How To Say my name! Pronunciation thread

[Logic-is-your-friend]

But Jorgenson is American, so pronouncing his name in Danish would be wrong.

If a name originally comes from [country A], but a specific family has been living in [country B] for several generations, then it would be silly to insist they should continue pronouncing it the way it's done in [country A].

Why would that be silly? So if your first son moves to Hong Kong and starts a family there and your second son moves to Texas and starts a family there, you will be pronouncing the names of your grandchildren completely differently? Right. And if Jorgenson came from Texas and talked like a hillbilly, do we have to say it with that accent as well?

 

[hrotha]

No, because surnames are a far more recent phenomenon.

Seems like a very arbitrary distinction to me, but ok

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I would argue that that was the name. But assimilation is a thing, and denying that it has happened serves no purpose.

Pronunciation is necessarily a by-product of accent: to cite the example of O'Connor that I referred to earlier, should all those with different regional accents in the English speaking world abandon their native accent to produce the word as it is said in Galway? And should they be spelling it Ó Conchobhair?

No because that was never the name.

 

[RedheadDane]

Why would that be silly? So if your first son moves to Hong Kong and starts a family there and your second son moves to Texas and starts a family there, you will be pronouncing the names of your grandchildren completely differently? Right. And if Jorgenson came from Texas and talked like a hillbilly, do we have to say it with that accent as well?

Well, in that case the sons, who grew up in the country of origin, would probably still be pronouncing it in the way it's pronounced in the country of origin.
However, a few generations later, yes; the descendants of each son will likely be pronouncing their name quite differently from their distant cousins over in a completely different country, and their distant cousins back in the country of origin.

It's kinda funny to me that you seem rather insistent that Jorgenson should pronounce his name in the original Danish way - even though his family hasn't lived in Denmark for generations - while we are two Danes pointing out that it's perfectly fine that he pronounces his way in an Americanised way.

(BTW, his family is originally from Denmark? Not Norway?)

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Well, in that case the sons, who grew up in the country of origin, would probably still be pronouncing it in the way it's pronounced in the country of origin.
However, a few generations later, yes; the descendants of each son will likely be pronouncing their name quite differently from their distant cousins over in a completely different country, and their distant cousins back in the country of origin.

So you feel that after all is said and done, the person who's name it is, actually decides how his name is pronounced then? Yes? In that case...

... you can pronounce my name as Lord Ironballs Funkydoodle The Third.

Appreciate it.

 

[RedheadDane]

So you feel that after all is said and done, the person who's name it is, actually decides how his name is pronounced then?

Yes, and that if a family moves to a different country, it's just natural that over time the pronounciation of their name will change.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Yes, and that if a family moves to a different country, it's just natural that over time the pronounciation of their name will change.

It may be natural that THEIR pronunciation of the name could change. Still doesn't make it the correct pronunciation. If they develop a lisp, will you also start pronouncing it like that?

 

[AmRacer]

Why would that be silly? So if your first son moves to Hong Kong and starts a family there and your second son moves to Texas and starts a family there, you will be pronouncing the names of your grandchildren completely differently? Right. And if Jorgenson came from Texas and talked like a hillbilly, do we have to say it with that accent as well?

I usually pronounce Remco Evenepoel in Chinese.

 

[RedheadDane]

It may be natural that THEIR pronounciation of the name could change. If they develop a lisp, will you also start pronouncing it like that?

Yes... totally the same... the fact of the matter is that Matteo Jorgenson is part of a family that has been living in the USA for several generations, and you can't expect them to continue pronouncing their name in the way it's done in a completely different country.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Yes... totally the same... the fact of the matter is that Matteo Jorgenson is part of a family that has been living in the USA for several generations, and you can't expect them to continue pronouncing their name in the way it's done in a completely different country.

Why not? My surname is French, i'm Flemish. My great great grandfather already lived in Flanders, we still pronounce the name the correct way. What is the big deal of parents teaching their kids how to pronounce their own name?

 

[AmRacer]

Why not? My surname is French, i'm Flemish. My great great grandfather already lived in Flanders, we still pronounce the name the correct way. What is the big deal of parents learning their kids how to pronounce their own name?

But you guys are fluent in French.

 

[RedheadDane]

Why not? My surname is French, i'm Flemish. My great great grandfather already lived in Flanders, we still pronounce the name the correct way. What is the big deal of parents learning their kids how to pronounce their own name?

What's the big deal about people pronouncing their name in a way that makes sense in the country they live in?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

What's the big deal about people pronouncing their name in a way that makes sense in the country they live in?

It doesn't make more sense to pronounce a foreign name that way, because it is most likely meaningless in that language regardless of the pronunciation. But if this is the argument you want to cling to, then why make a big deal about not spelling something correctly for instance. One is correct, the other isn't. Ilmaestro, your saviour.

