Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[fmk_RoI]

Probably no one in this forum remembers the last time a TdF winner is head to head with cobble big boys.

Ah poor Geraint, I knew no one would remember him. He was right to change career and become an author. I wonder what became of him...

 

[topcat]

You're probably old enough to remember having watched, but isn't the last Tour winner to have actually won a cobbled classic Hinault, not Merckx?

Yes, in 1981. There’s a few of us here who were experts back then.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Yes, in 1981. There’s a few of us here who were experts back then.

I'm just a fan of revisionist history, where we erase the parts of our past that don't fit the narrative we want to believe in.

 

[Ripper]

It was a good appetizer on whats to come next weekend.

Pog was the only one trying in the end, but was closed down immediately in the finale. Hard to tell how strong the other guys were. Both seemed content with it ending in a sprint and not going for a big attack. Either not having the best day or just wanting to perserve energy for future endeavors.

Ronde will be a tougher race. Maybe a better chance to go solo for Pog. He was very close to drop MVDP last year, by the looks of it. We will see.

Wut wut?

 

[Lequack]

Wut wut?

He said: Pog was the only one trying in the end

 

[jmdirt]

You're probably old enough to remember having watched, but isn't the last Tour winner to have actually won a cobbled classic Hinault, not Merckx?

BH did all his damage in the late '70s-mid '80s so I'm definitely old enough, but we only got the TdF in the USA back then.

 

[Sciatic]

True, but Thomas wasn't yet a gc rider in 2015. He was already a decent climber, but no more a gc contender than someone like Van Aert is today. Once he focused on gc racing he never again contended on the cobbles.

Wiggins meanwhile completely stopped riding for gc after 2013 and became more of a TT specialist. Also, while he did get a top 10 in PR once, he was never really a force in his attempts there. I feel like if you name him you could just as well name Nibali, who at least had his shot at the Ronde when he was still a gc contender.

So I guess technically you are right that there have been TdF winners near the front of cobbles races, but really, none of those performances compare with Pogacars.

It is was a year before he won his 1st Tour, but in 1985 Lemond was 7th in Ronde and 4th at Roubaix. That’s still not as impressive as what Pogacar is doing.

 

[jmdirt]

I'm just a fan of revisionist history, where we erase the parts of our past that don't fit the narrative we want to believe in.

You call it revisionist, I call it...what were we talking about?

CRS!

 

[Tonton]

It's funny that Hinault's name comes up, and since Merckx's name has been high-jacked ...

First E3: Tadej came in there with an axe, willing and able to shake the tree or cut it down. Wout and Matthieu could have watched each other a little bit too much on the final attack, Pog's gamble was a smart one in my view, I like the move and I also like the spot.

Tadej Pogcar is absolutely amazing...heck, he's the only one who can roglic Roglic. If he can keep his puppy dog instincts in check, not chase every single butterfly, he's pretty much unstoppable. And that's a tribute to Wout, that win for him must be so special...

 

[fmk_RoI]

BH did all his damage in the late '70s-mid '80s so I'm definitely old enough, but we only got the TdF in the USA back then.

That would have been the last hurrah before the arrival of big(ger) money and the whole points system Verbruggen introduced brought in more specialisation, wouldn't it? LeMond and Fignon were also going toe-to-toe with the cobblers, not just focusing solely on the Tour, weren't they? Teams seem to have grown so big and strong now they can afford to let their GC riders take on the classics as well, turning back the years.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Pog's gamble was a smart one in my view, I like the move and I also like the spot.

It was what you expect the runt of the break to do, get away in the final five kilometres and avoid getting whipped in the sprint.

 

[fmk_RoI]

CRS!

Except what they heard on Eurosport, I guess.

 

[hayneplane]

It might need something crazy like an attack from a long way out, before the usual hills where the difference is made. I’m sure today has gave him and UAE something to think about for next Sunday.

He needs a team. Both WVA and MVDP had very strong domestiques deep into the race forcing Pogacar to do far more chasing.

UAE need to try and get Wellens/Trentin in a break 120km out in the Ronde.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Good performance today at E3.

