Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

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hayneplane

Sep 4, 2017
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Froome said:
Did you really watched the race?

In addition to at least one stupid attack, he wasted a lot of energy due to some stupid statical mistakes and back luck.

He had to recover and close the gap to WVA and Pogacar after his chainring had some problems.

He also had to spend a lot of energy 55 km from the finish line because he had to surpass almost all of the peloton because he was in bad position aftet the attack of pogacar.

It was to much energy wasted before the final climb.
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9th in line at the time Pogacars final teammate pulled over at the base of the Kwaremont does in no way equate to ‘had to surpass almost all of the peloton’
 
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Gigs_98

Gigs_98

Feb 18, 2015
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Meanwhile here I am still thinking Pogacar played that finale perfectly. That sprint was Van der Poels to lose so you put him in a situation where he gets scared of the approaching riders and opens up his sprint too early. Didn't work out but the idea was correct. It's funny that everyone always wants those top tier riders to ride for the win and not 2nd place, yet when they do and they lose the 2nd place people call them stupid.
 
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AmRacer

Sep 1, 2023
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Gigs_98 said:
Meanwhile here I am still thinking Pogacar played that finale perfectly. That sprint was Van der Poels to lose so you put him in a situation where he gets scared of the approaching riders and opens up his sprint too early. Didn't work out but the idea was correct. It's funny that everyone always wants those top tier riders to ride for the win and not 2nd place, yet when they do and they lose the 2nd place people call them stupid.
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Mathieu timed the approaching riders speed perfectly. He was in total control.
 
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Netserk

Netserk

Apr 30, 2011
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Gigs_98 said:
Meanwhile here I am still thinking Pogacar played that finale perfectly. That sprint was Van der Poels to lose so you put him in a situation where he gets scared of the approaching riders and opens up his sprint too early. Didn't work out but the idea was correct. It's funny that everyone always wants those top tier riders to ride for the win and not 2nd place, yet when they do and they lose the 2nd place people call them stupid.
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He rode the last 250 m stupidly. By then, he had indeed stayed behind and got Van der Poel to start a somewhat long sprint. Initially he is on the wheel of Van der Poel and a little to his left, with space to start his sprint. Then he moves to the other side behind Van der Poel and end up more on the wheel of Madouas than Van der Poel, while he gets passed by Van Baarle. That was a massive mistake and all his own fault.
 
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Gigs_98

Gigs_98

Feb 18, 2015
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Netserk said:
He rode the last 250 m stupidly. By then, he had indeed stayed behind and got Van der Poel to start a somewhat long sprint. Initially he is on the wheel of Van der Poel and a little to his left, with space to start his sprint. Then he moves to the other side behind Van der Poel and end up more on the wheel of Madouas than Van der Poel, while he gets passed by Van Baarle. That was a massive mistake and all his own fault.
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Fair enough, the sprint was not well executed but then there is also no way he could have ridden those final 250m and come away with the victory. Just didn't have the legs. But aside from that I think the discord about this finish has always been about how Pogacar messed up by letting the others come back, not about the sprint itself. And I think using the second group as leverage against VdP was literally the only path to victory he had left.
 
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Red Rick

Red Rick

Feb 20, 2012
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Gigs_98 said:
Fair enough, the sprint was not well executed but then there is also no way he could have ridden those final 250m and come away with the victory. Just didn't have the legs. But aside from that I think the discord about this finish has always been about how Pogacar messed up by letting the others come back, not about the sprint itself. And I think using the second group as leverage against VdP was literally the only path to victory he had left.
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I don't think you add much tactical options by letting the chase come back if you time it so that they're back right when the sprint starts.

It's all hindsight obviously, but just not letting the pace go down too much and making the sprint really long might have done it.
 
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hayneplane

Sep 4, 2017
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Gigs_98 said:
Meanwhile here I am still thinking Pogacar played that finale perfectly. That sprint was Van der Poels to lose so you put him in a situation where he gets scared of the approaching riders and opens up his sprint too early. Didn't work out but the idea was correct. It's funny that everyone always wants those top tier riders to ride for the win and not 2nd place, yet when they do and they lose the 2nd place people call them stupid.
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In this case though we have a highly relevant precedent of Asgreen, who is not noted as a fast finisher, dusting MVDP at the end of Flanders in a 2 up sprint by going long and make it a speed endurance test.

Emulating that was Pogacars best chance as his pure acceleration does not match MVDP.
 
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Gigs_98

Gigs_98

Feb 18, 2015
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Red Rick said:
I don't think you add much tactical options by letting the chase come back if you time it so that they're back right when the sprint starts.

It's all hindsight obviously, but just not letting the pace go down too much and making the sprint really long might have done it.
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There is no way Pogacar starts the sprint from far out with MvdP on his wheel and wins. There was a way that MvdP starts the sprint from far out and Pogacar can come around him on the last meters, but that only ever happens if MvdP is forced to start the sprint too early because of approaching riders.

Look, I'm not saying Pogacar would have won either way. If you go over the final climb with a significantly better sprinter the reason for not winning should probably be searched for on that final climb and not in the sprint. All I'm saying is that what Pogacar did was probably his best shot at winning in a situation where that chance was really small anyway.
 
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Netserk

Netserk

Apr 30, 2011
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Gigs_98 said:
Fair enough, the sprint was not well executed but then there is also no way he could have ridden those final 250m and come away with the victory. Just didn't have the legs. But aside from that I think the discord about this finish has always been about how Pogacar messed up by letting the others come back, not about the sprint itself. And I think using the second group as leverage against VdP was literally the only path to victory he had left.
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They still had a gap with 250 m to go. Had Pogi been the first to start sprinting, he may have managed to get a bit more up to speed before Van der Poel also launched. No, I don't think he stood a chance no matter what, Van der Poel was too much in control and executed the finish flawlessly. But the only rider you can criticise in the last km is Pogi.
 
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Poursuivant

Poursuivant

Jun 7, 2011
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Salvarani

Oct 15, 2017
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Pog chance was to make Van Der Poel start early, but he didnt fell for it. VDP kept his cool. Maybe learning from his own mistakes vs Asgreen.

Criticising Pog is just hilarious in that situation, especially after Van Baarle irregular sprint. Pog tried to win and was willing to gamble in a situation where his chance to win was very slim or next to non-existent at that point.

He came back though and set the record straight like a true champion the year after. Like he has done in other races as well. GOAT.
 
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Peyroteo94

Peyroteo94

Mar 20, 2022
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Salvarani said:
Pog chance was to make Van Der Poel start early, but he didnt fell for it. VDP kept his cool. Maybe learning from his own mistakes vs Asgreen.

Criticising Pog is just hilarious in that situation, especially after Van Baarle irregular sprint. Pog tried to win and was willing to gamble in a situation where his chance to win was very slim or next to non-existent at that point.

He came back though and set the record straight like a true champion the year after. Like he has done in other races as well. GOAT.
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Most of them are saying Pogacar is the one to blame for how poorly he managed the last 300m but don't tell if the sprint by Van Baarle was regular or not. And that is the point of this conversation.
 
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