Hosszu seems like a screaming case of getting on the right meds to boost her to world class status. The whole Hungary connection and her 'coach' add up to deep skepticism.
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Re: Re:
http://www.si.com/vault/1977/10/31/626410/pricking-up-their-ears
That's pretty unambiguous innit.
P.s. For more info on Mader see for instance http://m.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-41147129.html
Short on time now, but I'll drop this here:
http://www.si.com/vault/1977/10/31/626410/pricking-up-their-ears
That's pretty unambiguous innit.
P.s. For more info on Mader see for instance http://m.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-41147129.html
Hosszú is an interesting case.
Years ago, she was just one of the several talents of Hungary (I live there). They were all considered fairly succesful (considering that Hungary is a small country, with a far less professional sport environment than the USA, for example), and she was just one of them, not extremely talented or something.
What happened?
She went to university at the USA (from 2008). She studied there, she lived there, she trained there. She met her trainer there (who is her husband now, too), who trains her since the autumn of 2012. Later, they returned to Hungary, she became a superstar here, and she is much better now compared to those other talents I mentioned. She trained with a much more professional environment, which probably means a better doping program too.
The problem is, that with her return, our national swimming association became a mess, because she tried to make them realise how amateurish the system is. Of course, it did not change anything in the association, or for the other swimmers, they are still doing what they have been doing. She has a special status - she is part of the hungarian swimming team, but she is not really part of the Hungarian training system. She has a celebrity status here most swimmer doesn't have (even guys like Cseh, who has been winning for a longer time).
Cervelo77 - What are you implying with the Hungarian connection? I'm honestly curious.
Years ago, she was just one of the several talents of Hungary (I live there). They were all considered fairly succesful (considering that Hungary is a small country, with a far less professional sport environment than the USA, for example), and she was just one of them, not extremely talented or something.
What happened?
She went to university at the USA (from 2008). She studied there, she lived there, she trained there. She met her trainer there (who is her husband now, too), who trains her since the autumn of 2012. Later, they returned to Hungary, she became a superstar here, and she is much better now compared to those other talents I mentioned. She trained with a much more professional environment, which probably means a better doping program too.
The problem is, that with her return, our national swimming association became a mess, because she tried to make them realise how amateurish the system is. Of course, it did not change anything in the association, or for the other swimmers, they are still doing what they have been doing. She has a special status - she is part of the hungarian swimming team, but she is not really part of the Hungarian training system. She has a celebrity status here most swimmer doesn't have (even guys like Cseh, who has been winning for a longer time).
Cervelo77 - What are you implying with the Hungarian connection? I'm honestly curious.
Bingo. I said in another thread the Chinese female swimmers were likely involved in genetic doping.The bust was for something more basic though...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/12/chinese-swimmer-chen-xinyi-fails-doping-test-at-olympics/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/12/chinese-swimmer-chen-xinyi-fails-doping-test-at-olympics/
so how does a little unknown Canadian steal the gold from the heavily favourited Aussies in the women's 100 metre freestyle. I did not think Penny Oleksiak would stand a chance as I'm sure she's racing clean. Maybe the Aussies feared a test and decided not to take anything ? Any thoughts ?
Re:
Ha. She's 185cm tall (6'1). For a kid (yes, I think we can call someone that's 16 a kid), that just turned 16 and is that tall and looks like she's older than her actual age (though not like Miruts Yifter age discrepancy), she's quite big and looks more physically mature than the women she was racing against.
I google her (had really no idea who she was prior to the Olympics), and her brother plays for the Dallas Stars in the NHL. The guy is huge. 201cm (6'7), so perhaps the height runs in the family and their parents were also athletes. It doesn't explain everything about her high level here in Rio.
masking_agent said:
Ha. She's 185cm tall (6'1). For a kid (yes, I think we can call someone that's 16 a kid), that just turned 16 and is that tall and looks like she's older than her actual age (though not like Miruts Yifter age discrepancy), she's quite big and looks more physically mature than the women she was racing against.
I google her (had really no idea who she was prior to the Olympics), and her brother plays for the Dallas Stars in the NHL. The guy is huge. 201cm (6'7), so perhaps the height runs in the family and their parents were also athletes. It doesn't explain everything about her high level here in Rio.
100m freestyle seems more unpredictable than the other swimming events. Youth triumphed over experience with all 3 gold medals. Explosivity?
The Campbells were 1 and 2 at the halfway point. Cate especially went out way too quickly. They swam really poor races tactically. Cate set the OR in the heats and the semis, before swimming a half second slower in the final. Dope doesn't wear off that quickly.
