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State of Peloton 2023

Page 29 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
These short stages at the Tour might be good for the TV but it's producing ridiculous riding. If nothing else comes out of this Tour, hopefully the need for longer stages is seriously considered. I don't just mean flat stages but really tough mountain stages that are not ridden at 40 km/h. Endurance seems not to be a problem any more with all the latest gizmos and "recovery processes".
 
I think today is a bit of a crossroads moment for the UCI. Performances have been ramping up steadily since 2020, but up until now people have been able to wave their hands and explain things away. But this tour has been another level of ridiculous - 90s climbing times falling left and right, big swings of form back and forth, the whole lot. And then today we get probably the most comically unbelievable TT performance ever. At this point they have to get serious and reign it in if they want to maintain any semblance of integrity, because if they decide to let it go we’re going to be seeing silly season like there’s never been before
 
I think today is a bit of a crossroads moment for the UCI. Performances have been ramping up steadily since 2020, but up until now people have been able to wave their hands and explain things away. But this tour has been another level of ridiculous - 90s climbing times falling left and right, big swings of form back and forth, the whole lot. And then today we get probably the most comically unbelievable TT performance ever. At this point they have to get serious and reign it in if they want to maintain any semblance of integrity, because if they decide to let it go we’re going to be seeing silly season like there’s never been before
The past two Tours have been great, the current one is even setting audience records for French TV for the Tour. It's not dull and sour like the Sky reign.
 
I think today is a bit of a crossroads moment for the UCI. Performances have been ramping up steadily since 2020, but up until now people have been able to wave their hands and explain things away. But this tour has been another level of ridiculous - 90s climbing times falling left and right, big swings of form back and forth, the whole lot. And then today we get probably the most comically unbelievable TT performance ever. At this point they have to get serious and reign it in if they want to maintain any semblance of integrity, because if they decide to let it go we’re going to be seeing silly season like there’s never been before
Hubris knows no limits.
Lance Armstrong tells a story in Jan Ullrich--The Best There Never Was about the time Ferrari himself dialed up Armstrong after a stage in which he dominated to admonish him for making it look so obvious.
 
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I think today is a bit of a crossroads moment for the UCI. Performances have been ramping up steadily since 2020, but up until now people have been able to wave their hands and explain things away. But this tour has been another level of ridiculous - 90s climbing times falling left and right, big swings of form back and forth, the whole lot. And then today we get probably the most comically unbelievable TT performance ever. At this point they have to get serious and reign it in if they want to maintain any semblance of integrity, because if they decide to let it go we’re going to be seeing silly season like there’s never been before
Totally agree but the time for that was already when climb speeds took off after the COVID break and if not then, then at least after PDBF 2020.

As netserk said, the economic interest just has not been there. Maybe it will be, IDK, but have my doubts.
 
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Are people still enjoying this?
I see a lot of people just being amazed, no question asked. As the view number indicate: circus can go on
We don't see teams/riders stopping/complaining about this. We hear some complaints about peleton with 2 speeds, but even that is minimal.

If we look back at the lance days, the only reason they caught him was because he had the audacity to win 7 tours and come back for more.
The Puerto affair did hurt, but not all riders were busted evenly.
The froome days is was the same, and when he got caught it was just ignored from the higher ups.

The only thing that can happen is if the french get fed up and do a search. Even if it doesn't find anything, for Bahrain is helped to drop their speed...


At least for me the enjoyment of the tour is over. All i can do is not watch it on TV so i'm not actively contributing to the viewers. (That said i will probably follow it through other means... just highlights or just the forum remarks, or just the final result... even though i'm completely fed up with what we see this tour (even though i know it was coming, it didn't expect it to be so far over the top)).
 
Totally agree but the time for that was already when climb speeds took off after the COVID break and if not then, then at least after PDBF 2020.

As netserk said, the economic interest just has not been there. Maybe it will be, IDK, but have my doubts.

