Steakgate latest: Contador positive for Clenbuterol in four different tests

[Oldman]

By activists I have been informed to beware of Burger King meat as it is a product of patureland/ranches created by illeagal amazon deforestation. The things that are added to meat/poultry farmed fish, I hope that Contador will make awareness of these things(food additives Hormones, steroids, unethical animal treatment, environmental degradation etc.)

To me that is far more important for the planet than Contadors alleged guilt as a PED user.

You could book a speaking tour for Bertie. He may need a part time job.

 

[bike_framed]

I thought this beef was sent in by a friend because of it's extra special Spanish origin and because Contador/Spaniard are picky, wasn't it?

I really like the part where they say the meat may have been imported via France! We need a flow chart to keep up with all this as it will only get more complex as more "facts" come to light.

 

[flicker]

You could book a speaking tour for Bertie. He may need a part time job.

First the book Positively False II and than Berts International Lecture tour managed and translated by Fran c., Saiz, and Botero, the Troika.

 

[sniper]

Irony strikes.

While some days ago, after WADA's report, Contador's team released a statement stressing it was still "not possible to determine that the meat was not contaminated", now the roles have been turned around: Spanish farmers give Contador burden of the proof to determine that the meat wás contaminated:

http://es.eurosport.yahoo.com/ciclismo/

http://de.eurosport.yahoo.com/22112010/73/affaere-contador-rinderzuechter-klagen.html

 

[lean mean &green]

Yes+++. And now an opportunist Spanish beef trade association "spokesman" is seizing the opportunity to "support" Contador's claims and bash imported South American beef at the same time. I thought this beef was sent in by a friend because of it's extra special Spanish origin and because Contador/Spaniard are picky, wasn't it? Hell, they can get South American beef at the local McDonald's.

the conflict of interest for all parties involved is blatantly obvious to me (and you by the sounds of it). i think that in this day and age the PR moves and damage control following a scandal are only directed at the most casual of fans who won't really scrutinize them. i don't even think they consider the cynical clinic dwellers who are beyond this manipulation. there's really no fooling you so why bother. ie reversing the damage is too lofty an expectation but limiting it is realistic goal. it's hilarious that they actually shamed the spanish beef industry when one of the best unconscious bias' to play off of is national pride, OOPS! better play it off onto meat from foreign shores! at least it didn't take to long to find a shill.

the best route for someone like AC to take is to confess, not play it out in public, not drag out an unending appeal which exhausts anti-doping budgets, not throw others under the bus and make a quiet return at the end of a suspension however long that is. the convoluted lies are actually more damaging to the perception of character than the doping itself. i've always been indifferent toward AC and news of his positive changed that opinion very little for me. i quite safely assumed he was using PEDs anyway. the statements and actions since this news broke have negatively affected my opinion tho. some of he and his handlers actions are now getting disgusting to watch.

 

[flicker]

Typical Armstrong Hater logic. Contador has probably been on program since age 15. If you think he or any other cheat will come clean, to fulfill the dreams of you ,Kathy and Greg you are mistaken. It is nice to believe in the tooth fairy,the easter bunny and the bio-passport. but life ain't fair.In pro sports and the olympics fairness is not an option.

 

[webvan]

Exactly and after the Landis fiasco you'd think this would now be the obvious way to go. I suspect his lawyers managed to convince him he could get off on a technicality...

As for the spanish farmers the way I read it is that they had filed an official complaint with the government so this could be sorted...like the bankrupt Spanish government doesn't have anything better to do, like dealing with the 20% unemployment rate. I guess Bertie can't care less...

 

[Oldman]

Exactly and after the Landis fiasco you'd think this would now be the obvious way to go. I suspect his lawyers managed to convince him he could get off on a technicality...

As for the spanish farmers the way I read it is that they had filed an official complaint with the government so this could be sorted...like the bankrupt Spanish government doesn't have anything better to do, like dealing with the 20% unemployment rate. I guess Bertie can't care less...[/QUOTE]

Bertie cares greatly about one cut of meat...his own rump roast.

 

[Kender]

if AC's claims are proven false he should be banned for life for wasting everyones time

same goes for any doper that lies and gets proved to be lying (valvarde for example)

 

[DAOTEC]

'NO' Beef it's a KISS

(AP) – 3 hours ago MADRID — Alberto Contador's lawyers are using tennis player Richard Gasquet's successful appeal against cocaine use as part of their own defense for a failed Tour de France doping test.

French player Gasquet avoided a lengthy ban last year after proving he inadvertently ingested cocaine after kissing a woman at a nightclub.