Cate was on world record pace.
Oleksiak is a big talent. It's not really a surprise. Earl McCarthy(past Irish Olympian) spoke to her coach last year and she was tipped for a medal.
Oleksiak is a big talent. It's not really a surprise. Earl McCarthy(past Irish Olympian) spoke to her coach last year and she was tipped for a medal.
Short sprint events are always going to be more subject to chance. If your dive or turn is a little off, it can make a big difference. So can where you are in your stroke cycle as you approach the wall. The 100m FS, and even more the 50m, is a crapshoot. When was the last time a man repeated as champion in the 100 FS? I think Popov in 92/96. Also did the double in the 50, which is extraordinary.
This, by the way, leads to me a non-doping explanation of Phelps (not saying he isn't doping, but looking for other explanations). He may have always been a good sprinter naturally, but didn't emphasize it, because middle distance events are safer, more predictable. Now, as he ages, and can't handle all the extra distance involved in training and racing at those distances, he's working on his sprinting more. Also, since he's dropped the 400 IM, he can emphasize FS a little more than in the past. Thus his time in the 4 x 100 FS relay was close to his best.
But his 200 IM was certainly suspicious, too. For the most part, his times now are well off what he did in his prime, but his time in the 200 IM final was very close to his personal best. Lochte swam just 0.2 second or so slower than he did in the semis, and more than three seconds off his WR, as you would expect for a guy 32 years old. But Phelps knocked two whole seconds off his semi time. And most of that damage was in the final 50 FS.
This, by the way, leads to me a non-doping explanation of Phelps (not saying he isn't doping, but looking for other explanations). He may have always been a good sprinter naturally, but didn't emphasize it, because middle distance events are safer, more predictable. Now, as he ages, and can't handle all the extra distance involved in training and racing at those distances, he's working on his sprinting more. Also, since he's dropped the 400 IM, he can emphasize FS a little more than in the past. Thus his time in the 4 x 100 FS relay was close to his best.
But his 200 IM was certainly suspicious, too. For the most part, his times now are well off what he did in his prime, but his time in the 200 IM final was very close to his personal best. Lochte swam just 0.2 second or so slower than he did in the semis, and more than three seconds off his WR, as you would expect for a guy 32 years old. But Phelps knocked two whole seconds off his semi time. And most of that damage was in the final 50 FS.
Posted this in the Olympics thread but worthwhile here too.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/olympics-2016/convicted-drug-cheats-escaped-out-of-competition-testing-before-rio/news-story/1a8d97cd2cd846d8d9c973391e4a71ad
http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/olympics-2016/convicted-drug-cheats-escaped-out-of-competition-testing-before-rio/news-story/1a8d97cd2cd846d8d9c973391e4a71ad
https://swimswam.com/problem-rio-pool/
I know jokes can be made about a tailwind/following current, but the Rio pool may actually have a circulation going on.
I know jokes can be made about a tailwind/following current, but the Rio pool may actually have a circulation going on.
Re: Re:
this is hilarious.
but note the language Mack Horton used, he said, I am not against Sun Yang per se, only athletes who have "tested positive". The mealy mouthed language may, or may not be telling. My conspiratorial perspective, immediately read something into his language. No one gets to an Olympic final in either swimming or T&F without using PEDs imo.
StryderHells said:thehog said:Benotti69 said:
Aussie swimmers pretending to be clean? Now, that is the biggest laugh in the history of sport
The media down here is all over it talking about how our great clean Aussie swimmers having to compete against these doped up Chinese cheats, not even one voice speaking about the possibility that Aussie swimmers could be doping, they just wouldn't do that as we don't have a doping culture and show just what can be achieved with good old hard work
this is hilarious.
but note the language Mack Horton used, he said, I am not against Sun Yang per se, only athletes who have "tested positive". The mealy mouthed language may, or may not be telling. My conspiratorial perspective, immediately read something into his language. No one gets to an Olympic final in either swimming or T&F without using PEDs imo.