France has political particularities which mean 'economic interests' aren't always a factor.

When Marie-George Buffet (sports minister at the time) went after Virenque in 1998, economics were of zero concern. It was about making a point & sending a message. The Tour also has politically motivated opponents in this country who perceive it as a 'polluting' circus (indeed many elected politicians don't want the Tour in their region or cities anymore).

So when I see Jumbo toying with the Tour like it's their own personal plaything & they risk nothing... I'm not so sure myself, i.e. there are people out there who're capable of spoiling the party & will do if they smell blood (pun unintended), i.e. a brewing PED scandal in the Tour which = an opportunity to score some political points.
 
France has political particularities which mean 'economic interests' aren't always a factor.

When Marie-George Buffet (sports minister at the time) went after Virenque in 1998, economics were of zero concern. It was about making a point & sending a message. The Tour also has politically motivated opponents in this country who perceive it as a 'polluting' circus (indeed many elected politicians don't want the Tour in their region or cities anymore).

So when I see Jumbo toying with the Tour like it's their own personal plaything & they risk nothing... I'm not so sure myself, i.e. there are people out there who're capable of spoiling the party & will do if they smell blood (pun unintended), i.e. a brewing PED scandal in the Tour which = an opportunity to score some political points.
I hope you are right, but have to make two caveats. Economic interests are always a factor. But they may become trumped by other factors from time to time.

Also, you IMHO grant Jumbo too much kudos here. It is understandable, because their exploits are the most blatant ones this year and the one before it. But you are a smart poster, so surely you can see the structural problem concerning the raging arms race between them and UAE, which is ravaging the sport. Rodriguez is 9min back already.

But say Jumbo gets burned. Good. Then what, UAE reigns free and tones it down a bit? Are we happy then? And the French?

The sport needs a root and branch. Fans too. Fawning at extreme performances is part of the problem.
 
I hope you are right, but have to make two caveats. Economic interests are always a factor. But they may become trumped by other factors from time to time.

Also, you IMHO grant Jumbo too much kudos here. It is understandable, because their exploits are the most blatant ones this year and the one before it. But you are a smart poster, so surely you can see the structural problem concerning the raging arms race between them and UAE, which is ravaging the sport. Rodriguez is 9min back already.

But say Jumbo gets burned. Good. Then what, UAE reigns free and tones it down a bit? Are we happy then? And the French?

The sport needs a root and branch. Fans too. Fawning at extreme performances is part of the problem.
I’ve been wondering about your last paragraph. I agree this is a big part of the problem - fans. We see this attitude in the Forum. This is the “it’s entertaining who cares” factor.

But I say cycling must have some connection with physiological reality and fairness. It should not resemble WWE wrestling on wheels. When two play the game we at least have competition. But not after what we all just witnessed. Barring a crash this is all over red rover.
 
I’ve been wondering about your last paragraph. I agree this is a big part of the problem - fans. We see this attitude in the Forum. This is the “it’s entertaining who cares” factor.

But I say cycling must have some connection with physiological reality and fairness. It should not resemble WWE wrestling on wheels. When two play the game we at least have competition. But not after what we all just witnessed. Barring a crash this is all over red rover.
Yes.

I forgot to add: the fans seem to have a weird hard-on for what I call cycling royalty. The bluest of the blue blooded, the big six, bla bla.
 
What on earth is going on in Denmark.
Serious question - how is the public stance and culture on doping in Denmark?

I feel I can ask that question since Austria has a quite bad reputation as well and to some degree I would argue that this is routed in culture. A little bit of collective "What the eye does not see, the heart does not grieve over. (Was ich nicht weiß, macht mich nicht heiß.)"

So with having Riis and Rasmussen in mind - same in Denmark?
 
I hope you are right, but have to make two caveats. Economic interests are always a factor. But they may become trumped by other factors from time to time.

