Schlecks Depreciation Thread

[roundabout]

This



Bruyneel has no obligation to allow Frank to ride the Tour; honestly, if he is selfish enough (and we all know he is) he will not let Frank ride the Tour. Maybe Vuelta with decent result as a condition for 2013 Tour

You are right, it's possible that Bryneel is dim enough not to start with the 9 best riders.

What Frank may not be acceptable and does deserve some sort of punishment, but not taking him to the Tour would not be the best decision.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

You are right, it's possible that Bryneel is dim enough not to start with the 9 best riders.

What Frank may not be acceptable and does deserve some sort of punishment, but not taking him to the Tour would not be the best decision.

There is only one reason to select Frank Schleck IMO and it's because Andy would go nuts if he wasn't. Frank may be the second best guy on the team, but there are no sportive grounds to select him. He only holds the team leader back and keeps him from potentially winning the TDF, as was the case last year.

 

[roundabout]

http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=12923

If Andy wants to have any chance of doing well he needs a rider on his team capable of detonating the race.

 

[henryg]

This is going to be a real soap opera.

Johann and the Schlecks really deserve each other. Sucks for the rest of the team but no sympathy for Bruyneel and the brats.

 

[simoni]

Last year in the first 2 weeks he was better than Andy but he didnt want to drop his brother at Pyrenees.

Apart from when he attacked on Luz Ardiden. Gaining time.


I find it amazing that Bruyneel has fallen out with his best riders.

But the Schlecks will ride the Tour. Mr Becca will ask some very interesting questions if he doesn't.

 

[Christian]

But the Schlecks will ride the Tour. Mr Becca will ask some very interesting questions if he doesn't.

This brings up an interesting question. Who is really in charge at this team? Bruyneel? Becca? Schlecks? I think no one really knows. It seems to us like it's Bruyneel, but let's not forget that officially, he is just a "management consultant" and so there should be some people who could theoretically overrule him. This makes his position a lot more fragile than we might think. Another example of the confusing power structures, hierarchies and allegiances that exist within this team.

Which side is Becca on? Schlecks or Bruyneel? I suppose we will find out soon enough. How much more can Bruyneel p*ss off the Schlecks and vice-versa before heads are starting to roll? And whose will it be? Unfortunately for Bruyneel I cannot imagine a positive outcome for him in this one. Let's not forget Becca has a history of dropping team managers like hot potatoes

 

[wheels of fire]

You are right, it's possible that Bryneel is dim enough not to start with the 9 best riders.

What Frank may not be acceptable and does deserve some sort of punishment, but not taking him to the Tour would not be the best decision.

One should see that Frank was closest to win at 2008 when Andy was not riding GC. Andy was closest at 2010 when Frank crashed out.

Its clear that they are slowing each other. Andy is little bit better, however they dont happen to be at their best at the same mountain stage. One waits other and they both lose.

Any case their boss wont be happy. JB tried to get at least some result at Giro for world tour points since he knew that TDF is out of scope this year due to route and form of the brothers.

Also their brother tactic dont work anymore. We have seen it last year. Everyone knows that Andy is the leader but Frank do not do domestic work. He dont go for GC for himself either.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=12923

If Andy wants to have any chance of doing well he needs a rider on his team capable of detonating the race.

I'm not sure what that result is supposed to show, or how it contrasts with the Tourmalet stage Andy won. Clearly Frank only slowed them down.

 

[Angliru]

This brings up an interesting question. Who is really in charge at this team? Bruyneel? Becca? Schlecks? I think no one really knows. It seems to us like it's Bruyneel, but let's not forget that officially, he is just a "management consultant" and so there should be some people who could theoretically overrule him. This makes his position a lot more fragile than we might think. Another example of the confusing power structures, hierarchies and allegiances that exist within this team.

Which side is Becca on? Schlecks or Bruyneel? I suppose we will find out soon enough. How much more can Bruyneel p*ss off the Schlecks and vice-versa before heads are starting to roll? And whose will it be? Unfortunately for Bruyneel I cannot imagine a positive outcome for him in this one. Let's not forget Becca has a history of dropping team managers like hot potatoes

So Becca consulted with Bruyneel before demoting Andersen? It appeared Bruyneel was making all of these managerial decisions and then acting as the spokesperson when the media wanted a response from the team. This doesn't sound like a consultant, it sounds more like someone who is calling the shots.

 

[roundabout]

I'm not sure what that result is supposed to show, or how it contrasts with the Tourmalet stage Andy won. Clearly Frank only slowed them down.

Ok, so Andy alone would have got a bigger gap?

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Ok, so Andy alone would have got a bigger gap?

Yes. Frank Schleck only took a few turns on the false flat descent towards the end. Andy did most of the work. Frank obviously slowed Andy down on the Colombiere. He almost got dropped, in fact.

