Ryder's blood

[Mrs John Murphy]

The Garmin Loophole, should be worded as, if your past transgressions endanger the team you must talk otherwise SOS.

Garmin as reactive rather than proactive when it comes to breaking omerta.

 

[Master50]

And curiously, his coach at that time had no qualms jabbing him with a needle, regardless of who was watching, out there in the middle of the woods, for lactate testing.

The same coach who is keeping the 40 year old Geoff Kabush close to the top of the heap.

Funny I don't recall Ryder's coach but I am thinking about a certain Dane that was Rolland's coach. You certainly can't mead Dave S? There was no reason for a 16 year old to be taking drugs. We could see Ryder was vey special since he was putting down very similar lap times to an older Roland Green.
I have heard Rolands name attached to suspicion esp the years from his World championships but if you knew him you also have to ask who paid for it? I don't know what GT was paying him but he could afford it while Ryder was not making a lot of money when he was 16.

Of course Roland started as a great junior and won Abitibi. from the tales of those days I think booze was the favoured drug for teenage boys. The talent of these 2 was obvious from the start so the are where they should be.

As for Geoff, I don't really know him except i would put Roland and Ryder a lot higher on the talent scale. I can't get on this bus and Ryder's performance at the Giro was real and consistent with his talent. What changed is he is coming with confidence and the peloton is a lot cleaner too. Thank god for Garmin as I think Ryder was doomed if he could not go back to Europe after his year with Healthnet. You can put me dow as a believer in the team and what they say they are about.

Oh you are gong to love this declaration. I like Pat McQuaid too. As an Anglophone working in the sport, an English speaking president has been very good for those of us that don't speak French.

 

[sniper]

That's not exactly what JV said.

JV quotes:
"I've spoken to all my riders regards to their past."
"If anyone on my team is asked any questions about past doping, by an authority, they are obliged, by their employer to be honest. Policy isn't just for ex-usps riders."

So the riders disclose their past when they join the team and the riders are required to talk to the authorities if they are approached by the authorities.

If you have other quotes, please correct me.

i do think it is what jv said initially.
jv later backtracked on it when posters pointed out inconsistencies, but that's become sort of his trade mark.

 

[goggalor]

you understand that most of the regular clinic forumites are entrenched in their illness. We all know they say the riders are all dopers.
Ryder is a credible winner. He has always had a big engine albeit he can't accelerate to save his life. His talent is consistency and a strong 3rd week.

Dopers aren't credible. If Ryder was MTB world champ clean, then it's conceivable he won the Giro clean as well. If he was dirty on fat tyres... come on.

 

[sniper]

Funny I don't recall Ryder's coach but I am thinking about a certain Dane that was Rolland's coach. You certainly can't mead Dave S? There was no reason for a 16 year old to be taking drugs. We could see Ryder was vey special since he was putting down very similar lap times to an older Roland Green.
I have heard Rolands name attached to suspicion esp the years from his World championships but if you knew him you also have to ask who paid for it? I don't know what GT was paying him but he could afford it while Ryder was not making a lot of money when he was 16.

Of course Roland started as a great junior and won Abitibi. from the tales of those days I think booze was the favoured drug for teenage boys. The talent of these 2 was obvious from the start so the are where they should be.

As for Geoff, I don't really know him except i would put Roland and Ryder a lot higher on the talent scale. I can't get on this bus and Ryder's performance at the Giro was real and consistent with his talent. What changed is he is coming with confidence and the peloton is a lot cleaner too. Thank god for Garmin as I think Ryder was doomed if he could not go back to Europe after his year with Healthnet. You can put me dow as a believer in the team and what they say they are about.

Oh you are gong to love this declaration. I like Pat McQuaid too. As an Anglophone working in the sport, an English speaking president has been very good for those of us that don't speak French.

you're mixing things up.
nobody's saying he aint a real talent.
you know what a talent contador was, at a very early age as well.
history learns that having talent unfortunately doesn't have much influence on one's decision to dope or not.