Also, you IMHO grant Jumbo too much kudos here. It is understandable, because their exploits are the most blatant ones this year and the one before it. But you are a smart poster, so surely you can see the structural problem concerning the raging arms race between them and UAE, which is ravaging the sport. Rodriguez is 9min back already.

But say Jumbo gets burned. Good. Then what, UAE reigns free and tones it down a bit? Are we happy then? And the French?

The sport needs a root and branch. Fans too. Fawning at extreme performances is part of the problem.

I should have quantified Jumbo + UAE better, i.e. a group I add Ineos into as well, despite certain limitations in the arms race lately. For example I still consider Geraint Thomas (& his recent performances in the Giro) up there in the not-believable-stuff category, 5 years after his not-so-believable Tour win. Even though the level he rides at is obviously lower than the top 2 in the TdF.

But there's so much to dissect & I don't intend to single out one team whilst absolving others of equal wrongdoing simply when the result of that wrongdoing is a slower rider. I mean the intent is the same, even when they're losing an arms race. The debate can be framed by LPDBF 2020 & specifically Jumbo's response. What did they do when they witnessed Roglič get clobbered by Pog & UAE? They decided they wanted their own version of Pog. Like going onto amazon.com & buying a new more powerful game console which can run their favorite video game at higher framerates.

That's the mindset we're seeing. They didn't stop & think 'sh*t, where is this sport going?'; they thought 'sh*t, we need our own Pogačar & more importantly whatever they used to make him win!'.

But then there's other stuff going on as well, like the variable form of past glow-in-the-dark mutants (for example I find Quick Step's fall from grace for everyone other than Evenepoel pretty eyebrow raising), whilst we see inconsistent performance jumps & dips within the same teams (like Sepp Kuss is at a much higher level in the Tour than he was in the Giro, without question in my mind, whilst Kelderman & Benoot don't seem as 'switched on' as previously & the same could be said regarding Wout van Aert in this TdF 2023 compared to last year where he did his full Hulk rampage, so not everyone in the same team gets the same equal boost).

All we know is we saw something different with Vingegaard yesterday, i.e. a level above the previous glass ceiling which was totally destroyed. So if nothing is done about this & no politicians or police prefects show an interest in stopping the current status-quo, yesterday's TdF 2023 stage 16 will become tomorrow's normal... & then it'll likely itself get surpassed in a few years.

Think about it as the equivalent of a parallel universe where Festina never happened or the hematocrit limit wasn't introduced in the 1990's, i.e. who knows how far climbing times & average km/h would have skyrocket. I think that's where we're at at right with whatever modern techniques these teams & their doctors employ.
 
What on earth is going on in Denmark. Britain 2.0
I believe Shakespeare wrote something about it more than 400 years ago.
However, both the chicken and the fish were/are in a Dutch team.
The chicken is now old times, but this is the same team who more recently fired Lulu Sanchez for his association with doctors out of the team or Lobato for taking sleeping pills without prescription from the team doctor.
 
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https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ju...xtra-anti-doping-tests-at-the-tour-de-france/
Extra blood tests before stage 17 for Jumbo & UAE, but this is, in my opinion, not much more then a show for the press, "see, we do testing"!

Team manager Richard Plugge told WielerFlits that he welcomed the tests, noting that Vingegaard, who leads Pogačar by 1:48 while lying almost nine minutes clear of any other rider, has been tested four times in the last two days.

"I applaud this," he said. "In fact, I also worked hard for it. In this way, we're taking another step in the fight against doping. Jonas Vingegaard has had no fewer than four blood tests in the last 48 hours. We are happy to participate in this."

They're happy because they know they won't get caught.
 
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They're happy because they know they won't get caught.
If someone can be that better than everyone else then this man defies human physiology. It’s a pity bike racing doesn’t have measurables the same way other sports do. This is the equivalent of a 1:58 marathon or 9.2 second 100m dash, but w/kg and VAM don’t really hit the same way with the average viewer.