Contador's lawyer Andy Ramos told The Associated Press on Tuesday ...

http://Associated Press.php

 

[BotanyBay]

'NO' Beef it's a KISS

(AP) – 3 hours ago MADRID — Alberto Contador's lawyers are using tennis player Richard Gasquet's successful appeal against cocaine use as part of their own defense for a failed Tour de France doping test.

French player Gasquet avoided a lengthy ban last year after proving he inadvertently ingested cocaine after kissing a woman at a nightclub.

Contador's lawyer Andy Ramos told The Associated Press on Tuesday ...

http://Associated Press.php

Alberto Contador lives in Spain (or in other words "Bizzarro France")

 

[Benotti69]

'NO' Beef it's a KISS

(AP) – 3 hours ago MADRID — Alberto Contador's lawyers are using tennis player Richard Gasquet's successful appeal against cocaine use as part of their own defense for a failed Tour de France doping test.

French player Gasquet avoided a lengthy ban last year after proving he inadvertently ingested cocaine after kissing a woman at a nightclub.

Contador's lawyer Andy Ramos told The Associated Press on Tuesday ...

http://Associated Press.php

so Contador was kissing meat with clenbuterol and cocaine, i dont understand?????

 

[thehog]

so Contador was kissing meat with clenbuterol and cocaine, i dont understand?????

Neither. Lance kissed a lot of hookers and took a lot of coke and never tested positive for clen.

 

[sniper]

so Contador was kissing meat with clenbuterol and cocaine, i dont understand?????

I think he's been shagging a cow on the second rest day. His defense will be that he got shagged inadvertently.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Neither. Lance kissed a lot of hookers and took a lot of coke and never tested positive for clen.

He wasn't kissing cows. I heard he had a hard time finding one that looked like his mom...

 

[bike_framed]

Neither. Lance kissed a lot of hookers and took a lot of coke and never tested positive for clen.

But he may be positive for something he got from a hooker.

 

[L29205]

'NO' Beef it's a KISS

(AP) – 3 hours ago MADRID — Alberto Contador's lawyers are using tennis player Richard Gasquet's successful appeal against cocaine use as part of their own defense for a failed Tour de France doping test.

French player Gasquet avoided a lengthy ban last year after proving he inadvertently ingested cocaine after kissing a woman at a nightclub.

More details on the Gasquet case:

After deciding to withdraw from the tournament, Gasquet went to a nightclub with friends to see a French DJ perform at a dance music festival in Miami, which the tribunal noted was "notoriously associated with use of illegal recreational drugs including cocaine".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/tennis/8152674.stm

My opinion is this defense would be better for the German Ping Ponger then for AC, being that China is a country that has been notoriously associated with Clen in their food supply.

 

[python]

the cas ruling on richard gasguet is verrry interesting.


remarkably, the cocaine-loaded woman gasquet had kissed, denied using cocaine that night. yet the tribunal despite admitting that there is no hard evidence of her using cocaine during the ‘kissing night,’ completely sided with the players theory.

all on the basis of what I pointed to innumerable times - hair follicle testing - of both kissers.

because both mentioned reference cases (ocharov’s and gasquet’s) involved hair testing, we can conclude with very high confidence that contador’s defence will also be based on his (and possibly his teammates) hair testing.

i also now feel strongly the defence team,will bring up contador’s inconclusive blood passport as a supporting card. They will try to show that by lacking sufficient confidence in blood transfusion as read from his biopass values, the contamination (by elimination provided there was no microdose doping) was the only route that satisfies the balance of probabilities legal standard

 

[Merckx index]

because both mentioned reference cases (ocharov’s and gasquet’s) involved hair testing, we can conclude with very high confidence that contador’s defence will also be based on his (and possibly his teammates) hair testing.

i also now feel strongly the defence team,will bring up contador’s inconclusive blood passport as a supporting card. They will try to show that by lacking sufficient confidence in blood transfusion as read from his biopass values, the contamination (by elimination provided there was no microdose doping) was the only route that satisfies the balance of probabilities legal standard

I don't see how hair testing can distinguish contaminated meat from transfusion. Since in either case we are talking about an acute ingestion of the drug, I would expect the hair to have a very low level, probably indetectable. In any case, whatever the result, it would not point to one scenario as opposed to another.

Hair testing is mostly used to document chronic use, which clearly is not the issue with Bert. If the CB got in his system through doping, it was by blood transfusion, not through a sustained period of taking CB itself. Of course, if he did transfuse, he must have been doping with CB during the time in which the blood was withdrawn, but that would presumably be too far back in time to document with hair testing (which usually has a window of a few months). At least with head hair. They might have better luck with hair from other parts of the body, which grows much more slowly. Take off your pants, Bert.