 

[Marco Pantani]

http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=12923

If Andy wants to have any chance of doing well he needs a rider on his team capable of detonating the race.

On that stage, Andy did, as always, the majority of the work. Man, he could have been a minute clear with contador, if not he had to wait for Fränk to finally drop Armstrong.

Andy doesn't need Fränk to win, Fränks absence would be positive. I'm hoping for years, he gets rid of his bros poisoned instructions.

 

[Christian]

So Becca consulted with Bruyneel before demoting Andersen? It appeared Bruyneel was making all of these managerial decisions and then acting as the spokesperson when the media wanted a response from the team. This doesn't sound like a consultant, it sounds more like someone who is calling the shots.

Yes he has been calling the shots so far, but officially he is not in charge of the team. If you look at the UCI website he is not even listed, I think they put Guercilena as general manager. That was a consecuence of the merger I believe, for some reason it was not possible otherwise. There was an article about it a while ago but I can't find it right now, maybe someone else remembers it. Bruyneel's official title is management consultant.

Anyways my point being even though he calls the shots he is in a fragile position and can be overruled or even overthrown by others at any time. He has been making unpopular decisions such as demoting Andersen and splitting up the Schleck brothers. Becca gave him the go-ahead, hoping that Bruyneel knew what he was doing and that it would all eventually pay off. Now the mood in the team if the worst it's ever been and there are no prospects of success any time soon. My question is how long can he keep making these unpopular decisions before Becca/Schlecks lose patience? If he was the boss he could continue his strategy and hope it would eventually show results. I could well imagine that Becca is going to pull rank soon and have Bruyneel come back to the classic approach when dealing with the Schleck brothers

/edit: Here is the article:

In fact, to date, Johan Bruyneel is NOT listed on the uci.ch website as the team manager. Why? because technically, according to the UCI, he’s not. He’s not an employee of Leopard. He’s a management consultant. In fact, if the UCI holds to its rules, Bruyneel requires special permission to be in the team car for races.

The UCI approved this unprecedented team structure, much to the dismay of many teams in the pro peloton. It set a very bad precedent.

http://cyclismas.com/2012/03/radios...bontrager-livestrong-more-than-meets-the-eye/

http://www.uciworldtour.com/Modules...s/UCI/UCI2/layout.asp?MenuId=MTYzMDE&LangId=1

 

[thehog]

Yes he has been calling the shots so far, but officially he is not in charge of the team. If you look at the UCI website he is not even listed, I think they put Guercilena as general manager. That was a consecuence of the merger I believe, for some reason it was not possible otherwise. There was an article about it a while ago but I can't find it right now, maybe someone else remembers it. Bruyneel's official title is management consultant.

Anyways my point being even though he calls the shots he is in a fragile position and can be overruled or even overthrown by others at any time. He has been making unpopular decisions such as demoting Andersen and splitting up the Schleck brothers. Becca gave him the go-ahead, hoping that Bruyneel knew what he was doing and that it would all eventually pay off. Now the mood in the team if the worst it's ever been and there are no prospects of success any time soon. My question is how long can he keep making these unpopular decisions before Becca/Schlecks lose patience? If he was the boss he could continue his strategy and hope it would eventually show results. I could well imagine that Becca is going to pull rank soon and have Bruyneel come back to the classic approach when dealing with the Schleck brothers

/edit: Here is the article:



http://cyclismas.com/2012/03/radios...bontrager-livestrong-more-than-meets-the-eye/

http://www.uciworldtour.com/Modules...s/UCI/UCI2/layout.asp?MenuId=MTYzMDE&LangId=1

Part of the problem has been time. Normally Bruyneel is a very hands on manager not only being in the team car at races but also training and driving with the rider then they train. Since joining Leopard he hasn’t had the time to do this. The investigation and other legal type issues have stopped him from travelling like he wanted to. The Shlecks train together and haven’t changed much in regards to the preparation to last year. Bruyneel has been unwilling to travel to Luxemburg to work with them as he has now moved to London. The Shleck became disenchanted because Bruyneel had them on the TT bikes all winter and he wasn’t even there to watch their progression. The Giro fiasco is not all Frank’s fault. JB called him up for the Giro and didn’t plan to attend until the end of the ToC. When he was subpoenaed in San Francisco he turned up earlier than expected.

Splitting Anderson and the Shleck’s up for the Tour and trying to drive a wedge between the brothers won’t work. They simply don’t trust him. If he’d been around more he they might think there is some merit in his method. I agree with some of the posters that they do perform better without each other but trying to break them apart won’t work. We’ve all seen the way they ride. They want to be together at all times. You can’t break family bonds like that. You have to find a way for them to ride together and make it work – it’s the only way.