 

[D-Queued]

Barry has admitted to being a doper. The mountain bikers Roland Green and Sheppard are a given as abusers. The jury is out on Hesjedal. Anyone who was on Symmetrics whether Roadie or mountain biker is given a pass -- that includes Tuft (sorry Dqueued) and Kabush despite the good records. Of other recent retirees Gord Fraser is problematic -- Landis gives him a pass --- Adam Myerson says a doper. I'm in his home town of Ottawa and from what I know I would say not. The recent comments of the President of Cycling Canada on the local program of a national TV network. Can anything be read into who he doesn't mention?

http://www.globaltvbc.com/video/john+tolkamp/video.html?v=2327250866

Unless I misunderstood the nature of a pass,

NOT. A. CHANCE.

Apparently you were too far away from the action in Ottawa to know what was going on.

Dave.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Unless I misunderstood the nature of a pass,

NOT. A. CHANCE.

Apparently you were too far away from the action in Ottawa to know what was going on.

Dave.

Whaaat!? Symmetrics is about as clean as they come. Routley. Pinner. Tuft. Cooper. Evans. Meier. I rode/raced in Vancouver during all the years Symmetrics was active and haven't heard a single story that would raise suspicions. What have you heard?

O'Bee on the other hand...

John Swanson

 

[D-Queued]

Whaaat!? Symmetrics is about as clean as they come. Routley. Pinner. Tuft. Cooper. Evans. Meier. I rode/raced in Vancouver during all the years Symmetrics was active and haven't heard a single story that would raise suspicions. What have you heard?

O'Bee on the other hand...

John Swanson

I like Kirk, but they didn't.

What have I heard? Mum's the word.

Dave.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

I like Kirk, but they didn't.

What have I heard? Mum's the word.

Dave.

Right. No specifics. Symmetrics is dirty because you say so. Mum's definitely the word.

John Swanson

 

[Master50]

Dopers aren't credible. If Ryder was MTB world champ clean, then it's conceivable he won the Giro clean as well. If he was dirty on fat tyres... come on.

There is no proof he doped. He was close to a World Championship but never won one. His development as a roadie final revealed his real talent and that is consistency, endurance and hard work.

The blood values posted tell us nothing without context. most of the so called evidence is rumours from his MTB days. He grew up in Canada so no one really looked at his cycling strengths to see which discipline he was best suited too and he was just so darned fast on an MTB that no one was arguing. His switch to road had some big challenges as the skill sets are different including food and water. He came with good bike skills but only so much translates to the new discipline.

Ryder had to serve his apprenticeship and his years with Phonak and Healthnet might have been more productive if he started road racing at 16. I have no doubt Ryder would have been noticed as a GT rider if he grew up in Europe. I might be a lot less inclined to defend him if that was the case too. 16 year olds were not doping in north America to win bike races they were taking steroids for the 6 pack.

Am I being naive? I have been wrong before and I can be wrong now but I know this man and watched him develop. I have also been working in pro cycling since 1997 and cycling in general since the mid 80s so I have been paying attention for some 27 years.

 

[RetroActive]

There is no proof he doped. He was close to a World Championship but never won one. His development as a roadie final revealed his real talent and that is consistency, endurance and hard work.

The blood values posted tell us nothing without context. most of the so called evidence is rumours from his MTB days. He grew up in Canada so no one really looked at his cycling strengths to see which discipline he was best suited too and he was just so darned fast on an MTB that no one was arguing. His switch to road had some big challenges as the skill sets are different including food and water. He came with good bike skills but only so much translates to the new discipline.

Ryder had to serve his apprenticeship and his years with Phonak and Healthnet might have been more productive if he started road racing at 16. I have no doubt Ryder would have been noticed as a GT rider if he grew up in Europe. I might be a lot less inclined to defend him if that was the case too. 16 year olds were not doping in north America to win bike races they were taking steroids for the 6 pack.

Am I being naive? I have been wrong before and I can be wrong now but I know this man and watched him develop. I have also been working in pro cycling since 1997 and cycling in general since the mid 80s so I have been paying attention for some 27 years.

I believe you're being naive. There's a big difference between the Vic. cycling scene in that era and the Euro. scene. I`m not doubting Ryder`s natural talent but to think that is all that was required to make it to the big show in the 90`s is simply, well, naive.
Roland, from the age of 14, always had an extra gear. The Dane (E.B.) never offered anything up, at least not to me. Nor did anyone else in the Vic.(B.C.)(Can.) scene, not the Italian (R.S.), the brothers (M.W. & B.W.), etc. Europe was a different story.
I never rode with Ryder but I understand where he was coming from and where he wound up and the difference between the two. It`s vast.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Them lies. Everybody are struggling containing the rot.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Funny I don't recall Ryder's coach but I am thinking about a certain Dane that was Rolland's coach. You certainly can't mead Dave S? There was no reason for a 16 year old to be taking drugs.

