Stage 16: Ponte Di Legno-Val Martello/Martelltal (139 km)

[yetiyeti]

Just penalize Quintana and others for the time gap they gained from the time they started their descent to the time when the race was no longer "neutralized". Then Quintana can smash Uran again - it will be fun to watch.

By the way, I don't see why guys should be expected to stop to put on more layers just because other guys can't handle the conditions - so the time that Uran and others stopped to put on their mittens should not be an adjustment.

Quintana and Hesjedal and Rolland were just stronger on the day - and it wasn't just due to a fast descent - it seems that they simply managed to deal with the cold and altitude better than the others. It also seems that a lot of riders wanted a neutralization because they couldn't handle it.

The cold is brutal, but it's part of the Giro - get over it.

 

[Publicus]

Just penalize Quintana and others for the time gap they gained from the time they started their descent to the time when the race was no longer "neutralized". Then Quintana can smash Uran again - it will be fun to watch.

By the way, I don't see why guys should be expected to stop to put on more layers just because other guys can't handle the conditions - so the time that Uran and others stopped to put on their mittens should not be an adjustment.

Quintana and Hesjedal and Rolland were just stronger on the day - and it wasn't just due to a fast descent - it seems that they simply managed to deal with the cold and altitude better than the others. It also seems that a lot of riders wanted a neutralization because they couldn't handle it.

The cold is brutal, but it's part of the Giro - get over it.

From what I've understood from comments from the riders who did stop, it was to put on extra-clothing to offset the prolonged cold due to the controlled/slowed descent. So if they had not been told it would be controlled/slowed, they wouldn't have stopped. At least that is the implication.

 

[Arnout]

From what I've understood from comments from the riders who did stop, it was to put on extra-clothing to offset the prolonged cold due to the controlled/slowed descent. So if they had not been told it would be controlled/slowed, they wouldn't have stopped. At least that is the implication.

But neutralization would've never meant "we go slow enough so people that stop can get back at breakneck speed". Neutralization in my opinion means that gaps are maintained and the race organizer dictates the pace in order to preserve the order of the race.

 

[damian13ster]

Well, I dont know why everybody here except few claim that Velo didnt inform race organizers that Quintana, Rolland and Hesjedal passed him. There is a huge possibility IMO that he did, but the penalty for that would be DQ. And although that would be fair (post stage interviews from Rolland and Quintana show that they are both full of ****) there would be an outrage even bigger than the current one so instead they just decided to stick their heads in theit *** and pretend nothing happened. I actually would love if all of the teams but Rolland's and Quintana's (Garmin admitted they though it was neutralized as well) just stopped riding.

 

[l.Harm]

According to the DS of OPQS, interviewed by Sporza, all teams agreed to correct the result and only take the times at the end of the descend of the Stelvio. Also Movistar would have agreed on this. They went to the jury with this, but they did not agree (so far). Interesting development.

 

[Broth3r]

Even if what Marco Velo said was true, this isn't F1. A red flag signals danger, not race neutralization. And hell, for all we know, the bike may have been going too slow and the group may have considered it dangerous.

Honestly though, none of that matters to me. The first and biggest mistake of the organization was even thinking about neutralizing the descent, the horrid execution was just a consequence of a silly idea. The race was completely broken at that point, they'd need 50 bikes to make it happen.

So it's not surprising that I think if Quintana and Co. just wanted to bloody race, rain water, snow or dumb officials, they were in the right.

 

[damian13ster]

Bull****. I am not arguing with you that what race organizers did wasnt stupid although many people with hypothermia and fingers frozen solid on top of Stelvio would probably disagree, but saying that they were in right while attacking (Rolland claims Quintana did, Quintana that Rolland), passing a motorcycle with a red flag, clearly lying that they didnt see that motorcycle (while driver states that Quintana signalled him and passed him + the moto doesnt drive incogniot. It has lights and red flag). How the **** is that being in the right?

 

[Publicus]

But neutralization would've never meant "we go slow enough so people that stop can get back at breakneck speed". Neutralization in my opinion means that gaps are maintained and the race organizer dictates the pace in order to preserve the order of the race.

I don't think I mentioned the words neutralization. I just passed along a paraphrase/summary of the riders thinking at the time. If you disagree with their on the road assessment, best to take it up with them

 

[cineteq]

There you go, they read my post:
@CyclingUptodate: #Giro Teams want Rolland, Hesjedal and Quintana's time corrected by 2 minutes.

 

[christopherrowe]

From the live ticker at CN on today's stage:

Belgian TV are reporting that all the teams have put forward a suggestion to the UCI to take away the time gained on the Stelvio descent. That would be around 2 minutes and would hand Rigoberto Uran the pink jersey back, albeit by a small margin.

 

[classicomano]

From the live ticker at CN on today's stage:

And the jury member on the phone a little later said theres no chance that they will change the outcome of the stage and that they will not argue about it anymore.

So everything will stay the same.

 

[Broth3r]

There's a difference between legal and legitimate. If what I've heard is correct, what they did was illegal, sure. Illegitimate? It's only my personal opinion, but I don't think so.

Unless they attacked because they knew the others were neutralized (which yea, would be pretty bad), they were right because they wanted to race. Cycling is simple sometimes. Dare, and the world yields.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

There you go, they read my post:
@CyclingUptodate: #Giro Teams want Rolland, Hesjedal and Quintana's time corrected by 2 minutes.

