did not change the result.
Furthermore, Renshaw is safer than many lead-out men. As Cav passes him he continues at speed and is getting out of the way. What is much worse is when the lead-out man pulls off and stops pedalling, endangering everyone behind.

Sounds like you've gone down in a sprint? He moved and slowed down, both very dangerous when you knowingly do it in front of anyone accelerating.

 

[TahoeNL]

Did JD follow his line? Read what Petacchi said, "I saw Renshaw going head to head with Julian Dean but I also saw Dean trying to box Renshaw in." He had a front row seat, you didn't... Some early posted, I think there right - this decision makes sprinting more dangerous, it means that if your getting pushed up against the barriers - to bad. I can't help but wonder if this the tour organizers - finding a way to punish a team and rider (Cavendish) that they don't like?

 

[Mellow Velo]

Ironically, this decision effects Garmin as much as Columbia. They are now going to have to take over Columbia's roll in controlling the breaks.
Their free ride is over.

 

[Benotti69]

The TdF has a history of picking on Cav/HTC, they did it last year when the barriers narrowed the road at a certain point in the sprint and then the road expanded again, it looked like Cav tried to push Hushvod into the barrier and Cav got relegated, but on video evidence Cav kept a straight line, the barriers were badly placed, but they did not rescind the decision and it cost him the green jersey. McEwan head butted O'Grady a few years ago in a sprint and did not get sent home, so it seems TdF are picking on HTC

 

[Parbar]

The overhead view definitively shows that Dean did not keep his line and the head-butts failed to keep Renshaw in line in front of Cavendish. After the third head-****, it is Dean in front of Cavendish and Farrar decided to go to the right. But Dean then moved right cutting off Farrar who had to follow Cavendish to the left where Renshaw saw his chance for some revenge.

 

[powerste]

More telling: Renshaw was blatant. He could have nudged Dean and moved past. But nooooooo...

Rensahw played the game, took his chances, and now he's out.

THAT'S sprinting.

Ding ding ding!

While JD was certainly not faultless, Renshaw made the mistake of being way too overt in his reaction to it.

We can sit here and argue all day about who initiated what, how much JD vs MR is at fault, etc. But MR dug his own grave with three blatantly obvious headbutts followed by a blatantly obvious diversion into Farrar's line.

Renshaw made an example of himself and the organizers followed suit. It may or my not be "fair" but it's certainly not surprising.

 

[Andy99]

Absolutely shocking decision.

From the overhead shot, Dean is clearly leaning his weight on Renshaw, who had to do something to stand his ground.

the cutting up of Farrar was perhaps a little naughty, and probably did deserve some sort of relegation. NO WAY is disqualification justified though.

Cav is certainly gonna have his angry head on now! I forecast a few more wins coming his way!

 

[eireman]

Great Cav fan but Renshaw dangerous and lucky his prey backed off.
Firm line drawn which will hopefully stop this sort of cheating and unacceptable riding. I hope Cav wins more anyway Renshaw didnt need to block.

 

[dolophonic]

What really is shown on the video is that Farrar did not have the jump to go with Cav anyway, when he jumped there was a gap... Ale Jet went the other way and went clear.
I just think that Tyler kind of put himself behind the eightball and was not going round anyway , Renshaw did shut the door a bit but i think it was already over at that point.
Garmin wanted to mess with the bull and they kind of got the horn..... that is the way it goes.

 

[santacruz]

Back when Robbie McEwen was on top of the game, I remember he used his head to hook people and not let them pass, lol. Much safer than swerving though imo.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

I don't think Dean did anything wrong. He edges slightly left for sure but he can only do so because he's ahead of Renshaw and if you're ahead then you can dictate to a certain extent where you're going to sprint. He isn't putting Renshaw in any danger because of course there's loads of room to his left. Renshaw wants to hold the gap for Cavendish but that's not Dean's concern. Bottom line is if you want to hold a gap for a teammate you better be fast enough to do so - Renshaw's problems started because Dean was faster than him today

 

[Highlander]

The TdF has a history of picking on Cav/HTC, they did it last year when the barriers narrowed the road at a certain point in the sprint and then the road expanded again, it looked like Cav tried to push Hushvod into the barrier and Cav got relegated, but on video evidence Cav kept a straight line, the barriers were badly placed, but they did not rescind the decision and it cost him the green jersey. McEwan head butted O'Grady a few years ago in a sprint and did not get sent home, so it seems TdF are picking on HTC

Meanwhile Cav was perhaps the biggest beneficiary when the organizers decided to eliminate all the points except for the winner on Stage 2. If it wasn't for that decision, then Cav wouldn't have any hopes left for the green. I know that there are other factors that went into that decision, but you can't say that Cav didn't profit from it.

 

[Cerberus]

I don't think Dean did anything wrong. He edges slightly left for sure but he can only do so because he's ahead of Renshaw and if you're ahead then you can dictate to a certain extent where you're going to sprint. He isn't putting Renshaw in any danger because of course there's loads of room to his left. Renshaw wants to hold the gap for Cavendish but that's not Dean's concern. Bottom line is if you want to hold a gap for a teammate you better be fast enough to do so - Renshaw's problems started because Dean was faster than him today

There's no right to cut anyone of because you're half a wheel length ahead of them. Cavendish was far further ahead of Ciolek when he cut him of to cause the crash in TdS.

 

[riobonito92]

Sounds like you've gone down in a sprint? He moved and slowed down, both very dangerous when you knowingly do it in front of anyone accelerating.

Disagree - as Cav passes Renshaw, Farrar is gapped, he (Farrar) then swings behind Renshaw, who is still moving at speed and then moves left to try to get past by the barriers. Renshaw moves left but there is still a gap and Renshaw has not noticably slowed. At this point Farrar is well beaten. Renshaw then moves back right, away from Farrar, and stops pedalling after Farrar is alongside.

If you view that incident in isolation it is hardly even a stage DQ. If you view the head-butting in isolation it is a stage DQ but nothing out of the ordinary.

Bad Decision.

And I don't think my prior (and painful) history of crashing has any relevance to my ability to evaluate this incident.

 

[red_flanders]

Clear DQ. Ridiculously illegal sprinting.

 

[MacRoadie]

From Davis Phinney Twitter:

Renshaw headbutting Dean w/ 500m to go, then blocking Farrar... This ain't a Kierin guys. Excessive.