 

[RedheadDane]

It doesn't make more sense to pronounce a foreign name that way, because it is most likely meaningless in that language regardless of the pronunciation. But if this is the argument you want to cling to, then why make a big deal about not spelling something correctly for instance. One is correct, the other isn't. Ilmaestro, your saviour.

By that... logic... we should be spelling Jorgenson's name as 'Jørgensen', as that's how it's spelling in the original Danish way.
However, at some point after the family moved to the USA, the spelling got changed to 'Jorgenson'... just like... you got it... the pronounciation.
Of course, if they had made an effort to continue pronouncing their name in the original Danish way - and kept the spelling - that would have been perfectly fine too. But, well... they didn't...

Does it really matter if he pronounces his name differently from, say... Adam Holm Jørgensen?
Of course, in Adam's case he might mostly be using just 'Holm'...

 

[Izzyeviel]

Now Logic understands how native english speakers feel when we hear aussies talk about 'dayboos' & americans talk about 'vases & two mates oh'

 

[Netserk]

Both are just the social convention with least friction. It's a balance between a common standard that everyone is expected to follow and coordinate around, while keeping it flexible and local to the group who needs to cooperate.

Brits and Americans don't need to spell all words the same, but it'd be a mess if there were 10 different spelling systems of English in Britain.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

By that... logic... we should be spelling Jorgenson's name as 'Jørgensen', as that's how it's spelling in the original Danish way.
However, at some point after the family moved to the USA, the spelling got changed to 'Jorgenson'... just like... you got it... the pronounciation.
Of course, if they had made an effort to continue pronouncing their name in the original Danish way - and kept the spelling - that would have been perfectly fine too. But, well... they didn't...

Does it really matter if he pronounces his name differently from, say... Adam Holm Jørgensen?
Of course, in Adam's case he might mostly be using just 'Holm'...

Doez itt relly mater ass lonk ass yo knoew wat i meen?

 

[RedheadDane]

Doez itt relly mater ass lonk ass yo knoew wat i meen?

It literally doesn't hurt anyone that the Jorgenson family living in Boise, Idaho pronounces - and spells - their name in quite a different manner than any random Jørgensen family living somewhere in Dennmark.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

It literally doesn't hurt anyone that the Jorgenson family living in Boise, Idaho pronounces - and spells - their name in quite a different manner than any random Jørgensen family living somewhere in Dennmark.

Burt it alzo donent hurs zanzione?

 

[Lurkerman]

It's funny to me that Benji Naesen kept on correcting Patrick Broe whenever they discussed Paul Seixas on LRCP, due to Benji disagreeing with how Patrick is naturally bent on pronouncing "Seixas" in the "Portugese way". Patrick has realized that it'll ruin their podcast if they have to spend THAT much time on how to pronounce his name every time he gets a deccent placement in a race, so now he has just capitulated to Benji's way of saying it. Except that he can't quite say it just like Benji does it, due to his Aussie accent. So now he literally just calls him "Paul Sex-Ass". Now, instead, it's the people who complain about this vulgar name in their comment sections

 

[RedheadDane]

Burt it alzo donent hurs zanzione?

Why is it so important to you that an American guy pronounces his name in Danish, just because a some of his ancestors at some point came from Denmark?

 

[Hugh Januss]

Why is it so important to you that an American guy pronounces his name in Danish, just because a some of his ancestors at some point came from Denmark?

I think what's really important to Logic is never losing an argument.

 

[bNator]

I think what's really important to Logic is never losing an argument.

There’s a fine line between not losing and refusing to acknowledge you lost to the point everyone gets tired of playing and you’re just the last man standing.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

There’s a fine line between not losing and refusing to acknowledge you lost to the point everyone gets tired of playing and you’re just the last man standing.

There would first have to be an actual argument in order to lose it. I have yet to read a valid argument. Language matters, pronunciation matters, names matter. The core concept of names is to identify people and to determine lineage, over time and regardless of location. In most countries you inherit your surname from your father. This is... wait for it... the same name. Not "almost" the same name or "close enough". The same. Whether you inherit your name from your father, your mother or both doesn't change the concept.
When you move from one country to another, your name nor its pronunciation changes. Subsequently your name also shouldn't change when you have children, because they inherit your name(s). And so on. Whether you, your children or your environment are incapable of pronouncing your own name does not change your name, it simply means it is being mispronounced. My accent, potential speech impediment or lack of interest do not change my name.
The fact that names aren't supposed to change further shows from its spelling which remains consistent throughout centuries. And no, lazy officials who are unwilling to type an accent or letter that is not on their keyboard by default are not an argument.
If names were supposed to change and don't really matter, then we would all be allowed to pick a surname for our children just like we pick a first name.

And while I agree that language evolves, that should not be an alibi to not even try and pronounce it to the best of our abilities and yes, some times that requires just a little bit of effort.

 

[RedheadDane]

Mods... admins... can we have that eye-roll reaction yet?