Richard Carapaz discussion thread

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armchairclimber said:
Red Rick said:
Yeah nah Thomas's highest GC in a GT was 15th before the 2018 Tour while he was 32 years old.

Literally the only reason Carapaz is a bigger surprise than Thomas is Carapaz doesn't ride for Sky/Ineos

Although Thomas had been largely a dom up to then hadn't he?


Yeah, but Thomas had also won P-N, Algarve, Bayern-Rundfahrt and Tour of The Alps. One-week races, but it doesnt come as a shock that he would/could be able to be good over 3 weeks when in great form and everything working in his favor.
 
...and Thomas was also 32 and with a previous best of 15th in a GT, albeit as a superdom. Yes, he'd been good in one-week races, but in his only previous attempt to lead a GT he'd exercised his usual tendency to crash at inopportune times (not his fault on that particular occasion, mind) which helped perpetuate the impression of him as not a GC guy. I thought he was George Hincapie Mk II. I still do, despite that he's actually won a Tour de France now - a former cobbles guy who becomes a climber in the service of a bigger national star, starts scoring climbing results in late 20s and then groomed as a successor despite a lack of real GT palmarès. The real shock with Thomas was more that he turned into a GC contender in the first place rather than his win per se, but that he held it together for the full three weeks was pretty surprising in and of itself. While Thomas has a few good one week races, Carapaz has a couple himself, plus some podiums in decent ones - and there are people out there like Špilak, Izagirre and Luísle who are good over one week but don't have the endurance for three. Oh, and Richie Porte, who took how many years to finally actually beat his debut GT result?

Carapaz has had a thread of people talking up his potential since before he even made it to Europe. He won the Vuelta a Colombia for espoirs, and when he came to Europe with Abarcá, Los Frailes put him in the amateur team because of their concern following the Argiro Ospina saga, rather than because they didn't trust him, and he adapted quickly, laid waste to the Spanish amateur scene and did well as a stagiare, being at least reasonably competitive in some decent Italian semiclassics. He was 2nd in the Route du Sud as a neo-pro, and was also 14th to La Pandera and 11th to Angliru in his first Vuelta, to finish 36th overall. Carapaz podiumed Coppi e Bartali and won the Vuelta a Asturias in the warmup to last year's Giro, and won the latter again this year too. He was top 20 while working as a domestique in the Vuelta as well as his 4th in the Giro.

And while Carapaz came to this Giro as effectively a wildcard second-in-command for Landa, Thomas kind of came to that Tour in a similar position; he had been groomed to be replacement leader should Froome not ride, but Froome did ride. And let's also consider the method of winning. Carapaz lost time in the TTs and gained it in the mountains. Thomas, by skillset, you would expect, would have done it the other way round. But he didn't, he won back to back mountaintops, the first time at the Tour since Lance.

But let's also be fair: he has to actually successfully win it first.
 
Re: Re:

Salvarani said:
armchairclimber said:
Red Rick said:
Yeah nah Thomas's highest GC in a GT was 15th before the 2018 Tour while he was 32 years old.

Literally the only reason Carapaz is a bigger surprise than Thomas is Carapaz doesn't ride for Sky/Ineos

Although Thomas had been largely a dom up to then hadn't he?


Yeah, but Thomas had also won P-N, Algarve, Bayern-Rundfahrt and Tour of The Alps. One-week races, but it doesnt come as a shock that he would/could be able to be good over 3 weeks when in great form and everything working in his favor.
True. Honestly, neither Carapaz nor Thomas are/were huge surprises, more like Dumo-level surprises and certainly not Froome/Horner level.
 
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Red Rick said:
Yeah nah Thomas's highest GC in a GT was 15th before the 2018 Tour while he was 32 years old.

Literally the only reason Carapaz is a bigger surprise than Thomas is Carapaz doesn't ride for Sky/Ineos
I remember going into last years tour thinking Thomas could win depending on how froome and dumoulin perform after the giro. I stand with what I said, people who didn't see that performance by thomas coming simply refused to look at what was right in front of their eyes. Thomas won the tours most important preperation race, had the strongest team, a rather weak competition and while he had never proven he would have it over three weeks he had never proven the opposite either and riders who just don't perform over three weeks are actually rather rare.
In my opinion he might have been among the top three favorites going into that tour while carapaz was rated clearly lower than all of Roglic, dumoulin, Yates, Nibali, mal, and landa and that's just a list of clearly bigger pre race favorites.
About the argument that carapaz was fourth last year, right but only because of pinot's and yates' collapse and he was something like 9th before the finestre behind legendary climbers like Patrick Konrad. Carapaz was among the best climbers for two days, that's it. He might have been fourth but that was not the kind of performance you usually get fourth places with
 
Re: Re:

Gigs_98 said:
Red Rick said:
Yeah nah Thomas's highest GC in a GT was 15th before the 2018 Tour while he was 32 years old.