Re:
gimme a T
T
gimme some stage 16 T
testo
gimmme some chimera
no
thats Tyler and his dead twin you idjit
gimme an O
O
gimme some more T
you have had enough T, you are already positive in the carbon isotope test you idjit
gimme en E
ecstasy? think you are high enuff now brah
gimme an S
S for shurly [sic]... #alliterationz
#acromegaly evidentiary submission number one michael phelps, exogenous acromegaly, hormone releasing peptide exogenous acromegaly evidence submission
thrawn said:
gimme a T
T
gimme some stage 16 T
testo
gimmme some chimera
no
thats Tyler and his dead twin you idjit
gimme an O
O
gimme some more T
you have had enough T, you are already positive in the carbon isotope test you idjit
gimme en E
ecstasy? think you are high enuff now brah
gimme an S
S for shurly [sic]... #alliterationz
#acromegaly evidentiary submission number one michael phelps, exogenous acromegaly, hormone releasing peptide exogenous acromegaly evidence submission
Merckx index said:
remember the South African Rik Neethling, or Neetling, he came down from 1500m to 100m and mebbe even 50. He added a fair bit of muscle.
They are all on it. Even the Canuck. just like Geneviève Jeanson and Andre Aubut...
I thought the Australian females(especially the sisters_ were acting very strange, and their eyes/pupils looked dilated. NB. devils advocate. they do have the weight of a nation on their substantial shoulders
now, there could be reasons why they were naturally dilated + energy effort exertion.
but i dont have to tell anyone about my conspiracy and potential confirmation bias, i did attempt at getting a control sample by scopiing out other irises on google image search....
its like the novak djokovic tennis thread here, their eyes were pretty cray cray stutter alliterationz
In 1976 West and East Germany experimented with injecting...AIR...into their swimmers in preparation for the Montreal Games in the hope they would float better and develop more speed.
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1314&dat=19770205&id=uztOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=te0DAAAAIBAJ&pg=5043,1451450&hl=en
Choose your emoticon.
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1314&dat=19770205&id=uztOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=te0DAAAAIBAJ&pg=5043,1451450&hl=en
Choose your emoticon.
Re:
Not surprising. I've posted several links on more than one occasion outlining West German doping. Perhaps they weren't as 'sophisticated' as the East, they did their fair share of doping, and not just on an individual basis. The only reason the East Germans get more flack (not saying that they shouldn't get flack) is because they were a Soviet satellite and Communists.
I don't think a unified Germany has had as much success at the Olympics as one would imagine. I don't believe it has to do with less, or less flagrant doping, does it?
sniper said:
Not surprising. I've posted several links on more than one occasion outlining West German doping. Perhaps they weren't as 'sophisticated' as the East, they did their fair share of doping, and not just on an individual basis. The only reason the East Germans get more flack (not saying that they shouldn't get flack) is because they were a Soviet satellite and Communists.
I don't think a unified Germany has had as much success at the Olympics as one would imagine. I don't believe it has to do with less, or less flagrant doping, does it?
Re: Re:
I read an estimate of ca. 5000 of these 'refugee' docs somewhere.
Only very few of these docs can be traced back today (Salzwedel, and this GB t&f coach, spring to mind)
What happened to the others?
When the wall came down, literally thousands of East German sports doctors allegedly left the country to seek jobs elsewhere.BullsFan22 said:
I read an estimate of ca. 5000 of these 'refugee' docs somewhere.
Only very few of these docs can be traced back today (Salzwedel, and this GB t&f coach, spring to mind)
What happened to the others?
Re: Re:
This is the kind of thing proper investigative journalists (stop laughing at the back there) ought to have looked into over the last 20 years. Basically the East German sports doctors are the modern equivalent of the rocket scientists who left Germany after the war and worked on the US & Soviet space programs. Except they were doing something good.
sniper said:
This is the kind of thing proper investigative journalists (stop laughing at the back there) ought to have looked into over the last 20 years. Basically the East German sports doctors are the modern equivalent of the rocket scientists who left Germany after the war and worked on the US & Soviet space programs. Except they were doing something good.
Re: Re:
Before that he had already been working in Austria for years, mostly for the Austrian skiing federation (he also worked with Hermann Maier).
Bernd Pansold, the main doping doctor of the SC Dynamo Berlin that was convicted for doping underaged Athletes is now working with Red Bull and their athletes since 2003.sniper said:
Before that he had already been working in Austria for years, mostly for the Austrian skiing federation (he also worked with Hermann Maier).
I have been following the worlds all week. Among all the rubbish and bad news today, it's good to see someone like this win two golds so far and still going for more.
http://www.swimvortex.com/lilly-king-celebrates-the-light-dark-of-mclaren-reports-with-finger-wagging-104/
http://www.swimvortex.com/lilly-king-celebrates-the-light-dark-of-mclaren-reports-with-finger-wagging-104/
gooner said:
The chances of Lilly King being clean are slim to none. Once you got to a certain level of pro sport, the inevitability of doping is quite great.
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