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Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

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Fos

Fos

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Cookster15 said:
Evidence doesn't suggest that:

Pogacar lost 15 secs to Roglic in 2020 TdF MTF on Loze.
Blew on Granon in 2022 TdF (2,400metres).
Blew completely on Loze in 2023 TdF - the day after a huge effort in the TT.

I am sure you can see why many wondered about Pog at altitude before yesterday. In 23 TdF he rode a strong TT by his standards, it was just that Vingegard was on another planet and yet again we forget the wrist injury must have reduced the volume of training he could do which always hurts recovery after big efforts like that TT. And I am not sure Pog is so mentally fragile he would let that get to him on Loze and throw in the towel?
Click to expand...
Pogacar lost 15 secs to Roglic in 2020 TdF MTF on Loze.
Firsts Tour, let him take a breath. Jonas has shown weakness in some altitude climbing too, Portet?.

Blew on Granon in 2022 TdF (2,400metres).
After pacing all Jumbo climbing Galibier and not eating in the descend.

Blew completely on Loze in 2023 TdF - the day after a huge effort in the TT.
The lack of preparation (everybody know the story) shows in the hardest stages.

You will agree that it does not matter if you adapt more or less to the altitude, any defect in shape will be seen sooner here than in other less difficult stages. Marie Blanque adapts perfectly to him and also bit the dust (example).

In addition, he has had great performances on the rest of the great peaks.
 
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Peyroteo94

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Cookster15 said:
Evidence doesn't suggest that:

Pogacar lost 15 secs to Roglic in 2020 TdF MTF on Loze.
Blew on Granon in 2022 TdF (2,400metres).
Blew completely on Loze in 2023 TdF - the day after a huge efort in the TT.

I am sure you can see why many wondered about Pog at altitude before yesterday. In 23 TdF he rode a strong TT by his standards, it was just that Vingegard was on another planet and yet again we forget the wrist injury must have reduced the volume of training he could do which always hurts recovery after big efforts like that TT. And I am not sure Pog is so mentally fragile he would let that get to him on Loze and throw in the towel?
Click to expand...
Now, can you put his good performances at altitude? Losing 15 seconds is nothing so I will exclude that so you have 2 bad performances.
Now look:
2019 Vuelta, stage 9 - Cortals d'Encamp (2086m)
He lost more time in stages close to sea level.

2021 Tour, stage 9 - Tignes (2119m).
2021 Tour, stage 17 - Col du Portet (2209m).
I could put Luz Ardiden because they did the Tourmalet but I won't count this.

2023 Tour, stage 6 - He won the stage after following Vingegaard easily in the Tourmalet, the day before he was completely cooked by Vingegaard.

2024 Catalunya, stage 2 - He destroyed the field in Valter 2000

2024 Giro, stage 15 - it is recent, you know what happened.

There are stages where he lost big time to Vingegaard, below 2000m. For example Hautacum or Marie Blanque.
His suboptimal preparation and facing Vingegaard (an extraordinary alien) are way more obvious reasons to Pogacar's failures than altitude.
 
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Cookster15

Cookster15

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Fos said:
Pogacar lost 15 secs to Roglic in 2020 TdF MTF on Loze.
Firsts Tour, let him take a breath. Jonas has shown weakness in some altitude climbing too, Portet?.

Blew on Granon in 2022 TdF (2,400metres).
After pacing all Jumbo climbing Galibier and not eating in the descend.

Blew completely on Loze in 2023 TdF - the day after a huge effort in the TT.
The lack of preparation (everybody know the story) shows in the hardest stages.

You will agree that it does not matter if you adapt more or less to the altitude, any defect in shape will be seen sooner here than in other less difficult stages. Marie Blanque adapts perfectly to him and also bit the dust (example).

In addition, he has had great performances on the rest of the great peaks.
Click to expand...
I agree with you - especially the bolded. I listed those to show why some had doubts about him at altitude - including myself. Yesterday he pretty much answered those doubts. The counter points both you and Peyroteo94 are valid. I hope Vingegaard can fully recover from his injuries so we can have a fair fight. Vingo is an aerobic monster but he has also benefited by Pog's foolish riding and misfortune.
 
Froome

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Cookster15 said:
I agree with you - especially the bolded. I listed those to show why some had doubts about him at altitude - including myself. Yesterday he pretty much answered those doubts. The counter points both you and Peyroteo94 are valid. I hope Vingegaard can fully recover from his injuries so we can have a fair fight. Vingo is an aerobic monster but he has also benefited by Pog's foolish riding and misfortune.
Click to expand...
Depends also on the stepness of the climb in altitude. He looked very well on Galibier 2022, Tourmalet, Foscagno because they are not climbs very steep.

Granon, La loze( 2020 also), mottolino, he suffered way more.
 
Fos

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Froome said:
Depends also on the stepness of the climb in altitude. He looked very well on Galibier 2022, Tourmalet, Foscagno because they are not climbs very steep.

Granon, La loze( 2020 also), mottolino, he suffered way more.
Click to expand...
Granon and Loze just came at the end of the stages that we have mentioned in which Tadej was affected from before. When he crossed the finish line in Mottolino, his face seemed fresh enough to climb one last climb.

By the way, Tourmalet steepness are quiet similar to Granon (a few tenths below). And Pogi cracked before the steepest parts of Loze, in 7-8 % more or less.
 
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Extinction

Extinction

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Lequack said:
Chris Horner trying to stir the pot too

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-J5D3p9MVM
Click to expand...
Many things to dispute here. Let's say Gherant et all rode harder during the chase, Pog still gains 2+ min, which is still crushing. Then you have to bear in mind the stage was quite long with more vertical meters than anything he's done before in a single race. Thus sailing through on cruise control to the finish, because that's what it looked like, was nothing short of sensational. Maybe he wouldn't have dropped Vingegaard, but he's another mutant. Bar him it's hard to argue, as Horner does, anyone else would have ridden with him to the line from 15 km out.

PS: Then you have Bruyneel on the latest The Move saying exactly the opposite of Horner, namely that he thinks it was one of the best performances from Pogacar we have seen.
 
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SHAD0W93

SHAD0W93

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But another great win by him and I think the last to win 5 stages since Cavendish in 2013. Could definitely add more of other teams work, which is what Majka stated happened today. They weren’t planning on going for it until the other teams started pacing and Pog originally wanted Majka to go for it. A firm hold on his third mountains jersey and might beat Basso’s 2006 domination. The Tour should be exciting.
 
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