So the passport data would seem to be more important here. But of course negative or non-positive passport data only suggest no transfusion around the time of the test. They don't address the possibility of transfusion during a period when he wasn’t being tested. And we all know that even passports done soon after transfusion can be beaten.

All this is not to say that this isn’t indeed the approach Bert’s lawyer will take, just that it doesn’t look very promising to me.

 

[python]

I don't see how hair testing can distinguish contaminated meat from transfusion.

may be you don't see it b/c i never said what you you don't see ?

 

[Merckx index]

may be you don't see it b/c i never said what you you don't see ?

When you report what (you think) a lawyer’s approach will be, without offering any critique of that approach, you leave yourself open to the presumption that you think that approach is a valid one. Not to mention leave it open for someone else to critique that approach. Particularly when that critique never implies that you agree with the lawyer, but on the contrary suggests that maybe you don't:

All this is not to say that this isn’t indeed the approach Bert’s lawyer will take, just that it doesn’t look very promising to me.

In plainer English, I never said that you said what I don't see. On the contrary, I suggested that maybe you also didn't see.

 

[Publicus]

When you report what (you think) a lawyer’s approach will be, without offering any critique of that approach, you leave yourself open to the presumption that you think that approach is a valid one. Not to mention leave it open for someone else to critique that approach. Particularly when that critique never implies that you agree with the lawyer, but on the contrary suggests that maybe you don't:



In plainer English, I never said that you said what I don't see. On the contrary, I suggested that maybe you also didn't see.

Hair testing would show if the clenbuterol was used for a significant period of time. If, as AC suggests it was from contaminated meat, then one would not expect to find significant amounts in his hair follicles. At least that's how I understand the hair follicle test.

 

[sniper]

Hair testing would show if the clenbuterol was used for a significant period of time. If, as AC suggests it was from contaminated meat, then one would not expect to find significant amounts in his hair follicles. At least that's how I understand the hair follicle test.

But can the hairtesting show whether AC used CLEN for a longer period before the Tour, e.g. after the Dauphiné? Cuz the bloodtransfusion hypothesis sort of implies he was indeed on a CLEN-diet for more than one day, in a period prior to the Tour, n'est pas?

 

[Merckx index]

Hair testing would show if the clenbuterol was used for a significant period of time. If, as AC suggests it was from contaminated meat, then one would not expect to find significant amounts in his hair follicles. At least that's how I understand the hair follicle test.

Re-read my original post. It has been clear for a long time that the CB came from either contaminated meat or a transfusion. It was not a result of CB doping during the Tour, because it was not present in detectable amounts in Bert's urine except for a two day window. Either of these scenarios, food contamination or transfusion, involve acute rather than chronic ingestion of CB, and would result in the same general findings in a hair test. Probably negative.

So the hair test is scientifically useless here. It might be legally useful, though, because merely by calling for it, Bert's lawyer is setting up a straw man--chronic doping with CB over a period of time--that can be effectively demolished. The two day window has already demolished that argument, but he might want to resurrect it to divert attention from the transfusion scenario.But that will undoubtedly come up, and when it does, the lawyer might, as Python suggested, use passport results to argue that Bert has not been transfusing. As I noted earlier, that argument is also scientifically dubious, but again, might score points in a legal battle.

 

[sniper]

Re-read my original post. It has been clear for a long time that the CB came from either contaminated meat or a transfusion. It was not a result of CB doping during the Tour, because it was not present in detectable amounts in Bert's urine except for a two day window. Either of these scenarios, food contamination or transfusion, involve acute rather than chronic ingestion of CB, and would result in the same general findings in a hair test. Probably negative.

So the hair test is scientifically useless here. It might be legally useful, though, because merely by calling for it, Bert's lawyer is setting up a straw man--chronic doping with CB over a period of time--that can be effectively demolished. The two day window has already demolished that argument, but he might want to resurrect it to divert attention from the transfusion scenario.But that will undoubtedly come up, and when it does, the lawyer might, as Python suggested, use passport results to argue that Bert has not been transfusing. As I noted earlier, that argument is also scientifically dubious, but again, might score points in a legal battle.

Depends on how far back in time the hairtest can look. See my previous post: the bloodtransfusion hypothesis suggests AC did do a CLEN-diet at some point during the season prior to the Tour, right? So if the hairtest covers, say, an entire year, and no suspitious values pop up, it would be further evidence against a bloodtransfusion.