 

[Ripper]

He said: Pog was the only one trying in the end

And demonstrating a bit of cognitive dissonance

 

[Salvarani]

What does that even mean? He did what he had to do in order to avoid being beaten into third by the other two. He failed and finished third. Neither of the others needed to escape before the finish, they needed to stop anyone else escaping before the finish. Pog was the only one trying in the end? Who brought him back each time he tried, the magic breakaway pixie? They were all trying.

Trying (to attack), obviously.

Of course he had to... the others was content on relying on their sprint. Thats what I said?

I wasnt saying what you seem to have interpreted all on your own. That they wasnt trying.

Fixating on one sentence instead of looking at the context of what was said, is never a good idea.

If you think I was downplaying the others or something, that was not the intention at all.

 

[Salvarani]

Wut wut?

He tried to attack at least 2-3 times in the last 3km.

You also seem to not understand the full context or what was actually said. Thought you were smarter.

I wasnt saying the others werent trying. They played to their strengths to try to win this race. Taking their chances in a sprint, knowing it was gonna be between the two of them and Pog likely getting third if he wasnt able to drop them. Which he couldnt do yesterday, he was closed down by them both.

 

[Salvarani]

And demonstrating a bit of cognitive dissonance

This is just rude... and ironically, you fit the bill better.

 

[Ripper]

He tried to attack at least 2-3 times in the last 3km.

You also seem to not understand the full context or what was actually said. Thought you were smarter.

I wasnt saying the others werent trying. They played to their strengths to try to win this race. Taking their chances in a sprint, knowing it was gonna be between the two of them and Pog likely getting third if he wasnt able to drop them. Which he couldnt do yesterday, he was closed down by them both.

But that is not what you said

 

[Ripper]

This is just rude... and ironically, you fit the bill better.

Apologies for being rude

 

[Salvarani]

But that is not what you said

Thats not what I meant, which should be obvious if you had continue to read. Maybe you have trouble comprehending too many words. I wrote the above in my first post...

I also didnt say the others werent trying.

 

[Netserk]

That would have been the last hurrah before the arrival of big(ger) money and the whole points system Verbruggen introduced brought in more specialisation, wouldn't it? LeMond and Fignon were also going toe-to-toe with the cobblers, not just focusing solely on the Tour, weren't they? Teams seem to have grown so big and strong now they can afford to let their GC riders take on the classics as well, turning back the years.

I'm curious about the economic history of the sport. Do you know how much budgets changed back then?

 

[Panda Claws]

Any chances of him winning RVV (Ronde van Vlaanderen) in the way Gilbert did?

 

[Elos Anjos]

Spartacus is not particularly brilliant. Even disappointing....but he has some insights on Tadej Pogacar babyface revolution.

Fabian Cancellara's Classics column - Wout van Aert sits Mathieu van der Poel down to turn weakness into strength

Our expert analyst dissects E3 Saxo Classic, poring over the sprint finish and asking: what kind of rider is Tadej Pogacar?

www.cyclingnews.com

I have never seen a Grand Tour rider attacking like this at the Classics. Would we see Jonas Vingegaard doing what Tadej did today? No chance. The last rider to win Harelbeke and the Tour de France was Geraint Thomas but he had to make choices and specialise in a certain area.

Tadej's style is just non-typical for a Grand Tour rider – this way of moving around, of powering over the cobbles, of forcing so hard on the climbs. He is a natural. To me, he looks more like a one-day Classics rider than a Grand Tour rider at the moment.

So the question is... is Tadej going full gas to all these races because in summer he sees he has trouble with the heat and the long mountains compared to his competition, which is Jonas Vingegaard. Does he just love doing these races? Does he see it as just another chance to win races?

I raced to win bike races and this is the same as what he does. I have a lot of respect for that.

Whatever kind of rider he is, he is good for the sport.

 

[Netserk]

Any chances of him winning RVV (Ronde van Vlaanderen) in the way Gilbert did?

No. Sagan and Van Avermaet didn't move before Taaienberg iirc, as QS had numerous cards behind. If Pogi goes super early, the strongest teams will commit to pull him back.