Apologies, I thought I had been clear, but it was in another post.

His coach was jabbing him with a needle to do lactate testing. It was embarrassing enough that he made mention of joggers etc jogging past and feeling self-conscious about it.

It has nothing to do with doping per se, but sets a precedent.

 

[RetroActive]

Apologies, I thought I had been clear, but it was in another post.

His coach was jabbing him with a needle to do lactate testing. It was embarrassing enough that he made mention of joggers etc jogging past and feeling self-conscious about it.

It has nothing to do with doping per se, but sets a precedent.

lolz, what? A pin *** for lactate testing is miles away from doping with needles.

 

[GJB123]

Apologies, I thought I had been clear, but it was in another post.

His coach was jabbing him with a needle to do lactate testing. It was embarrassing enough that he made mention of joggers etc jogging past and feeling self-conscious about it.

It has nothing to do with doping per se, but sets a precedent.

Really, lactate testing one day, EPO the next day (at age 16)?

 

[DirtyWorks]

Really, lactate testing one day, EPO the next day (at age 16)?

The kid is pretty excited to be in a national level program, the needle comes out during massage therapy and the discussion amounts to "It's safe because I said so." dope or leave the team.

Who the heck knows where the parents are in this disaster.

Bottom line: that horse has already left the barn.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

lolz, what? A pin *** for lactate testing is miles away from doping with needles.

Really, lactate testing one day, EPO the next day (at age 16)?

Yes.

1. Here's how to analyse your blood.
2. Here's how safe and easy it is to stick a needle in yourself for said purposes.

 

[D-Queued]

Right. No specifics. Symmetrics is dirty because you say so. Mum's definitely the word.

John Swanson

Shoot first, ask questions later?

Check your inbox. All your questions answered. Though, perhaps not the answer that your rosy glasses are looking for.

Think of an iceberg. What I haven't said is 10x more than what I have.

Dave.

 

[D-Queued]

...

Am I being naive? ...

I dunno. But, you certainly don't appear to have much information.

Dave.

 

[RetroActive]

The kid is pretty excited to be in a national level program, the needle comes out during massage therapy and the discussion amounts to "It's safe because I said so." dope or leave the team.

Who the heck knows where the parents are in this disaster. That horse has already left the barn.

Where are you guys getting this info.? The (junior) national team was doping it's riders? I never saw it, granted I'm 9 yrs. older than Ryder but that would be on helluva' culture change.
It was all innocent fun in Canada, from my experience.

 

[RetroActive]

Yes.

1. Here's how to analyse your blood.
2. Here's how safe and easy it is to stick a needle in yourself for said purposes.

The only thing you're actually telling us is that you've never had a lactate test and you're making **** up.

 

[workingclasshero]

Yes.

1. Here's how to analyse your blood.
2. Here's how safe and easy it is to stick a needle in yourself for said purposes.

i like a critical voice but this is utter madness Dear Wiggo, trying to create a link between lactate testing and doping does no good for your credibility

 

[Dear Wiggo]

The only thing you're actually telling us is that you've never had a lactate test and you're making **** up.

The only thing you're telling us is you like to make it personal. Nationalistic pride can do that, eh?

You're wrong on both counts.

 

[will10]

Apologies, I thought I had been clear, but it was in another post.

His coach was jabbing him with a needle to do lactate testing. It was embarrassing enough that he made mention of joggers etc jogging past and feeling self-conscious about it.

It has nothing to do with doping per se, but sets a precedent.

What planet....

Newsflash: Lactate testing is a gateway drug to EPO and blood transfusions. Jesus.

 

[peterst6906]

The only thing you're actually telling us is that you've never had a lactate test and you're making **** up.

+1. As a coach, he seems to have little knowledge of this.

Granted, having had a lactate test in Russia where a razor blade was the standard method to draw blood, there are different approaches going around, so maybe in Canada they use a full needle (the only blood I had drawn in Canada was with a vaccutainer, which did involve a needle - but was for acetylcholinesterase activity testing, not for lactate - so maybe it's possible but very unlikely).