Literally the only reason Carapaz is a bigger surprise than Thomas is Carapaz doesn't ride for Sky/Ineos
I remember going into last years tour thinking Thomas could win depending on how froome and dumoulin perform after the giro. I stand with what I said, people who didn't see that performance by thomas coming simply refused to look at what was right in front of their eyes. Thomas won the tours most important preperation race, had the strongest team, a rather weak competition and while he had never proven he would have it over three weeks he had never proven the opposite either and riders who just don't perform over three weeks are actually rather rare.
In my opinion he might have been among the top three favorites going into that tour while carapaz was rated clearly lower than all of Roglic, dumoulin, Yates, Nibali, mal, and landa and that's just a list of clearly bigger pre race favorites.
About the argument that carapaz was fourth last year, right but only because of pinot's and yates' collapse and he was something like 9th before the finestre behind legendary climbers like Patrick Konrad. Carapaz was among the best climbers for two days, that's it. He might have been fourth but that was not the kind of performance you usually get fourth places with


Carapaz is also 25 and continuing a natural progression to get better and learning.
 
Re: Re:

Gigs_98 said:
Red Rick said:
Yeah nah Thomas's highest GC in a GT was 15th before the 2018 Tour while he was 32 years old.

Literally the only reason Carapaz is a bigger surprise than Thomas is Carapaz doesn't ride for Sky/Ineos
I remember going into last years tour thinking Thomas could win depending on how froome and dumoulin perform after the giro. I stand with what I said, people who didn't see that performance by thomas coming simply refused to look at what was right in front of their eyes. Thomas won the tours most important preperation race, had the strongest team, a rather weak competition and while he had never proven he would have it over three weeks he had never proven the opposite either and riders who just don't perform over three weeks are actually rather rare.
In my opinion he might have been among the top three favorites going into that tour while carapaz was rated clearly lower than all of Roglic, dumoulin, Yates, Nibali, mal, and landa and that's just a list of clearly bigger pre race favorites.
About the argument that carapaz was fourth last year, right but only because of pinot's and yates' collapse and he was something like 9th before the finestre behind legendary climbers like Patrick Konrad. Carapaz was among the best climbers for two days, that's it. He might have been fourth but that was not the kind of performance you usually get fourth places with

I agree with almost all of this whole-heartedly.

Except that I in fact saw Thomas as the biggest favourite going into last year's Tour. I made my case back then but it pretty much fell on deaf ears so I am not going to do that again.

Carapaz winning the Giro is really not something that I had seen coming, and for someone to actually claim that he was a top-tier favourite before the race is just a case of overhyping a rider from an exotic country that almost never shows himself on the big scene. Apparently, he can only race well in late April or May. Unfortunately for him, the gruesome stage 20 is in June.
 
I didn't see this coming, but I'm not finding it completely surprising that he's doing this either. I didn't have him as a favorite, but did see where he should be in the top 10, possibly top 5 in GC with a shot at the podium if everything went his way.
 
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Koronin said:
I didn't see this coming, but I'm not finding it completely surprising that he's doing this either. I didn't have him as a favorite, but did see where he should be in the top 10, possibly top 5 in GC with a shot at the podium if everything went his way.

A lot of "surprises" we see in professional cycling can be explained by age and natural progression. I agree with your earlier comment that Carapaz is only 25 so you kind of answered your own question. He came 4th last year when he was just 24. This is natural progression. Good for him.
 
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Cookster15 said:
Koronin said:
I didn't see this coming, but I'm not finding it completely surprising that he's doing this either. I didn't have him as a favorite, but did see where he should be in the top 10, possibly top 5 in GC with a shot at the podium if everything went his way.

A lot of "surprises" we see in professional cycling can be explained by age and natural progression. I agree with your earlier comment that Carapaz is only 25 so you kind of answered your own question. He came 4th last year when he was just 24. This is natural progression. Good for him.


I agree with you. Also because it 25 he should still have some more room to improve as well.
 
It's not like there is no explanation for carapaz performance. It totally makes sense looking at his steady improvement over the last few years. Nonetheless nobody saw this coming anyway, so it's still a huge surprise
 
Gigs_98 said:
It's not like there is no explanation for carapaz performance. It totally makes sense looking at his steady improvement over the last few years. Nonetheless nobody saw this coming anyway, so it's still a huge surprise

Agreed. But in hindsight we should not be surprised. I think he flew under the radar everyone talking about Roglic, Nibali, Yates and even Landa not the 25 year old that came 4th - 5:44 down on Froome last year. But it is also refreshing to have an Ecuadorian challenging for a Grand Tour victory. Colombia is getting some South American competition. I think this enriches cycling as a global sport.
 
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Red Rick said:
ice&fire said:
Rollthedice said:
Carapaz is to Landa what Landa was to Aru in 2015. Question is can Landa be to Carapaz what Aru was to Landa?
Can Unzué be as ***** as Martinelli was?
Unzué did his very best to match Martinelli in the Tour de France of 2015. In fact, Martinelli walked away with 5 stage wins?
Martinelli openly admits misprizing Lana's ability to win the 2015 Giro d'Italia was the biggest fault of his career! Which tells a lot about his honesty.
 
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rick james said:
The cycling podcast hinted that he’s on a move to another team, one with deep pockets they said, who could they be talking about :surprised:


I would honestly be very surprised if Unzué let Quintana, Landa and Carapaz go all at once... Quintana and Landa seem eager to go - Quintana needs a new environment and Landa finally needs an assured role as a team leader -, I'm unsure why Carapaz would wanna leave as well...
 
Movistar has some hard decisions to make. Valverde is declining so they need a new leader for a huge load of races at some point, which probably means his role needs to be replaced by more like 2 or 3 riders. While Valverde rides I imagine he significantly eats into the budget, and I doubt Landa or Quintana come cheap.