Edit: the reason he’s not part of the team was the Federal investigation which at the time was expected to indict. The UCI didn’t want Bruyneel to be an official part of the team hence why he’s a management consultant.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Oh yeah. Even better: leave Andy out too. Klöden and Horner co-captains for the GC. I would laugh so hard at that.

Yeah, and let them ride the Vuelta

 

[LaFlorecita]

On that stage, Andy did, as always, the majority of the work. Man, he could have been a minute clear with contador, if not he had to wait for Fränk to finally drop Armstrong.

Andy doesn't need Fränk to win, Fränks absence would be positive. I'm hoping for years, he gets rid of his bros poisoned instructions.

Yes. He rode best when Fränk wasn't there (2010). Yet Andy himself believes that he has a better chance with Fränk.

 

[roundabout]

Yes. Frank Schleck only took a few turns on the false flat descent towards the end. Andy did most of the work. Frank obviously slowed Andy down on the Colombiere. He almost got dropped, in fact.

No, Frank pulled on the Romme and a bit on the Colombiere. He also didn't "almost get dropped".

Like it or not, on a good day he is one of the best climbers in the world. If he can be convinced to forget about his own ambitions he can be a major asset to Andy especially on the route like 2012.

 

[Christian]

Like it or not, on a good day he is one of the best climbers in the world.

Yes I must agree with that ... if you look at some of his best results I think it is a logical conclusion. He has been right up there with the best at TdF queen stages for several years, like Galibier, Le Grand Bornand and Mont Ventoux. Of course those are not necessarily the hardest climbs in the world and his competition weren't always the best climbers in the world. But it should count for something. And that's not even considering his win on Alpe d'Huez which resulted from a breakaway and his performances in Tour de Suisse.

 

[simoni]

So Becca consulted with Bruyneel before demoting Andersen? It appeared Bruyneel was making all of these managerial decisions and then acting as the spokesperson when the media wanted a response from the team. This doesn't sound like a consultant, it sounds more like someone who is calling the shots.

Thats different - thats just operational stuff.

Not picking one of your two best GT riders in the biggest GT of the lot is certainly not going to sit well with owners and sponsors is it?

Its inconceiveable that both Schlecks won't be at the tour provided they're healthy. It also seems unlikely they'll be racing in the same team as Bruyneel next year.

 

[simoni]

Yes I must agree with that ... if you look at some of his best results I think it is a logical conclusion. He has been right up there with the best at TdF queen stages for several years, like Galibier, Le Grand Bornand and Mont Ventoux. Of course those are not necessarily the hardest climbs in the world and his competition weren't always the best climbers in the world. But it should count for something. And that's not even considering his win on Alpe d'Huez which resulted from a breakaway and his performances in Tour de Suisse.

In the context of a grand tour he's one of the best climbers in the world. His results since 2006 at the TdF simply can't be argued with in that regard.

 

[airstream]

I wouldn't be surprised if Frank wont be included in tour squad (in case the initial idea on Frank in the Giro was Bruyneel's initiave rather than sponsors' requirement). Bryuneel achieved too many great things to doubt in his own rightness. Frank committed a really stupid thing. He had to lose say 5 min on Cervinia for plausibility. Now the abandon looks like a clear private arbitrariness.

LaF, Andy is preparing to wear MJ on my user pic.

 

[LaFlorecita]

LaF, Andy is preparing to wear MJ on my user pic.

Nice for him.

Alberto is kissing Sexybank logo on pink jersey in my userpic.

For the Tour I will have Alberto in yellow jersey pic.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

No, Frank pulled on the Romme and a bit on the Colombiere. He also didn't "almost get dropped".

Like it or not, on a good day he is one of the best climbers in the world. If he can be convinced to forget about his own ambitions he can be a major asset to Andy especially on the route like 2012.

The Romme isn't exposed at all. It hardly mattered. As for him being in difficulties on the Colombiere... I thought it was obvious. Just saw the footage again on YouTube. I knew I didn't imagine it.

Anyway, I rate his abilities as a climber highly, but he can't forget about his own ambitions. That's the problem. He will go into the Tour de France thinking he's one of the two team leaders and he will act accordingly. Of course if I believed he could forget about it, I'd agree wholeheartedly.

 

[airstream]

I think the thing is not about Frank forgetting his ambitions, but about Andy forgetting Frank's ambitions.

 

[Christian]

Fränk Schleck: I am not doing better

"I am not doing better. My right shoulder is completely inflamed. On Monday evening I will take a plane back to Luxembourg. There, I will undergo an MRI. It is certain that it simply couldn't go on and that I had to abandon. I have said everything about the crash."

http://www.wort.lu/de/view/ein-regelrechtes-pulverfass-4fba5ab0e4b0c57bdfa0617c