Fair enough.... Now if DSses and organizers could act as grown ups that would be a good compromise, as I said just two pages ago.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

why the want to take 55 seconds from Quintana? I mean, why 55?

he had 55 seconds after the descent?

Like halfway during the descent, probably. I think Uran said that they were about a minute back when they realized they had to chase.

 

[cineteq]

So GC would look like this then?

COL 1 URAN , Rigoberto (OPQS) 68:11:44
COL 2 QUINTANA, Nairo (MOVISTAR) + 19
AUS 3 EVANS, Cadel (BMC) + 1:21
FRA 4 ROLLAND, Pierre (EUROPCAR) + 1:26
POL 5 MAJKA, Rafal (TINKOFF-SAXO) + 1:28
ITA 6 ARU, Fabio (AST) + 1:34
ITA 7 POZZOVIVO, Domenico (AG2R) + 1:49
NED 8 KELDERMAN, Wilco (BELKIN) + 2:06
CAN 9 HESJEDAL, Ryder (GARMIN) + 2:16
CRO 10 KISERLOVSKI, Robert (TREK)+ 6:02

 

[Dazed and Confused]

And the jury member on the phone a little later said theres no chance that they will change the outcome of the stage and that they will not argue about it anymore.

So everything will stay the same.

Good decision.

 

[damian13ster]

So GC would look like this then?

COL 1 URAN , Rigoberto (OPQS) 68:11:44
COL 2 QUINTANA, Nairo (MOVISTAR) + 19
AUS 3 EVANS, Cadel (BMC) + 1:21
FRA 4 ROLLAND, Pierre (EUROPCAR) + 1:26
POL 5 MAJKA, Rafal (TINKOFF-SAXO) + 1:28
ITA 6 ARU, Fabio (AST) + 1:34
ITA 7 POZZOVIVO, Domenico (AG2R) + 1:49
NED 8 KELDERMAN, Wilco (BELKIN) + 2:06
CAN 9 HESJEDAL, Ryder (GARMIN) + 2:16
CRO 10 KISERLOVSKI, Robert (TREK)+ 6:02

Rolland and Hesjedal would have 2 minutes added as well I assume

 

[The Hitch]

Still possible to make this into a Sky-thread. Hang in there!

The only people I've seen mentioning sky here are sky fans. The same ones later start moaning that sky are in every thread.

 

[Piz Buin]

2 minutes? Why the **** 2 minutes?

Uran said they were 1 minute down when they realised they had to chase. Pozzo said he went 100% all the time

Also where exactly did they took that time from? You can't just estimate.

 

[damian13ster]

Apparently its what the teams agreed on so I assume there is some basis to that.

I personally think that things should be left as it is if they didnt pass a moto and that they should be disuqalified if they did.

 

[Escarabajo]

There you go, they read my post:
@CyclingUptodate: #Giro Teams want Rolland, Hesjedal and Quintana's time corrected by 2 minutes.

It would never would have ended like that. But at least is something (better than nothing).

If it gives the value of the victory back to Quintana from the people that were not happy with the fiasco I am all for it. No problems.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

2 minutes? Why the **** 2 minutes?

Uran said they were 1 minute down when they realised they had to chase. Pozzo said he went 100% all the time

Also where exactly did they took that time from? You can't just estimate.

Lets spin the wheel and see what the penalty should be:

 

[Inquitus]

He could always give back the 2 minutes at the line, he'll win anyways in all likelyhood and remove the cloud that will always hang over his victory otherwise.

 

[Netserk]

AIGCP's Statement on yesterday's race situation

Following this morning's team managers meeting in Sarnonico, at the start of the 17th stage of the Giro d'Italia, a delegation of the AIGCP met with RCS and the UCI commissaires. On behalf of ALL teams, the AIGCP has specifically demanded a neutralisation of the time differences at the bottom of the descent of the Stelvio of yesterdays stage. The UCI has declined this demand and stated that the results would remain unchanged. Putting procedures above fair-sportsmanship is simply unacceptable and very disappointing. In respect to the fans and cycling as a whole, teams decided to start the stage.

In bike races, teams depend on the information provided by 'Radio Tour', from which the essential information is being forwarded by two-way radio's to the riders. In difficult conditions, this flow of information becomes even more important. Therefore, the information should be consistent, clear and should not leave any doubt. Teams should rely on that all information should have the consent of the UCI chief commissaire. Yesterday, when the circumstances were the most difficult, the quality of the information went below the minimum level. Following the crucial announcement, both the organiser and the commissaires remained absent to correct the situation, where there was still enough time to do so. When asked by the AIGCP, the UCI commissaires have specifically denied to have heard the instructions 'not to attack in the descent' broadcasted on Radio Tour…

In order to have fair cycling, teams need a regulator that applies the rules in a transparent, consistent and fair way. The complete absence of the ability to regulate the race to correct the mistakes, lead to a significant influence on the results in the race yesterday and until the end of the Giro. That should never happen.

The AIGCP is open to discuss with all stakeholders in order to raise the level of regulation during bike races.

 

[BigMac]

Take the time gained on the descemt or DQ them and end this farse once and for all.